Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Gate gal]

OMG...so Sam basically confirmed it did happen! Not a very appropriate scene IMO.

No, she didn't say it happened. It isn't truly cannon unless Sam says the words. I will never believe it happened.

Lord Minister, Sam is a strong, intellegent woman and an excellent role model for women (as is AT herself). That's why she has such a large numbser of female fans. Of course, she is also a very beautiful woman, so there are many male fans as well. For me, as a mother of a little girl, I am grateful for the role model Amanda is for my daughter. So many celebrities are far from appropriate role models.

[Gate gal]

Yeah except I didn't consider the look on Sam's face as a smile at the end of the scene. I saw it more as a grimace. Personally I think the writers should be hog tied and left on a fire ant mound for writing that scene, but it just goes to prove my theory we have been living in an alternate reality since the end of season eight. That's my explanation and I'm sticking to it!!

Hmmm, if RDA ever decided to come back full time then the PTB could call this an alternate reality (Or alernate time line to be more specific), and this AU SG1 could go back in time to fix the problem. They could stop SG1 prime from taking the ZPM and send SG1 prime back in their time/puddle jumper. AU SG1 could be stranded in ancient Egypt and season 9 could be a do over. Jack could stay in charge of the base, Sam would keep her command, and Cameron could join her team (sorry, I like him). The Ori would never know of our existence, and the PTB could give us another bad guy to fight! (Of course, Atlantis would be in big trouble, but that's not our problem!)

[AmberLM]

Hmmm, if RDA ever decided to come back full time then the PTB could call this an alternate reality (Or alernate time line to be more specific), and this AU SG1 could go back in time to fix the problem. They could stop SG1 prime from taking the ZPM and send SG1 prime back in their time/puddle jumper. AU SG1 could be stranded in ancient Egypt and season 9 could be a do over. Jack could stay in charge of the base, Sam would keep her command, and Cameron could join her team (sorry, I like him). The Ori would never know of our existence, and the PTB could give us another bad guy to fight! (Of course, Atlantis would be in big trouble, but that's not our problem!)

As much as I would like to see RDA return full time it's never going to happen (and I completely understand and respect his reasons for it too!)

Besides, don't you think it would be a bit like Dallas and a bit of an easy way out of the mess that TPTB have gotten themselves into? They started this whole thing they should follow it through now IMO as much as I hated S9. They could never "fix" S9 in my eyes, I'm just hoping they can mend some badly damaged fences in S10.

[astrogeologist]

Regarding Seasons 9+ and the leadership of SG-1

Spoiler:

ShimmeringStar said it wonderfully in her post

I think many of us, before the rumors and leaks about BB coming to SG started circulating, were like Amanda -- we assumed that Sam Carter would be shown going through the process of officially taking command of SG1 in S9 and this was going to be one hell of a kickbutt show that would be made even more unique by having such a wonderful female lead at its helm. SG was already a series that had already given viewers the notion that a female soldier on a mixed gender field unit was normal and that for Sam to demonstrate and exert leadership qualities and capabilities was not *extraordinary.* *grins* I mean she is... but you know what I mean!

We assumed in the logical progression of things, that she would be shown in a position of leadership --- she was an experienced soldier with 8 years of intensive field experience, and on top of that, a talented scientist who'd grown beyond her own field of expertise and into others. How would you not want to promote that kind of skill and talent at the SGC? You sure as heck wouldn't want to lose it to R&D. (And monetarily -- all the time and money invested in training this person, in developing the skills through off-world misions, and finding that you've got on your hands a person who's put 110% of her life and soul into the program and from who you gain a benefit one hundred fold - you want all that to just walk away? )

- post 47815 by ShimmeringStar

They are following a formula

The Lead Male Formula

AT said that Shephard is the mirror of Mitchell in terms of their roles on Atlantis and SG-1. The article recognized their positions (lead males of their respective shows).

Ben Browder is actually given the number '1' on his scripts. AT is given the number '2', CJ is '3', etc. I would venture to guess that MS is '4' (to go along with his one season departure and then return).

AT said that her role as Carter is the mirror of McKay. (I really hate that comparison, but I think she's referring to the 'science geek'/technobabble role... ...

TPTB said that they wanted to 'go back to the early years of SG-1'... who had a clue that that meant putting Sam back into the role of following the Lead Male CO/leader of the team?

I thought it meant exploring new worlds through the Stargate, team missions, team episodes, fresh new enthusiasm, cools stories, etc. I was blindsided by the fact that they meant the Lead Male in Charge Formula (they started the series with RDA as their one actor who was well known, and banked on his name and popularity to help draw in viewers).

OK, so now that they went and did what they did for Season 9

Spoiler:

Am I the only one who's stunned that there are *no* headlines (that I have found) where anyone is expressing outrage or surprise at the sexism displayed and promoted by the Stargate francise?

I am stunned. I find it difficult to believe that there aren't any articles out there denouncing what was done in terms of the leadership and the messages that it sends and promotes.

I have noticed and seen more articles promoting Stargate over the past couple of years that I had ever noticed before. Now that Star Trek is no longer producing new shows, it seems like Stargate is all over the TV Guides and the newspapers and the internet (AOL, etc.). It's being called 'The Hot New Show' and such. They've made much out of the 10th season and the 200th episode, and the record for the longest running scifi show, and the additions of the actors from Stargate, new blood, etc.

But I haven't seen anyone speak up and point out what was done in terms of the leadership of the flagship team of this 'Hot New Show'.

And, frankly, I find that weird and disturbing.

It makes me wonder if... the folks writing the articles in TV Guide, for AOL and such... haven't truly watched the series.... But rather, they are jumping on the publicity band-wagon of the longest running scifi show... I mean, it *must* have some redeeming qualities to have been around so long and to be able to still keep going when workhorses like Star Trek are closing up shop? Right?

In other words, are the folks who are writing these articles in TV Guide, for AOL and such, are they actually viewers of the show - who've watched the past 9+ years of episodes, or are they just working from a few pieces of episodes that they've caught?... or just trailers and teasers?... or are they just working from the publicity releases?

Because, if there were truly writers out there who had been watching the show over the years, then surely at least *some* of them would be commenting on the choice to write Carter out of command in Season 9! At least *some* of those writers would pose questions to the public - and put it out there where it belongs - in the light.

---------

Many folks keep saying that they want the writers and TPTB to provide a rationalization for Carter

Spoiler:

not having command, and for Mitchell retaining it. That they want to see how and why Carter would be OK with such a thing.

I disagree with this vehemently.

The fact that it *hasn't* been nicely packaged and sold to the viewers is the *only* honest thing about this nastiness.

It shouldn't be rationalized away in the script.
It shouldn't be written away that Carter somehow is OK with it or doesn't want to lead the team.

It wasn't done for Carter.

It was done because they were following a Lead Male Formula.
That's the honest truth.

And you can't write that into the script, so please don't let them write in some other garbage - because once they do, a lot of folks are going to accept it. Once it's in the script, it becomes canon - and it's going to get thrown into the faces of Carter fans repeatedly and continuously. Carter's not in command because she doesn't want it (yeah, right). Carter's not in command because she's not the best qualified... Carter's not in command because Mitchell's more qualified.... Carter's not in command because she wants to concentrate on her science... ya dee ya dee yah! Gag! All just contrivances because the show's PTB wanted to follow the Lead Male Formula and they didn't have the guts to write a show where the team was led by a female!

Please, please don't let it be allright that they write something into the scripts that somehow 'explains' or 'justifies' what they did to the character when it was truly something that had nothing to do with the character's development and everything to do with their perception of $$$.

-------

Quite often AT will let the fans in on stuff that she uses to help herself understand a scene or an episode - the 'backstory' that she will create... such as Grace being Sam's inner child, or that the house in Ascension was once her fathers/her family home...

But not once has AT said what she uses to explain to herself why Carter would be OK with Mitchell having command of SG-1 instead of Carter.

I like that honesty.
I like it a lot.

It lets the truth stand on it's own.

ETA (Edited To Add): putting a rationalization into the script would allow them to effectively 'sweep this under the rug' - and that would be deplorable. As long as it's not rationalized into an episode script, then it's not hidden, it's not 'swept under the rug', and folks can't truly justify what was done to the character, or in terms of the message regarding women in leadership roles. If they rationalize it within the episode scripts, then they get to duck the reality of what they did - they would get off with little or no consequences, without having to even admit what they did (unless they felt magnanimous enough to do so).

[Uber]

As much as I would like to see RDA return full time it's never going to happen (and I completely understand and respect his reasons for it too!)

Besides, don't you think it would be a bit like Dallas and a bit of an easy way out of the mess that TPTB have gotten themselves into? They started this whole thing they should follow it through now IMO as much as I hated S9. They could never "fix" S9 in my eyes, I'm just hoping they can mend some badly damaged fences in S10.

But isn't that what they did to Season 6? Set the reset button?

Jonas who???

[minigeek]

But not once has AT said what she uses to explain to herself why Carter would be OK with Mitchell having command of SG-1 instead of Carter.

I like that honesty.
I like it a lot.

Because I don't think she is (okay with it). I think she's frustrated by it, herself, and in true AT fashion, she's not going to publicly downput anyone over it, but neither is she going to glowingly endorse it either (which I think does speak to her integrity and is very telling).

You're so right, Astrogeo (I wish I could green you but ... alas). If the writers give Sam some kind of "acceptance" speech, it would ring false for her character and it would be disrespectful to everything she's become.

Here's hoping that never, ever, happens in canon.

minigeek

[Gate gal]

But isn't that what they did to Season 6? Set the reset button?

Jonas who???

Speaking of Jonas (slightly off topic), there is a pole on GW. His fans are trying to get him back. I don't have a link, but its under characters.

AmberLM, I actually almost wrote "like Dallas" in my thread.

[AmberLM]

But isn't that what they did to Season 6? Set the reset button?

Jonas who???

Yes but Jonas aside, a lot of significant things happened in S6 such as Jack being blended with a Tok'ra and being tortured by Ba'al (although the fallout from that has been dealt with much better in the new fandemonium novels than on the show IMO!) There was also the introduction of the USS Prometheus and the Ancient weapon on Dakara. None of that has been forgotten so it's not like the whole timeline has been completely re-written.

Gate gal: Hee, hee great minds, eh?

[AmberLM]

Because I don't think she is (okay with it). I think she's frustrated by it, herself, and in true AT fashion, she's not going to publicly downput anyone over it, but neither is she going to glowingly endorse it either (which I think does speak to her integrity and is very telling).

You're so right, Astrogeo (I wish I could green you but ... alas). If the writers give Sam some kind of "acceptance" speech, it would ring false for her character and it would be disrespectful to everything she's become.

Here's hoping that never, ever, happens in canon.

minigeek

I agree with both yourself and Astro 100%! But it's one of the reasons we love Amanda, right? Because she's classy enough not to stoop to their level and make a big public fuss about it (which I think she would be quite within her rights to do IMO!)

Yeah, well as I've said all along, my loyalties lie with Amanda and SG-1. In that order.

[minigeek]

I agree with both yourself and Astro 100%! But it's one of the reasons we love Amanda, right? Because she's classy enough not to stoop to their level and make a big public fuss about it (which I think she would be quite within her rights to do IMO!)

Yeah, well as I've said all along, my loyalties lie with Amanda and SG-1. In that order.

Yep. That's one of the primary reasons I admire Amanda, also. Her integrity is the foremost reason of all. Very few 'celebrities' are able to tow the line between personal freedom of expression and the very real responsibility they've bought into by choosing to be a public icon (and it is a choice). Amanda takes her responsibility very seriously and though she does express herself honestly and with dignity, she seems ever-aware that what she says can (and does) have the potential to impact other people both professionally and among her fans. She's articulate and she's forthright, but she cares about what she says and how she says it (whether it might be fair to her personal freedom of speech at that particular moment or not). She puts other people's feelings first and that sentiment shines through every time she speaks in public and in every transcript I've read where she's been in an interview. It's not easy to do that or to maintain the kind of constant awareness that she does, but it's such an admirable quality to hold. For that, probably most of all, she continues to have my tremendous admiration.

mg

[Uber]

Yep. That's one of the primary reasons I admire Amanda, also. Her integrity is the foremost reason of all. Very few 'celebrities' are able to tow the line between personal freedom of expression and the very real responsibility they've bought into by choosing to be a public icon (and it is a choice). Amanda takes her responsibility very seriously and though she does express herself honestly and with dignity, she seems ever-aware that what she says can (and does) have the potential to impact other people both professionally and among her fans. She's articulate and she's forthright, but she cares about what she says and how she says it (whether it might be fair to her personal freedom of speech at that particular moment or not). She puts other people's feelings first and that sentiment shines through every time she speaks in public and in every transcript I've read where she's been in an interview. It's not easy to do that or to maintain the kind of constant awareness that she does, but it's such an admirable quality to hold. For that, probably most of all, she continues to have my tremendous admiration.

mg

You know...you're right. She is a great person, isn't she?

Maybe we should consider becoming Amanda Tapping fans!

[Tracy Jane]

You know...you're right. She is a great person, isn't she?

Maybe we should consider becoming Amanda Tapping fans!

Amanda who?

[Skydiver]

to me that is the saddest statement of it all, whomever up there that said that, here is sam, the better qualified FEMALE being shunted aside so that the lesser qualified MALE can lead her, which is very blatant sexism, and has just been accepted as the natural order of things.

no questions, no wonder, no worries, it's just accepted as normal.

now, what if Sam was a 40 something man of color, who was transferred, then came back to find the lesser qualified, YOUNGER white man was now his boss. Would that have gone unnoticed? Or would the naacp be all over it decrying the racism on the show???

the saddest statement is that this discrimination is so accepted and 'normal' that no one even sees it

[AmberLM]

Yep. That's one of the primary reasons I admire Amanda, also. Her integrity is the foremost reason of all. Very few 'celebrities' are able to tow the line between personal freedom of expression and the very real responsibility they've bought into by choosing to be a public icon (and it is a choice). Amanda takes her responsibility very seriously and though she does express herself honestly and with dignity, she seems ever-aware that what she says can (and does) have the potential to impact other people both professionally and among her fans. She's articulate and she's forthright, but she cares about what she says and how she says it (whether it might be fair to her personal freedom of speech at that particular moment or not). She puts other people's feelings first and that sentiment shines through every time she speaks in public and in every transcript I've read where she's been in an interview. It's not easy to do that or to maintain the kind of constant awareness that she does, but it's such an admirable quality to hold. For that, probably most of all, she continues to have my tremendous admiration.

mg

I told a non-Stargate fan friend pretty much the exact same thing when she asked me why I liked AT so much to which I got the response "Oh, she just knows how to play to her audience, I bet she doesn't really believe all of the stuff she says!" - needless to say I was shocked that a) my friend was so cynical (I should've expected it tho, she's a real 'glass-is-half-empty' kinda gal) and b) I realised that so many actors do that, hence her pessimism.

I thought about that for ages and I came to the conclusion that I do believe Amanda to be sincere (it helps a bit that I've met her twice since the discussion ) and that, yes, she does sometimes put words out there to provoke a reaction (like the 'TPTB told me that don't know what to do with Sam') but you know what? I trust her judgement enough that when she does ocasionally choose to make a provocative statement like that it's for a damn good reason and I think that as fans it's our duty to stand up for our beloved character and our favourite person and say when we think that TPTB have gone too far when Amanda is restricted as to what she can and can't say as part of her moral obligation as a cast member.

That's just how I feel about it anyway.

[AmberLM]

to me that is the saddest statement of it all, whomever up there that said that, here is sam, the better qualified FEMALE being shunted aside so that the lesser qualified MALE can lead her, which is very blatant sexism, and has just been accepted as the natural order of things.

no questions, no wonder, no worries, it's just accepted as normal.

now, what if Sam was a 40 something man of color, who was transferred, then came back to find the lesser qualified, YOUNGER white man was now his boss. Would that have gone unnoticed? Or would the naacp be all over it decrying the racism on the show???

the saddest statement is that this discrimination is so accepted and 'normal' that no one even sees it

I can't green you Sky but excellent post, I couldn't agree more, it is indeed a sorry state of affairs!

BTW, I wasn't aware that the NAACP still existed in the US. We studied it as part of my GCSE history course about 1960s American Civil Rights and I thought it was one of the most emotive topics we studied. It made for some insightful class discussions. Thanks for the (unintentional) info.