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    Originally posted by Skydiver
    There's nothing wrong in criticizing what the writers have done to sam. believe me, i've done it a time or ten

    but there is a difference between criticizing and bashing.

    the folks that criticize can usually find something redeeming in each episode...but others, it's all bad all the time and - in the case of some - they pursue sam with a vengeance that is inversely proportional to the devotion they express towards protecting and justifying every single action of their own particular favorite character

    for example, in enemies/exodus, teal'c screwed up, royally. his revenge nearly got his team killed. now an example would be a pro-teal'c/anti-sam fan going to great lengths to defend teal'c's actions in his jaffa revenge while using that same passion to tear sam to pieces

    teal'c will get the benefit of the doubt while sam will get just the opposite
    Not only is there nothing wrong in criticizing the actions a character takes...it is IMHO an integral part of fandom. I don't agree with everything Sam does and I have openly criticized some of her more egregious errors in judgment...At the same time, I believe that most of the mistakes she makes are in character...based on her personality or past experiences. Gemini is the flashpoint I think because for Sam, RepliCarter personified the mistake she made betraying Fifth...so she was even more prone to errors in judgment. RepliCarter knew exactly how she felt and knew exactly how to exploit Sam's humanity to her advantage.

    But the line is exactly where you place it...criticizing vs. bashing. One is constructive the other destructive.

    Sam has never demonstrated weakness to me. Has she made mistakes? Of course. Has she had moments of doubt? Undoubtedly...and like I posted in my diatribe last night, even Jack doubted his own abilities...I didn't hear the masses scream for his head on a platter for being "weak."

    I hope I didn't offend anyone...I guess my ire goes up when people trash someone I kinda view as my hero figure...

    ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

    Comment


      Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
      Not only is there nothing wrong in criticizing the actions a character takes...it is IMHO an integral part of fandom. I don't agree with everything Sam does and I have openly criticized some of her more egregious errors in judgment...At the same time, I believe that most of the mistakes she makes are in character...based on her personality or past experiences. Gemini is the flashpoint I think because for Sam, RepliCarter personified the mistake she made betraying Fifth...so she was even more prone to errors in judgment. RepliCarter knew exactly how she felt and knew exactly how to exploit Sam's humanity to her advantage.

      But the line is exactly where you place it...criticizing vs. bashing. One is constructive the other destructive.

      Sam has never demonstrated weakness to me. Has she made mistakes? Of course. Has she had moments of doubt? Undoubtedly...and like I posted in my diatribe last night, even Jack doubted his own abilities...I didn't hear the masses scream for his head on a platter for being "weak."

      I hope I didn't offend anyone...I guess my ire goes up when people trash someone I kinda view as my hero figure...

      Would Sam get the same bashing she is getting now if she had been written as a happily married woman?

      I think some of the bashing comes from people who some how feel threatened by her. She is beautiful, smart, strong, and successful.
      Odo's last wishes: cremate me, put me in my bucket, then shoot me through the wormhole.


      Rogue

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        Originally posted by astrogeologist
        I hope they find something else in life that does make them happy.Here's to some strong season 9 storylines that feature our gal Sam in ways that no one can dispute as anything but the hero that she is! Oh, yeah - and let her show some happiness too... some big smiles... and some humor... and that she's comfortable with herself and her life and her command.
        I whole-heartedly agree with you here AstroG. I so hope they allow Sam to be happy for once. I really miss seeing her smile. She's had far too much angst in her life over the past few years and she truly deserves better.

        Besides there's a whole slew of new characters to spread the angst around.

        I just pray the writers don't plaque Sam with a season of wanna-be love interest( I refuse to say old boyfriends because in my mind Sam never showed interest nor encouraged any of these men to fall for her ), and I'm truly sick of the fact that people make it seem as if she's left a trail of used and discarded men behind her.

        Amanda may have wanted the writers to treat Sam just like one of the guys, but from day one they have gone out of their way to make sure that Sam is definitely seen as an extremely desirable female, regardless if she's kitted out with full combat gear. Perhaps it's her 'doe eyes' and her infectious smile, or maybe it's just her compassionate nature and ability to make every one feel at ease around her; but whatever it is, there is undeniably something about Sam that draws men to her like a moth to a flame.

        I just hope with all the upcoming spoilers,
        Spoiler:
        with Orlin, Barrett and possibly Joe
        that the storylines have a lot more meat in them than whether or not Sam has a boyfriend.

        Kat

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          Originally posted by Rogue
          I think some of the bashing comes from people who some how feel threatened by her. She is beautiful, smart, strong, and successful.
          I think there may be some truth to that, Rogue. I don't pretend to understand the psychology of why people might feel threatened by her... but women in the fire service run into it all the time, and I think Sam is in a similar (if fictional) position (ie. a strong, competent woman in an untraditional role).

          My LJ

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            Originally posted by Strix varia
            A fleeting thought.... If I were Amanda, I'd be interested in knowing a little bit about the people who produced this massive tome...

            Do you think a demographic survey would be in order? I'm thinking something along the lines of letting AT know that we aren't all just a bunch of raving whackos. Although, based on the quality of the book, perhaps that will be self-evident?

            Anyway, I personally find the composition of those actively posting on the list to be rather fascinating.

            Teachers (college professors, K-12): Astrogeologist, ChopinGal, jckfan55, tsaxlady, NearlyCircular, dipsofjazz
            Students: deepspace, Charlie, Aeromathlete, Matt G
            Editors: Carterslave, Strix varia (collectively known as the Sam/Jan fan contingent)
            Accountants: Coley, ChevronSeven
            Software Programmer: Rogue
            Homeschool mom (and computer programmer): ForeverSG-1
            Webdesigner/graphic artist: UberSG-1Fan
            Media Production Assistant: Skydiver
            Media Relations: sg-1fanintn
            Actress/Soldier: MajorSam
            Registered Nurse/Educator: pittsburghgirl
            Telephony/Computer Support: 1speed4Sam
            Museum Assistant: Tara3583
            Retired Data Administrator/Database Designer: SamFan31
            Doctor of Internal Medicine and Psychiatry: Lida
            Other professionals: Tok'ra Hostess (has clients), ????

            No clue: MajorSal, Agent Dark, Gatebee, AmberMoon, miscellaneous lurkers

            Representing 3 continents (North America, Europe, and Australia)

            Spanning in age from teens to.... how old *is* our wise elder?

            The majority of whom are female...(grand exceptions that I know of: AD, Carterslave, 1speed, and Matt G)

            Who/what am I leaving out?

            I hope noone is offended by this, particulary if I've categorized someone improperly. I'm doing this mostly from swiss-cheese-like memory. It is interesting to me, though... I've been going through past messages looking for photo captions, but I'm reading a bunch of posts, clicking on people's profiles, etc., just getting a feel for the list as a whole. What a cool group of people!
            I am currently at Uni, doing an IT course, but how long that'll last... who knows

            Happy Birthday Charlie!!

            Comment


              Originally posted by NearlyCircular
              Wow, Strix, we've been thinking along the same lines. As I've been thinking about a message to include in the collection, I keep coming back to what a diverse group this is, and how we're from all over the world, literally. I thought it might be fun to include a map indicating our locations. I found a great map of the earth from space at night, and I put on blue jello icons for some of the locations I already know, just to give you an example.

              I'm linking to the map, instead of posting it, because it's too wide to fit into the thread. The original image is even bigger, so we could include a little more detail if we want. Samandans acrosss the world


              I'm sure some of the photo-shop pros could do a much better job, and if they want to take over, that's fine, I'll be happy to send you the map or let you come up with a different one. I know people may not want to give out their specific locations online, but something like southwest US or central Australia would be plenty good enough. And of course anyone who doesn't want to be included wouldn't have to be.

              NC(admitting to being not all that elderly at age 51 and certainly not as wise as I'd like to be )
              Wow! You all keep amazing me!!! The map with the blue jello is pure genius.

              I still can't dl the "tome" though, my pc freezes. I'll keep working on it.
              On fighting:
              Farrah: "A swordsman does not fear death, if he dies with honor."
              Dr. Who: "Then he's an idiot."

              Comment


                I keep hearing about all these Sam bashers in the fandom, and I don't doubt that they are there. But then other people talk about how Sam is one of the more popular characters, and I have a hard time figuring out, on the grand scale of things, just where Sam actually stands in terms of popularity. Now, I know that fandoms tend to have their own skewed dynamics that don't always reflect the average viewer... Even so, I don't think there's any question that Sam is probably the most controversial character.

                But, I would guess that, on average, Jack was probably the most popular character, followed by Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. Anyone else have a better feel for this? I realize that this is a Sam list, and she's definitely MY favorite character... but what about average viewers... the folks who watch the show in syndication, and don't read the fanfic or visit websites?
                Last edited by Strix varia; 17 May 2005, 04:01 PM.

                My LJ

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                  Originally posted by Strix varia
                  I keep hearing about all these Sam bashers in the fandom, and I don't doubt that they are there. But then other people talk about how Sam is one of the more popular characters, and I have a hard time figuring out, on the grand scale of things, just where Sam actually stands in terms of popularity. Now, I know that fandoms tend to have their own skewed dynamics that don't always reflect the average viewer... Even so, I don't think there's any question that Sam is probably the most controversial character.

                  But, I would guess that, on average, Jack was probably the most popular character, followed by Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. Anyone else have a better feel for this? I realize that this is a Sam list, and she's definitely MY favorite character... but what about average viewers... the folks who watch the show in syndication, and don't read the fanfic or visit websites?
                  Hmm. That's a really good question.

                  My guess is that you're right with putting Jack at the top because RDA had a much more distinguished career with the whole MacGyver series....

                  He used to be my absolute fav and I kinda had the others tied for second. But then with RDA's reduced schedule, I got to know Sam a lot more thanks to the Sam-centric episodes and she became my fav.

                  So for me it's Sam on top with Jack coming in a close second, then Teal'c and lastly Daniel....

                  But as for the average/non-forum addicted/has no clue what a fanfic is kinda fan...I honestly don't know...

                  ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ChopinGal


                    I've been trying to PM deepspace all day and my messages were not going through ... I was really bothered by that because I didn't want her to think that I did not hear what she privately had to share with me. But, now, if she reads what you just wrote, she should realize that, even someone we sometimes seem to put on a pedestal has her own self doubts and worries at time. Amanda is as human as the rest of us. If she can be overly self critical at times and also injured by what others say or write about her, then we don't have to feel so "all alone" either. Everyone of us, no matter our age or position in life, has our moments of downtime. What's special about AT is that she comes across as a loving person who picks herself up and goes on ... she's given that to us in her portrayal of Sam Carter too. So, by getting hooked on this amazing woman, we've maybe, just maybe, have begun to imitate some of her more positive traits. A win/win situation for all!

                    Thank you, Kat, and thank you, Amanda, for some really positive role modeling!

                    amanda blows me away. i don't want this to come off wrong, but i've got a bit of a crush on amanda. not in a sexually attracted to way, but in every other way. i'm not insecure about myself, but i'd love to be her. and besides her being *gorgeous*, she's just as beautiful inside. and that's prob what has made me adore her as much as i do, because amanda is just a truly nice person. that description has lost it's punch i think over time, but i can't think of a better or more fitting description of her. i've never heard one bad thing about her from anyone.

                    reminiscing a bit, i remember meeting her at a con a couple of years ago. after i'd gotten my autograph, i stood around and watched others getting theirs. i knew i'd prob never get this chance of meeting her again (i can't afford cons, and most are too far away for me), so i wanted to get all of my 'meeting my idol' in. so anyways, after the photo/autogs were done, and amanda was getting ready to leave, she looked right at me and thanked me (i'd given her a letter from another fan that she knew about). that eye contact, and her thanking me... it just knocked me out.

                    suffice it to say, i admire amanda with all my heart. she's an excellent role model, because she's truly a nice person.


                    sally
                    sally

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                      [QUOTE=ForeverSg1]Add a Caption:




                      Daniel: "Sam, stop it!"

                      Sam: "Whaaat?"

                      Daniel: "Stop laughing at me!"

                      Jack: "Daniel, stop being a baby."

                      Daniel: "She's picking on me!"

                      *sam snorts*

                      Daniel: "God, she's just like you! You're both 10 years old at times."

                      Sam: "Am not."

                      Daniel: "Yes, you are."

                      Sam: "Nope."

                      Jack: "Actually, Carter, you are."

                      Sam: "Not."

                      Jack: "Are."

                      Sam: "Na."

                      Jack: "Ya."

                      Daniel: "Shut up, both of you!"

                      *sam snickers*

                      Daniel: "Oh, god, grow up!"

                      Teal'c: "DanielJackson, stop being a baby."

                      *sam giggles*




                      sally
                      sally

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                        Originally posted by ChopinGal
                        Psst ... just a whisper, not a shout

                        Soon the word may get out ...

                        Not much fuss at her request

                        So don't do more, just do less ...

                        Even though she'll be forlorn,

                        MajorSal

                        Glad you were born!!


                        Happy Non-Event!!!



                        how can i not respond... thank you.


                        sally
                        sally

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                          Originally posted by deepspace
                          *squeaks*
                          in a very small voice:
                          love ya sal, have a wonderful time.

                          (i couldn't rep you)

                          thank you.


                          sally

                          (i'm keeping this pic )
                          sally

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                            Originally posted by deepspace

                            People please tell me what you truthfully think of this. I wouldn't want this pic to be taken the wrong way or anything. I'm just not sure if the idea is just too plain weird or not.

                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y218/d...ter/impact.jpg


                            i love it, deepspace! it's beautiful.


                            sally
                            sally

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                              Originally posted by majorsal
                              amanda blows me away. i don't want this to come off wrong, but i've got a bit of a crush on amanda. not in a sexually attracted to way, but in every other way. i'm not insecure about myself, but i'd love to be her. and besides her being *gorgeous*, she's just as beautiful inside. and that's prob what has made me adore her as much as i do, because amanda is just a truly nice person. that description has lost it's punch i think over time, but i can't think of a better or more fitting description of her. i've never heard one bad thing about her from anyone.

                              reminiscing a bit, i remember meeting her at a con a couple of years ago. after i'd gotten my autograph, i stood around and watched others getting theirs. i knew i'd prob never get this chance of meeting her again (i can't afford cons, and most are too far away for me), so i wanted to get all of my 'meeting my idol' in. so anyways, after the photo/autogs were done, and amanda was getting ready to leave, she looked right at me and thanked me (i'd given her a letter from another fan that she knew about). that eye contact, and her thanking me... it just knocked me out.

                              suffice it to say, i admire amanda with all my heart. she's an excellent role model, because she's truly a nice person.


                              sally
                              I understand what you're saying. The emotion is a strong one...but unfortunately I think the English language is woefully inadequate when it comes to adjectives to describe it.

                              The best words like "crush" unfortunately imply some sort of sexual or romantic attraction...and even the word "attracted" has that same aire about it which is unfortunate...because that's not how I feel at all. My "attraction" to AT and SC is completely non-sexual and non-romantic but if you can have a non-romantic crush on someone then I guess that would be an apt description of how I feel.

                              The phrase "Hero worship" also has a funny sense about it as well...it seems almost stalkerish. Same with the word "obsessed"...it has a very distinct kind of "restraining order" feel to it. But look at us...in one way or another, we are obsessed with the show and this character/actress (and no, I'm not implying that anyone here would do anything inappropriate...and I'm fairly certain that anyone trying to stalk Sam Carter would find themselves at the business end of a P90).

                              I look up to AT for her dignity, her character, her dedication, her grace and her humor and I admire Sam for her strength and her honor and her compassion. She is, to the best description I can muster, a hero figure for me.

                              Sometimes I wish people would make up words to describe these emotions more succinctly...

                              I propose the Royal Scribe invent an appropriate word or phrase for use in such matters...

                              Last edited by Uber; 17 May 2005, 05:50 PM.

                              ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                              Comment


                                speaking in broad, broad, broad generalizations here, for the most part you have

                                jack fans
                                daniel fans
                                jack/daniel fans
                                jack/sam fans
                                sam fans

                                in all honesty, teal'c fans, to the point of web sites/fic/artwork are few and far between

                                there are jack fans who like sam/jack, jack fans who like jack/daniel, jack fans who don't want any pairing, etc, etc, etc

                                Now, again, i'm speaking in broad generalities and not aiming at anyone, most of the sam bashers that i've noticed are also daniel or jack/daniel fans. There are a few jack fans who also enjoy bashing sam

                                reasons can be wide and varied. maybe they see sam as a threat to thier preferred character or pairing. maybe there is some jealousy, admitted or subconscious (face it, Sam is the co-worker any woman would hate for her husband to work with. good looking, smart, nice...the perfect threat)

                                I do think, for some, it can boil down to 'ok, so my favorite screwed up so let's see how i can put the blame onto someone else' and sam becomes the fall guy
                                Where in the World is George Hammond?


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