Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Myrth]

Hear hear Mini. After working in computer hardware sales for many years I can also attest to that mentality. Surprisingly I don't work in that environment now, in fact in the company I'm with now I'm the only computer geek in the office. It's a refreshing change to be listened to without question. But I'm lucky and I know it. It also doesn't have to be about pushing females to the fore, which I know many people confuse with stamping out discrimination. People should be judged on their skills not gender, and judged fairly and equally.

I was at a conference a few years ago, sitting at a table full of folks in my industry discussing some of the latest trends. One of the guys asked a techical question about the new hardware we'd been using and I turned to him and answered it. He was sitting right beside me. But he didn't even look at me, he looked past me at my colleague from work (who was sitting on the other side of me) and said, "is that true?". He didn't know either of us from Adam. But I was the only female at the table. And when my colleague said, "Yep," the other guy nodded and went on. Then two minutes later, my colleague and I had stood up and were standing in the corner of the room. The same guy walks up and asks my colleague a question leading off from the first one. Again, he didn't even glance my way. My colleague had to tell him that the question wasn't in his area of expertise, but he deferred it to me. The point is - it happens so often that much of the time we tend not to even notice these things. The 'automatic' assumptions people make that a woman wouldn't be INTERESTED in flying a plane, or that she wouldn't know much about a technical issue. Especially in male dominated fields. It's not even meant as an insult, it's just so stereotypically ingrained in us from years of status quo - that if we don't step up and KEEP pointing it out (even when it seems tiny or ad nauseum), then it'll just perpetuate forever and the stereotype will never change. We're the ones that have to change it. No matter how b****y it might make us seem to some people when we apparently notice every so-called "little" thing. A million "little" things equals a very HUGE thing.

mg

"Don't worry about it, dollface. They guys are gonna grab a beer and leave you to get back to your needlepoint."

[ShimmeringStar]

Spaz, you raise some valid concerns there and I had the same thoughts last night.

Spoiler:

I mean, let's face it, Mitchell is part of the show and the team now, and it would be naive to think that they will show him in a bad light just to showcase Sam's abilitities.

There have been some great and insightful posts over the last weeks. And even though a lot of them tend to be very negative, you all have, unfortunately, a lot of valid points.

Spoiler:

I try not to be too much of a whinger, but here is what I have to say, for what it's worth:

I definitely watch the current Stargate differently than I did during the first 8 seasons. Back then I could enjoy the greatness that was Sam and at the same time savor AT's performance. Sam was always able to inspire me. And I was always impressed by AT's acting.

During S9, on the other hand, there wasn't much left of the Sam Carter I had come to admire. There was not one episode where I could honestly say that I was excited about Sam's part or impressed by her scientific contributions, simply because it was not there.
But I still enjoyed AT's acting. Even if it was just something small like in OTG. The Sam of S9 and 10 is a different Sam, but I immensely enjoy what AT is making out of it.

I would never call myself an optimist, but I do try to find something positive in everything, and I see improvement in S10. For one, Sam was very much a part of at least 2 out of the first 3 episodes. And I liked that. And from the looks of it, there are some episodes coming up where we will get to see more of Sam than last season. However, Stargate has changed a lot and I would never dare to expect "The Road Not Taken" to be anything like "Grace" or even "Death Knell". What I do look forward to, however, is to watch AT make the most of it.

For me it was hard to accept the changes that took place in S9 (and I am still working on it). See, I literally grew up with Sam Carter. (And no, I was not a teenager anymore when the show started.) But I found myself and I found my calling in life, just like Sam grew up and found her place. During the first 8 years when Sam was shown as a strong, intelligent female, I learned from her to stand up for myself and others and to do what I thought was right and not what I was told was right. I learned to take matters into my own hands and that I can make a difference.

The Sam of S9 and 10 (so far) is still a strong and intelligent female. Unfortunately, however, the writers do not highlight these apsects of her anymore, much to my demay. It saddens me that younger fans watching now, who are in a smiliar phase of life that I was in 10 years ago, do not get to see the same strong character and are not given the same chance I had, to learn and be inspired by Sam.
As sad as it is, I think I have come to terms with the fact that the show and Sam have changed and I can deal with it now and move on. I now tune in every Friday to watch AT and to be surpised from time to time by Sam's role in an episode.

Like they say, all good things must end, and the Stargate that made a difference in my life and so many others is already gone. What I am hoping for, however, is that Sam (and AT, for that matter)

Very eloquent post Dani. The parts I bolded especially touched me. Thanks for posting your thoughts. ((((Dani))))

[ShimmeringStar]

Hear hear Mini. After working in computer hardware sales for many years I can also attest to that mentality. Surprisingly I don't work in that environment now, in fact in the company I'm with now I'm the only computer geek in the office. It's a refreshing change to be listened to without question. But I'm lucky and I know it. It also doesn't have to be about pushing females to the fore, which I know many people confuse with stamping out discrimination. People should be judged on their skills not gender, and judged fairly and equally.

Hear, hear Myrth. And that's what I've loved about Sam's character too... how her character seemed to follow the creed of your last sentence.

[astrogeologist]

Astro and her graphs reminds me of a kid in a candy store
WTG oh geeky one

Ooops, my geekiness is showing... and just to show just *how* geeky I am, I went over to a friend's house this afternoon, and on the drive over I was thinking of revisions to the graph (what I should have done... and I, of course, made those changes when I got home... just some plot-presentation changes, not data changes).

edit: ah next time my neice needs help with her physics can I call you?

Oh, I so enjoy helping folks with science - but it's much more fun in person. Over the computer is too frustating (communication limitations then get in the way - I believe in sketches and drawings of all physics and math problems!).

[ShimmeringStar]

Which is another reason why I think they made a mistake trying to bring in a "new leading man" to take over for RDA. Besides being "the star," his character filled the role as being the emotional centerpoint. They all kinda bounced off of him because of their deep connection to him. It made sense that way. Bringing in an unknown new guy and making him the new emotional center doesn't make sense. It feels forced.

I have said this before but I believe that it was RDA's intention to have Amanda take over that role as the emotional core. It would have made sense because of her strong ties to both of the others and she could have served to help better integrate the new characters.

But then I guess she would have been considered "the lead" and they just couldn't have that now could they?

Mmmmhhhhmmmmm... it *was* forced. What we bought slowly over time with the original team configurations (and even Jonas Quinn's introduction to the team was handled (IMOHO) much better than Cam's) was eased onto us. Even if it was love at first sight for some of us, the more we saw of these character's interactions the deeper our appreciation was for it.

The new dynamics were forced onto viewers, bluntly and quickly. No spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down... (Rats! Now I've got that Mary Poppins song in my head!!!)

[ShimmeringStar]

Ooops, my geekiness is showing... and just to show just *how* geeky I am, I went over to a friend's house this afternoon, and on the drive over I was thinking of revisions to the graph (what I should have done... and I, of course, made those changes when I got home... just some plot-presentation changes, not data changes).

. . . .

Oh, I so enjoy helping folks with science - but it's much more fun in person. Over the computer is too frustating (communication limitations then get in the way - I believe in sketches and drawings of all physics and math problems!).

Hmmmm..... *wonders what else we can get Astro to plot and diagram.*

[Skydiver]

As proud as i am to be a demanda (heck, ihave been called a LOT worse)

let's please remember not to talk about other fan groups behind thier backs.

[astrogeologist]

Spaz, you raise some valid concerns there and I had the same thoughts last night.

Spoiler:

I mean, let's face it, Mitchell is part of the show and the team now, and it would be naive to think that they will show him in a bad light just to showcase Sam's abilitities.

There have been some great and insightful posts over the last weeks. And even though a lot of them tend to be very negative, you all have, unfortunately, a lot of valid points.

Spoiler:

I try not to be too much of a whinger, but here is what I have to say, for what it's worth:

I definitely watch the current Stargate differently than I did during the first 8 seasons. Back then I could enjoy the greatness that was Sam and at the same time savor AT's performance. Sam was always able to inspire me. And I was always impressed by AT's acting.

During S9, on the other hand, there wasn't much left of the Sam Carter I had come to admire. There was not one episode where I could honestly say that I was excited about Sam's part or impressed by her scientific contributions, simply because it was not there.
But I still enjoyed AT's acting. Even if it was just something small like in OTG. The Sam of S9 and 10 is a different Sam, but I immensely enjoy what AT is making out of it.

I would never call myself an optimist, but I do try to find something positive in everything, and I see improvement in S10. For one, Sam was very much a part of at least 2 out of the first 3 episodes. And I liked that. And from the looks of it, there are some episodes coming up where we will get to see more of Sam than last season. However, Stargate has changed a lot and I would never dare to expect "The Road Not Taken" to be anything like "Grace" or even "Death Knell". What I do look forward to, however, is to watch AT make the most of it.

For me it was hard to accept the changes that took place in S9 (and I am still working on it). See, I literally grew up with Sam Carter. (And no, I was not a teenager anymore when the show started.) But I found myself and I found my calling in life, just like Sam grew up and found her place. During the first 8 years when Sam was shown as a strong, intelligent female, I learned from her to stand up for myself and others and to do what I thought was right and not what I was told was right. I learned to take matters into my own hands and that I can make a difference.

The Sam of S9 and 10 (so far) is still a strong and intelligent female. Unfortunately, however, the writers do not highlight these apsects of her anymore, much to my demay. It saddens me that younger fans watching now, who are in a smiliar phase of life that I was in 10 years ago, do not get to see the same strong character and are not given the same chance I had, to learn and be inspired by Sam.

As sad as it is, I think I have come to terms with the fact that the show and Sam have changed and I can deal with it now and move on. I now tune in every Friday to watch AT and to be surpised from time to time by Sam's role in an episode.

Like they say, all good things must end, and the Stargate that made a difference in my life and so many others is already gone. What I am hoping for, however, is that Sam (and AT, for that matter)

Stellar post, Dani!

Sam: Discriminate that, boys!!!

Yes!

Can you just see what great and wonderful press they'd get if they *did* take AT up in a Thunderbird? Both the Air Force *and* the Stargate franchise would get all sorts of great press everywhere - because they could tout equal opportunity and forward thinking and such!

Dude. That reminds me; that would have dovetailed (hee) nicely with Major Malachowski's story.

Wonderful, DEM, and that's the kind of thing that I was referring to in this post:

Speaking of educational I found this on my "home page" at Yahoo. It's two student pilots for the Navy. Jay and Meaghan are their names.


http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...=yvmtf&cache=1


Who said women can't fly.

Thanks for posting this little video, LaCroix!

I especially love the part where she said something like, "I was nine years old, and I said, 'I'm gonna be a fighter pilot.' And everyone was like, 'No, you're not.' And I was like, 'OK... Watch me!'"

So cool.

This brings up something else I would have liked to have seen them do over the course of the series: Bring in women who are actively serving in the Air Force - and have them on the set for a couple of weeks - helping out with storylines for Carter. Unless I'm wrong, my impression is that AT is the type who would love to meet these women, as well as love to bring their authenticity into her role of Sam Carter.

To take some of the real-life heroics of these female officers and aviators and rewrite them to fit into the Stargate scifi universe and the role of Sam Carter. Now *that* would be awesome. And newsworthy - I can see articles being written - it would be great publicity for the Air Force. And I would think that there would be many female officers out there who'd love to come onto a set like Stargate, get to walk around and talk to folks behind the scenes - the whole time 'your story' is being used as the basis for the storyline of a strong female scifi character! Wow!

I think someone on our thread has links (in their sig?) to the heroic, and true, stories of some amazing female officers - just for starters!

[astrogeologist]

Okay first - Tracy Jane HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY

Thank You for all the Birthday Wishes

School has started back for me and it has been a crazy start - the students start back on Monday - I'll be around when time permits but the next couple of weeks will be crazy for me

On the ride in a jet fighter - AT talked about it at the Vancouver Con so I asked her at Shore Leave if she had worked out a flight yet and she said yeah she thinks it is going to happen soon. So yeah it stinks that she had to go asking about it when the guys were offered the chance but it does look like it will be happening for her.

Now *that* would be awesome if it comes to pass! Woot! Go AT!

[ShimmeringStar]

Yeah, sadly it's not just an issue regarding the work place. It's life in general.

Put in spoiler due to the fact that it's OT and quite lengthy.

Spoiler:

Five years ago when my daughter was born, my husband and I agreed that I would stop working and stay at home with her until she went to school. We both decided that we would rather live on one income than watch someone else raise our daughter for us and luckily for us we were able to live quite comfortably on his income. So needless to say, I've been a stay-at-home mom for nearly six years now and I haven't really had to deal with the inequalities at work for quite some time; however, as a woman I have still been forced to deal with it on a regular basis.

You see I handle all of the finances in our household. I pay all the bills. I make all the major purchases. If there is a question about money, I'm the person that deals with it. Four years ago, I decided I wanted to buy a new car. I spent weeks reading reviews, price comparing different vehicles and making a decision on which car I wanted to purchase. Then the day finally came when I wanted to buy a new car and my husband and I drove down to the car lot with our daughter who was two at the time. When we got to the car dealership, I was the one who was looking at the cars and my husband was the one taking care of my daughter and yet the salesman went right up to my husband and asked if he could help him.

I told him that we would like to purchase a new car. I told him the color, the make and the year I wanted. I specifically expressed what accessories we wanted added to the car and how much we were willing to pay. My husband said nothing. He just stood there playing with my daughter, but everytime the salesman spoke he would look directly at my husband and ask the question. He completely ignored me. After about thirty minutes, my husband could tell I was becoming extremely angry and the salesman was at risk of pushing me over the edge and he'd be forced to go to another car dearler. So after about the thirtieth time of being asked a question by the salesman, my husband looked at the sales person and said 'Look, the person you want to speak with is my wife. She handles all the money. I have no say in this matter. I'm only here to take care of my daughter. I suggest if you really want to make a sale today that you start listening to what she's telling you otherwise she's going to walk out of here and she won't be coming back'.

The salesman had the audacity to look utterly shocked by my husband's comments. After that he basically did whatever he could to appease me, but by that time I was already completely p*ssed off and ready to walk out. If it hadn't had been for my husband, I would have left, but he had already wasted nearly an hour there and he wanted us to get a new car. So I agreed to stick around, but I was a hardass from that moment on. Everytime they told me they couldn't do something I wanted, I'd thank them for their time and told them I'd look elsewhere for a new car. After about three hours of negotiating, I walked out of the car dealership with a brand new car that cost me $5000 under the marked price, 0% financing and no money down. In fact when we went to sign the paperwork the next day, the financing guy looked at the details and said 'Um I think we have a problem. I think the salesperson misquoted you this information because there is no way we can sell this car to you under these terms.' So I suggested that he speak with his manager, because I had already spoken to him several times the night before and after a few minutes on the phone he apologized and said that everything was in order. I think by that time they were all just very happy to see me go.

I wish I could say that was the last time I had to deal with this sort of thing, but it happens quite often and sadly in most cases, they don't even realize how disrespectful and discriminating they are being.

Thanks for sharing Kat.

Can you imagine Sam going in to buy a new car? (Granted we know she likes sleek, sturdy classics that she can tinker with....) But imagine her going into a Colorado Springs dealership after doing tons of 'Net research... Imagine a gaggle of twenty-something (and not-so-twentysomething) salesMEN ignoring the person who just rode up on the classic Indian motorbike... until said person unhooks her leather jacket and lifts her helmet up..... Imagine the pack rushing towards her, falling over each other to try to help the gorgeous blonde sauntering towards them.... *giggles* And imagine then the time she would have given those smallminded twerps!

[Lizlove]

I now want to add my own little bit after the eternal talk of s9 and s10.

Personally I don't think we have to get our hopes up too much. Over the years Stargate changed a lot and I think RDA's depart was the bigest one. Now I don't say Stargate entirely leans on his shoulder but he still had a big presence on the show. Unconsiously being seen as the lead even if there wasn't supposed to be any. As they say times comes and goes and sadly SG-1's is slowly going. The adding of new characters added a lot of changes TPTB weren't really ready for. At least not that soon after RDA left.

Many people grow up with SG1. It was like some big friend you could turn too when you were feeling down and depressed. Sometimes just to see a character or an actor making fun in the bonus was enough to make us smile. That is something TPTB don't really get. Even the actors are surprised sometimes that Stargate isn't only a love for something, but a passion too.

But TPTB kept going and I was happy with it til I saw they were messing things up a bit. The thing is they focused too much on the new characters, thinking the long-time characters could stick up for their own. And they did, admirably so. But like I said, things change and everyone had to change with it. What TPTB doesn't really get.

Stargate shaped a lot of persons, including the actors who are spending all their energy on making Stargate an unforgetable experience for everyone. But people are getting tired. Imagination is getting dry. Misconceptions are made. The fun, the love, the entertaining is always there. But there is something that changed. Maybe the passion of writing. Maybe because SG so famous is. I don't know. But we have to accept it because sadly I don't think we can do much more than to enjoy the last moments we have with our beloved show and be happy they didn't kill Sam off.

Stargate will always live on in our memories but we also have to keep in mind it won't be eternally there. I don't want a 11th season because I don't think it's going to bring up a lot more. I'm not a pessimist but you have to be honest that 10 years a pretty number is. Maybe we didn't see what we wanted but I'm damn proud of AT for not letting everything down and still making Sam an entertaining, intelligent, fun character. Against all odds she still manages to bring out the admiration I have for her through the poorly written parts she has had. She keeps on going with the hope Samantha will be developed and we follow that hope by keeping on watching Stargate. I think that's the best tribute we could do for her.

This is it for my last ranty unnecesary post.

Take Care

[astrogeologist]

RE the ratings

Spoiler:

OK, so now that I have a chance to just sit back and look at the data, what jumps out at me is the dropoff in ratings throughout Season 9 (from the high ratings of Season 8).



I would say.. that it simply looks like viewers didn't find the New SG-1 interesting enough to keep tuning in. SG-ME, with Mitchell, Vala, Landry, Cam and the Ori, just weren't enticing enough.

Too bad we'll never know what would have happened if they *hadn't* made so many significant changes - if they *hadn't* felt the need to actually create and start a new series, but keep it under the banner of the old SG-1 brand.

Other graph

Spoiler:

[roseblue]

I wonder if sam will grow her hair longer. Like below shoulder length. But since she is in the military she prefers it shorter. looks good on her.

[NearlyCircular]

Insiders spoilers. It's not done yet, but so far,

Spoiler:

Oh Yeah! Mitchell acknowledges that he's not in control of anything! Sam's the same rank, Daniel's a civilian and Teal'c is an alien. And some good Sam-Vala teamwork, and I'm sorry, I laughed at Vala trying to arm wrestle Teal'c. And now Sam's commanding the troops!

Oops, commercial's done, gotta go watch.

NC

[nell]

Did I really see this?

Spoiler:

How long before Sam was given an opportunity to lead a team (in years!!!) and on this episode Vala is leading a team on base as they hunt for the Ba'al's???!!!

Just an observation!