Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[scifithinker]

I didn't even realize I was a SF fan until I was well into my 20s and considering going to my first Shore Leave. Sure I read science fiction, but I didn't think much about it because I seemed to read everything. Meanwhile, my family was chanting "you're weird" to me on a regular basis.

I've hung out with my share of geeky middle-aged guys (even dated a couple of them), and the kids who belonged to the SciFi club at my last school thought I was really cool for going to their movie marathons when I didn't have to. For the most part, however, I've found fandom to be pretty diverse and an excellent reason to haul my introverted derriere out of the house.

People who like science fiction tend to think in certain patterns, and I definitely fall into this category. (Some of the Myers-Briggs research explains this, and if you look in the how did you pick your name thread, I recount some of it.) It's always been pretty obvious that I think in different patterns than my adopted family, and it was very interesting to meet my birthfather and discover that both he and his son are rabid SF fans. In fact, my birthbrother and I are so similar in our interests, it's absolutely eerie.

People who don't like SF tend not to get it's appeal at all, but the average SF fan is of above average intelligence and pretty thoughtful. All things considered, we're a pretty cool bunch, and we bring a whole slew of other interests to the table. We don't like being stereotyped because we know better.

I look forward to AT3 because I know I'll meet lots of other cool folks. Even if we are geeky and hang out online. Which my family tolerates with amusement but doesn't get in the least.

[suse]

Women are dumb.
Men are dumb.

ergo, People are dumb.

We can then conclude that monkeys > people.

However:
AT>*

suse

[minigeek]

However:
AT>*

suse

AT wears a funny party hat?

[suse]

AT wears a funny party hat?

Yes, Mini. That's it exactly. (((miniGEEEEEK)))

I was referring to post of AD's on another thread.
Amanda Tapping > *

Huh. It kinda looks like the Earth symbol. The 'sun's a bit off, but still...

suse
ready for bed (and the down comforter) at 10PM

[Gate gal]

AT wears a funny party hat?

Oh, that gives me Blue's Clues flashbacks.
Steve Amanda wears a funny hat (cue music),
Sidetable Chris wears a funny hat...

Totally lost it now...Must...have...Sanctuary...details...soon...

[tagger]

I found an interesting article titled "Women Working in the Media" .

Great article, thanks.

Recent article about women and the B.C. entertainment industry:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...59bbd5&k=23289

ETA: The whole report can be read here: http://www.bcifp.com/

Again, great article.

That's very true. Which is why organizations such as Women in Film and Television, etc., are so important to help women find the breaks they need, network with the "right" people and get a foot in. The EI, like so many other industries, is still struggling out of a boys club mentality. The problem we face now is largely a sense of complacency from a lot of women, in fact, because things are getting better, it's easy to assume that the hard work is done and someone else will be there to keep the inroads open. What happens then is that those inroads begin to close up again. There's a fine line between militant left-wing(ism) and a continual movement towards equality

Great points.

That finding re: the relationship between presence of a female exec and number of female writers is striking. The article also alluded to its effect on characterisation: Those effects were also powerful. She's got data that show quantifiable effects on measures like female characters' agency and potency.


... such a perception is due to a 'vividness' effect; that is, characters like Buffy, Xena, and Ripley have been so notable that this leads to the inaccurate perception that this is general characteristic of scifi/fantasy. The only primetime (evening) genre in which women and men are nearly equal in both frequency and agency is the sitcom.

Interesting.

Mini, this is a great post - tried to green you but I am locked out.

I have experienced "The Boys Club" attitude myself in my last job - working with Engineers. I mainly liased with the managers who were all middle age or older. It was quite difficult.

In my current job I have had a number of equality boost moments. Currently I'm involved in contract negotiation via competitive dialogue for vast amounts of consultancy services (£2m). At the first round of meetings "bidders" teams coming to the table were all male - kitted out in their armani and bling. My eyes casted around our side of the table looking at our Architect, Education Resource Manager, Consultant Lawyer, Consultant Accountant, Consultant Technical (construction), Project Manager...... I'm the project accountant. ALL WOMEN and all very capable and intelligent - the male bidders were a tad put off their stride by this, not knowing exactly how to talk to us. They didn't get an easy ride!!

Women are making progress in the professions and we all owe it to the women who will come after us to do the best job we possibly can.

Totally agree!

I'm in the not-so pleasant position of not only being a young writer with sci-fi ideas, but trying to convince people that I'm a serious writer for this genre in TV ..)

Unbelievable, dismissed based on being a girl?!! Helloooo.

Being in acting, the problem with films tv and plays is that the roles are pre written for males generally. Look at our own stargate....1 main cast female (ok now there is 2 but for the first 9 years....) I often think i would have better chance making it as an actor if i was a male. However this just strengthens my resolve to make it and prove them wrong

Sexism is everwhere.

*looks furtively about*

Good scifi makes you think about things in a new way, is open to interpretation, and entertaining. I hate the stereotype, because it keeps many young women from giving the genre a try. I'm so grateful that both my son and my daughter appreciate the entertainment value of science fiction, and I'm grateful for Amanda's portrayal of Sam for making my daughter see that girls can do science.

Hear! Hear!

My major in college was computer science/programming and every where I went I felt like the odd man out. Twenty years ago, there were perhaps two or three women in my programming & science classes.

One would think that that would all be behind us now and yet even today, nearly twenty years later...

I think it's time society opened it's eyes and realized that women are not molded from the same cookie cutter mold. We are unique and individual and while some of us are quite happy with staying at home and taking care of our families, some of us want to touch the stars, but it should be up to us not society as to which path we choose to take.

I guess it's one of the reasons why I am hoping that Amanda's new series really takes flight, not just because she deserves it after dealing with the boys club for the past decade, but rather I'm hoping that a new generation of girls will see Amanda in her new series and she can be a role model to them as well.

And I am hoping they have the freedom apart from the influence of huge studios and networks to make their own creative decisions. Rather than being told to add action, add sex, add stupidity, remove clothes, remove thoughtful stories, remove intelligent and new ideas.... etc.

it doesn't necessarily have to be a female, it just needs to be someone that can see things from the female pov.

the sexism is so prevasive that folks don't see it.

... They seem at a loss to do anything with any female character unless she's part of a pair. thus perpetrating another fallacy, that females are subservient to males and really good for nothing but a relationship partner.

I don't think a female on the writing staff will change things simply because, wherever this sexist attitude is coming from, do you really think they'll listen to a mere female?????

Bonnie Hammer is alledgedly calling the shots and she's perfectly fine with keeping the female characters as unclothed and cliched as possible, so the gender of the person isn't an issue, how 'advanced' their sensitivities and view on gender roles is. And, given the rampant sexism we've seen thus far, maybe they don't need a female on the writing team that they can all ignore,but a male who's in touch with his feminine side that they just MIGHt listen to.

Excellent points, bottom line is sexism.

Excellent and interesting posts, everyone, what a treat to come home to.

I will post my diatribe under a new post, since I can't resist this topic.

[kir_fect]

Women are dumb.
Men are dumb.

ergo, People are dumb.

We can then conclude that monkeys > people.

That is why dogs are my favorite kind of people!

Spoiler:

[tagger]

Aaaarrgh, don’t get me started on the topic of male/ female disparities in the workplace.

I loved the articles, and was actually surprised by the male/ female inequity in the entertainment and media industries – I had no idea.

Half the women who train in the entertainment/ media field (50% representation in college), do not get jobs in the field (25% post college job-holders are women)? Are they are lost to attrition? Choose to stay at home? Give up? Who knows?

Networking appears to be vital in the media industry, as in most fields. I find networking in my profession very difficult on a number of levels. First of all, it is not my personality. Secondly, I don’t have time. Being a single parent means my time off work is parenting. I love being a Mom. I would work less and parent more in a heartbeat if it was possible, but no part time work option exists for me. At any rate, unlike my work partners, I can’t go “network” with my peers during a 6 -8 hour weekend golf outing, 2 hour gym session, after work dinners, etc, I have other responsibilities. I choose not to, probably to the detriment of my career, but career is not my priority right now and probably never will be. Perhaps some women in media feel the same way.

The key is having the choice, the chance rather than being shut out based on externals or assumptions about ability.

My current profession is completely male dominated and I face mild chromosomal bigotry every single day. My “customers” continually expect a male and often blurt out something to that effect. If the employee who works for me that day is male, my customers often assume he is the boss and I am the support staff. It is crazy - funny, really. I am past fighting it and just laugh, but some of my male peers truly believe women should not be in my field.

One of the articles suggested a female quota system. I do not agree. I don’t want handouts. I do not want greater or fewer opportunities because I am a woman. As a female, I want to succeed because I do an excellent job, every day, consistently. My professionalism is a "thank you" to the women before me, who had a difficult time entering my field, and it will help the girls and women after me have the same choices I do (like Coley said).

The real issue underlying today’s articles is much larger than sexism or male/ female issues alone, it involves judging others based on superficialities. Male/ female/ disabled/ able-bodied/ race/ looks/ income/ age - all of it. Discrimination is wrong in any form, at any time, and under any circumstance.

This brings me back to the topic.

Stargate discourages superficialities in my opinion; Sam is an equal team member who happens to be female.

SGC team members come from any and all backgrounds and abilities for a common goal.

Ironic, then, the industry that created Stargate is off the mark equality-wise.

[Gate gal]

Presents:
The Amanda Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/acting/index.php

The Sam Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/sam/index.php

Sam Fact Sheet (not quite accurate...grape jello?)
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/facts.php

Almost hate to put this quiz out there, but...
Black Widow Curse
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/lethal_weapon/

[L.A. Doyle]

Presents:
The Amanda Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/acting/index.php

The Sam Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/sam/index.php

Sam Fact Sheet (not quite accurate...grape jello?)
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/facts.php

Almost hate to put this quiz out there, but...
Black Widow Curse
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/lethal_weapon/

She likes grape jello...uh, at least in my little world. Use your shipper mind to deduce why, Michelle.

[the dancer of spaz]

it doesn't necessarily have to be a female, it just needs to be someone that can see things from the female pov. Right now the B@B perpetrate several cliches. they evidentally had no idea that cam supplanting sam reeked of sexism. Lesser qualified male put in charge of more qualified female??? Make it 'lesser qualified white male put in charge of more qualified black male' and they never woulda done it.

the sexism is so prevasive that folks don't see it.

See, I've gotta disagree here, because, in this case, it never would've happened in the first place. I'm not as sci-fi/fantasy savvy as the rest of you, but I have a hard time ever remembering a black guy in the lead role of ANY sci fi series. And it may seem like a minor quibble, but it does sorta hit just as close to home for me as sexism does. And saying, "Well it wouldn't have happened to the black guy!" is rather difficult to prove in this case as well - especially if the tried-and-true criteria for a lead role involves being a sexy, white male to begin with.

It just seems to me that African Americans have a place in sci fi to sort of represent all minorities, as a whole. They're not meant to lead, because that's not the demographic that the series is targeting. That's why, when Chris Judge auditioned for the role of Teal'c (a.k.a, big menacing alien with a heart full of gold), he was auditioning with men of all races. They knew what they wanted from the role of Teal'c, but they finally decided on the black guy because, hey, anyone who's brown can relate to the black dude, right? We're diverse. It doesn't help that the only time we ever saw Asians consistently on the show was during the Yu arc and in reference to Sha're and her family. And I can count on one hand how many Latinos have been shown.

It's important to note that, just as there are few females on television and behind the scenes, there are just as few (if not fewer) Latinos, Asians, Natives, etc. being represented in the sci fi genre.

ETA: It looks like BSG is one of few series to make such an effort.

But maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. Who knows? And maybe it's justified by true demographics. It's not like there's much pressure from the hardcore viewers to be more diverse, either. At the same time, it's not a big enough deal that one can't get over. I guess when it comes down to it, if a character isn't well developed, it doesn't matter what race or gender s/he is, if they're meant to fill a quota, it'll be obvious.

[NZNeep]

*snip*hehe...all ended well...kitchen survived but my heart nearly didn't...still....you gotta love kids....so hug your loved ones!!

Oh, what a hectic day! Like you guys need any more heat!

Congrats NZBG on 600

But I'm afraid I'll have to call out the Royal Security on you for putting a crumpet on Amanda's head or perhaps just use the wet socks, unless...scarimor has some other ideas

But crumpets are all good! But I shudder to think of all the butter and honey melting through into her hair. That will be a horrible sticky mess.

Heh, I'm really sorry to an Samandans on a diet reading this thread. Who would have thought my dream about Amanda and a donut would start all of this! But mmmm... hot bread. I think I will go and make some.

Don't forget you also use apples. But don't mix apples and oranges I hear it leads to explosions of suns. Congrats on the 600 posts. I have some catching up to do.

Yes! I remembered the apples when I was at work today. I will have to write down everything I'm allowed to use in analogies. A physics book I'm reading at the moment seems to try and link everything to New Zealand in order to make it "accessible" to NZ readers. It just came up with this gem: "Think of it as a giant sheep race. You feed in your atoms, they go along the race, and at the end there's a gate where a person separates out the big atoms from the little atoms - the sheep from the lambs. This is exactly how a spectrometer works, except the gate is really a magnet."

Sheep race? Who races sheep? Maybe it's an Aussie thing.

I have experienced "The Boys Club" attitude myself in my last job - working with Engineers. I mainly liased with the managers who were all middle age or older. It was quite difficult.

In my current job I have had a number of equality boost moments. Currently I'm involved in contract negotiation via competitive dialogue for vast amounts of consultancy services (£2m). At the first round of meetings "bidders" teams coming to the table were all male - kitted out in their armani and bling. My eyes casted around our side of the table looking at our Architect, Education Resource Manager, Consultant Lawyer, Consultant Accountant, Consultant Technical (construction), Project Manager...... I'm the project accountant. ALL WOMEN and all very capable and intelligent - the male bidders were a tad put off their stride by this, not knowing exactly how to talk to us. They didn't get an easy ride!!

Women are making progress in the professions and we all owe it to the women who will come after us to do the best job we possibly can.

Argh! I know! What is it with not being comfortable with powerful women? Our Prime Minister is a woman who is in her 3rd term as Prime Minister. Before one of the elections, the guy who was the leader of the opposition tried to excuse his poor performance in a televised debate by saying that he was always taught not to argue or raise his voice at females. I was so angry at that, she isn't Prime Minister because she is delicate and easily offended. It's a debate for crying out loud! It backfired and got her more support if anything.

[NZNeep]

People think I only like scifi because of my husband's interest in it. The fools! I was cancelling dates in college because of new episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Science fiction is just a great genre. Good scifi makes you think about things in a new way, is open to interpretation, and entertaining. I hate the stereotype, because it keeps many young women from giving the genre a try. I'm so grateful that both my son and my daughter appreciate the entertainment value of science fiction, and I'm grateful for Amanda's portrayal of Sam for making my daughter see that girls can do science.

This saddens me too. There is a girl at work who I just know would love Stargate... especially with the incorporation of different mythologies and such. But she won't try it because it has "Star" in the title.

But I'm determined to get her watching... maybe Amanda's portrayal of Sam will help this girl realise that there are things more important in life than how quickly the boy from the sports shop texts back.

*snip*
One would think that that would all be behind us now and yet even today, nearly twenty years later, I find myself playing an online game and listening to shouts on the chat lines that women/girls don't play fantasy games and I find myself sitting there thinking to myself "We don't? Who says?"

I think it's time society opened it's eyes and realized that women are not molded from the same cookie cutter mold. We are unique and individual and while some of us are quite happy with staying at home and taking care of our families, some of us want to touch the stars, but it should be up to us not society as to which path we choose to take.

I guess it's one of the reasons why I am hoping that Amanda's new series really takes flight, not just because she deserves it after dealing with the boys club for the past decade, but rather I'm hoping that a new generation of girls will see Amanda in her new series and she can be a role model to them as well.

The gender stereotypes about genre are pretty persistent aren't they? I overheard my 7-year-old and 8-year-old nephews (they are cousins) chatting away while playing a shooting/strategy game on the playstation. They were talking about how girls don't play that sort of game... I challenged they to name all the most dedicated gamers in our family. They had to admit that they were mostly female. I'm happy to think that I may have got them thinking with that one.

And I agree, no more cookie cutter categorising! Just because I take physics and watch Sci Fi, doesn't mean I have no interest in fashion or make up, or drawing and painting. So don't look so surprised!

[Mandysg1]

Presents:
The Amanda Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/acting/index.php

The Sam Quiz
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/sam/index.php

Sam Fact Sheet (not quite accurate...grape jello?)
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/facts.php

Almost hate to put this quiz out there, but...
Black Widow Curse
http://tapping.stargate-sg1.hu/quiz/lethal_weapon/

Okay I got 100% on all of them....hmmm what does that say about me

[NZNeep]

See, I've gotta disagree here, because, in this case, it never would've happened in the first place. I'm not as sci-fi/fantasy savvy as the rest of you, but I have a hard time ever remembering a black guy in the lead role of ANY sci fi series. And it may seem like a minor quibble, but it does sorta hit just as close to home for me as sexism does. And saying, "Well it wouldn't have happened to the black guy!" is rather difficult to prove in this case as well - especially if the tried-and-true criteria for a lead role involves being a sexy, white male to begin with.

It just seems to me that African Americans have a place in sci fi to sort of represent all minorities, as a whole. They're not meant to lead, because that's not the demographic that the series is targeting. That's why, when Chris Judge auditioned for the role of Teal'c (a.k.a, big menacing alien with a heart full of gold), he was auditioning with men of all races. They knew what they wanted from the role of Teal'c, but they finally decided on the black guy because, hey, anyone who's brown can relate to the black dude, right? We're diverse. It doesn't help that the only time we ever saw Asians consistently on the show was during the Yu arc. And I can count on one hand how many Latinos have been shown.

It's important to note that, just as there are few females on television and behind the scenes, there are just as few (if not fewer) Latinos, Asians, Natives, etc. being represented in the sci fi genre.

But maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. Who knows? And maybe it's justified by true demographics. It's not like there's much pressure from the hardcore viewers to be more diverse, either. At the same time, it's not a big enough deal that one can't get over. I guess when it comes down to it, if a character isn't well developed, it doesn't matter what race or gender s/he is, if they're meant to fill a quota, it'll be obvious.

No, don't think of it like that! If anything, it's the other way around. If that matches the demographics there is a reason for it. If more people were represented in SciFi, a larger range of people would watch it. "Target demographics," IMHO, are a crock. Again, I don't know the industry well so I could have just made that up.

And I agree about it being obvious when a character is thrown in to fill some kind of quota. Well written, well thought out characters are still the way to go.