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**Miz_Gatez** · 29 January 2006, 09:00 AM

What I can't shake is how, well, JACK-like Mitchell is. It's like they swapped brains. But really, whenever Jack says some smartass thing it's funny, but when Mitchell tries it out it just sounds.....sounds....*cue silence with cricket chirping*. Wrong!

I also thought it was madly insane how easy it was for the guy to become the leader of the flagship team right away. I mean, really, shouldn't the guy have to go through training and all that before he's shoved on the front line?

I agree, jckfan, they should've made him 2IC to Carter. Let him watch the masters at work

**Historian** · 29 January 2006, 09:18 AM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY COLEY

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Agent_Dark

MajorSam would rip your arms off if she stumbled across that!

Well, she could try.

But wy MY arms, dammit? I didn't post the frickin' thing. How come it's always ME that ends up in the Jello-pit whenever there's a cat-fight?? Sheesh.

mini

**Miz_Gatez** · 29 January 2006, 09:40 AM

I loved the epi Grace Under Pressure!!

I can't believe I'm actually saying this (because I swore I'd never say it) but I'm actually starting to like McKay now. I think him being able to refuse Sam's seductions (

) was very...I guess the word I'm looking for is "mature". He always seemed like the neighborhood bully who was still, like, 5 yrs old. That he could ignore her and work on his own survival gained a lot of respect in my eyes.

I thought that was so funny, though! I musta been grinning like an idiot throughout the entire thing!

When I figured out there was no way Sam could've been there for REAL, I was able to sit down and enjoy McKay's hallucination

Having her actually be there in the flesh would've totally ruined her character. Still, I'm starting to believe they should move the Sam Carter character to Atlantis full-time. I think she might benefit from the new environment (though maybe not so much being away from Jack

).

Of course, I'm not expecting that. Besides, if TPTB take Sam away and put her on SGA, then SG-1's really screwed. If they did better with Vala and Mitchell they might have room for options like that, but, alas...I won't even get into my long list of complaints. I know everyone's heard those a million times, if not from me from someone else.

Still, good epi.

(PS: Happy b-day to Coley

Have blue jello, on the Samandans

)

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Strix varia

I don't know, BSG borders on being too dark and edgy for me sometimes. Firefly was brilliant, but sometimes almost a bit too dark as well. But, I read a lot of young adult science fiction and fantasy as opposed to adult stuff, so I tend towards lighter stuff normally.

In some ways I think it's almost unfair to compare BSG with Stargate, because they've never tried for the same tone/feel. It's more fair to compare it with the various incarnations of Star Trek, because they have a more similar presentation. (Presentation/tone/feel... I don't think those are quite the right words I'm looking for but hopefully you'll know what I mean.)

Frankly, I don't want Stargate to become like BSG. But I don't think you have to up the gore factor and start dealing with darker themes to have good storytelling. I will agree that good storytelling is sadly lacking this season.

I won't pretend I don't like darkness. I do, especially in my sci-fi. But I also like a balance, which was what drew me to SG-1 to begin with. SG-1 has gotten pretty edgy at times, bordering on dark, but it pulls back and allows some good old fashioned heroic-justice in as well, which is something I quite appreciate (when it's not done in a cliche manner).

Someone recently mentioned that Jack was intentionally not written as a superhero (per RDA's wishes), and I think that element has always played true with Carter, Teal'c and Daniel as well - which makes the hero elements of the series far more pallatable for me.

I don't want SG-1 to be BSG (I don't even watch Firefly, so that's out too *g*), but I do want SG-1 to tell stories that matter, and to give the characters a chance to work through real issues, within the scope of their science-fiction action-hero universe.

What makes BSG a better series than SG-1 right now is not its darkness. It's its depth. The stories being told are stories that resonate, and they're not being told half-@$$ed. They're arc-ed out, they're enmeshed with the character's lives, plotted through with intelligent introspection and believable character-growth in a very ensemble cast setting.

SG-1 used to be like that, back when the Goa'uld arc was begininng to bear fruit. But ever since they "moved on" to tell their so-called new series/story, it's been gone. Like Carter said in RE: "I got nothin'... yet".

A big part of the reason it's falling so flat right now has to do with the fact that they're mixing old, established characters with brand new unintroduced ones, yet they're foisting character-trauma on the new guys in a way that does NOT resonate with the audience yet because ..... we don't KNOW these new guys yet.

How are we supposed to give a damn that Mitchell's friend is dying if we don't even know for sure whether we give a damn whether Mitchell himself dies (yet), or not. Likewise Landry's little "sad moment" with Lam during the Prior Plague was impossible to empathize with.

They need to work on the new characters themselves; make us care about *them* before there's any possibility we can care about their friends/family/emotional angst. Yet in order to (somehow) "force" us to care, they're giving tonnes of screen time to these new guys "going through stuff", while we're *told* that it matters, only we don't feel it. Because how could we? Carter cares about Mitchell so we're supposed to, too? It doesn't work that way. We may be able to empathize with Carter while she empathizes with Mitchell, but that doesn't mean we care even a whit more what happens to Mitchell at the end of that empathy. We care what happens to CARTER. What SHE feels vis-a-vis what he feels. Because we know her and we've "grown up" with her the proper way. The way we aren't being given a chance to grow with Mitchell himself.

So there's the difference between today's SG-1 and today's BSG. Nothing to do with the tone of the series, everything to do with the scope of the storytelling and the depth of the characters.

mini

**Historian** · 29 January 2006, 10:39 AM

All right. I just saw Stronghold, and here is my idea on the episode. Hope I don't get lynched on my thoughts of Mitchell's behavior.

Spoiler:

Ok, raising personal force sheild to prevent to many injuries ;-)

**Skydiver** · 29 January 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by minigeek

So there's the difference between today's SG-1 and today's BSG. Nothing to do with the tone of the series, everything to do with the scope of the storytelling and the depth of the characters.

mini

yeah, that is the big diffference. the BSG crew seems to give a fig about what they're making while the SG folks seem to just be, well tossing any old piece of junk out there cause, you know, we'll love it.

we've watched for 9.5 years and we'll keep watching

I kinda compare the two shows to, well BSG is a nice fancy restaurant, with nice waiters, fantastic menu's and recipes and a memorable experience while SG1 is...McDonalds. Sometimes you get good food but...sometimes it's just there cause you need to eat

**Strix varia** · 29 January 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Historian

Spoiler:

Ok, raising personal force sheild to prevent to many injuries ;-)

I don't think you need to raise a force shield, Historian. Actually, this makes sense in the context of the story, and is probably the best defense of Mitchell's actions I've seen so far. You should post this on the Stronghold thread... I think there are a lot of people who would jump on this in support.

**ChopinGal** · 29 January 2006, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by minigeek

I won't pretend I don't like darkness. I do, especially in my sci-fi. But I also like a balance, which was what drew me to SG-1 to begin with. SG-1 has gotten pretty edgy at times, bordering on dark, but it pulls back and allows some good old fashioned heroic-justice in as well, which is something I quite appreciate (when it's not done in a cliche manner).

Someone recently mentioned that Jack was intentionally not written as a superhero (per RDA's wishes), and I think that element has always played true with Carter, Teal'c and Daniel as well - which makes the hero elements of the series far more pallatable for me.

I don't want SG-1 to be BSG (I don't even watch Firefly, so that's out too *g*), but I do want SG-1 to tell stories that matter, and to give the characters a chance to work through real issues, within the scope of their science-fiction action-hero universe.

What makes BSG a better series than SG-1 right now is not its darkness. It's its depth. The stories being told are stories that resonate, and they're not being told half-@$$ed. They're arc-ed out, they're enmeshed with the character's lives, plotted through with intelligent introspection and believable character-growth in a very ensemble cast setting.

SG-1 used to be like that, back when the Goa'uld arc was begininng to bear fruit. But ever since they "moved on" to tell their so-called new series/story, it's been gone. Like Carter said in RE: "I got nothin'... yet".

A big part of the reason it's falling so flat right now has to do with the fact that they're mixing old, established characters with brand new unintroduced ones, yet they're foisting character-trauma on the new guys in a way that does NOT resonate with the audience yet because ..... we don't KNOW these new guys yet.

How are we supposed to give a damn that Mitchell's friend is dying if we don't even know for sure whether we give a damn whether Mitchell himself dies (yet), or not. Likewise Landry's little "sad moment" with Lam during the Prior Plague was impossible to empathize with.

They need to work on the new characters themselves; make us care about *them* before there's any possibility we can care about their friends/family/emotional angst. Yet in order to (somehow) "force" us to care, they're giving tonnes of screen time to these new guys "going through stuff", while we're *told* that it matters, only we don't feel it. Because how could we? Carter cares about Mitchell so we're supposed to, too? It doesn't work that way. We may be able to empathize with Carter while she empathizes with Mitchell, but that doesn't mean we care even a whit more what happens to Mitchell at the end of that empathy. We care what happens to CARTER. What SHE feels vis-a-vis what he feels. Because we know her and we've "grown up" with her the proper way. The way we aren't being given a chance to grow with Mitchell himself.

So there's the difference between today's SG-1 and today's BSG. Nothing to do with the tone of the series, everything to do with the scope of the storytelling and the depth of the characters.

mini

I had to log back on to respond to this excellent post! mini, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head on two counts: the depth of writing regarding characterization/arcs on this season's BSG which seems to resonate with the fans. I don't want to go too OT here, but the enemy has now been shown such a "human face" that we really start to empathize and question the very values of what makes a person "human"? This is powerful stuff. The writers have managed to hook us by stretching our paradigm of the nature of humanity. In a way, the emergence of RepliCarter/Fifth was taking us down that path too but it never fully got us there. I think that whole Replicator arc still held a lot of potential. I already cared about this group of bad guys; I didn't need the proselytizing boring Priors preaching a new salvation.

Why is it that many of us can't seem to care deeply about the new characters on Stargate this season? Because, as you have so well written, the writers have been placing the cart before the horse. Having Lam confront her dad and Cam sit by his dying friend are wasted scenes ... the fans are not ready for this kind of exposition. In these cases, non-familiarity breeds contempt.

Hell, we still don't know what happened to Jack!!

Bring in the new characters but let the veterans be the ones to carry the stories this first/second season. When Teal'c, Daniel and Sam are reduced to wallpaper in many of the so-called pivotal scenes/eppies of S9, the overall quality of the show and connection to the characters are reduced also. Back stories are fine, but give us a reason to care first FCOL!! Treat the fans with respect by writing in some dialogue about Jack, about J/S (not more teasing ambiguity which is so patronizing and condescending), and how Jack no longer being a part of the team has impacted the SGC. This could have made our taking in the new characters much more palatable and could have provided some quality scenes for the original ensemble cast. I would have watched those kinds of scenes much more intently than these premature scenes of new-character development. Unfortunately, we didn't get this. They threw us a bone with Janet and Martouf. And, wisely, left the door open for further interaction. It seems that the writers have been writing themselves into a corner and finally realized that they may need the old characters to breathe some life and, more importantly, fan interest into the show again. Yes, I could be dead wrong about all this ... but every time I read a post about someone falling asleep or not even wanting to re-run an eppie, I seem to think I'm not too far off the mark.

Peace, CG

**Coley** · 29 January 2006, 01:19 PM

Many thanks to everyone for the Birthday wishes. 41 - where do they go eh?!

Well I spent the day chauffering 1speed back from his holiday consisting of house hunting, and stone circling on the Isle of Lewis. The former was for me as I went up there for an interview - and got the job - which actually isn't that much of an achievement seeing as I think I was the only one who applied. Anyway in 3 months I shall be relocated in the back of beyond so I have a lot to do.

The stone circling went down well with 1speed I think - he came away with a tonne of photo's and there was some heavy male to male bonding going down between he and my dog!!

I have just skimmed the latest posts and there is some interesting comment going on. I'm looking forward to watching ripple effect, but not to season 10!!

**Tracy Jane** · 29 January 2006, 01:22 PM

Glad you enjoyed it, Coley. Or at least 1Speed did

Question, guys. Sam's car.... is it that little silver vintage, or that black jeep?

**minigeek** · 29 January 2006, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by ChopinGal

I had to log back on to respond to this excellent post! mini, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head on two counts: the depth of writing regarding characterization/arcs on this season's BSG which seems to resonate with the fans. I don't want to go too OT here, but the enemy has now been shown such a "human face" that we really start to empathize and question the very values of what makes a person "human"? This is powerful stuff. The writers have managed to hook us by stretching our paradigm of the nature of humanity. In a way, the emergence of RepliCarter/Fifth was taking us down that path too but it never fully got us there. I think that whole Replicator arc still held a lot of potential. I already cared about this group of bad guys; I didn't need the proselytizing boring Priors preaching a new salvation.

Why is it that many of us can't seem to care deeply about the new characters on Stargate this season? Because, as you have so well written, the writers have been placing the cart before the horse. Having Lam confront her dad and Cam sit by his dying friend are wasted scenes ... the fans are not ready for this kind of exposition. In these cases, non-familiarity breeds contempt.

Hell, we still don't know what happened to Jack!!

Bring in the new characters but let the veterans be the ones to carry the stories this first/second season. When Teal'c, Daniel and Sam are reduced to wallpaper in many of the so-called pivotal scenes/eppies of S9, the overall quality of the show and connection to the characters are reduced also. Back stories are fine, but give us a reason to care first FCOL!! Treat the fans with respect by writing in some dialogue about Jack, about J/S (not more teasing ambiguity which is so patronizing and condescending), and how Jack no longer being a part of the team has impacted the SGC. This could have made our taking in the new characters much more palatable and could have provided some quality scenes for the original ensemble cast. I would have watched those kinds of scenes much more intently than these premature scenes of new-character development. Unfortunately, we didn't get this. They threw us a bone with Janet and Martouf. And, wisely, left the door open for further interaction. It seems that the writers have been writing themselves into a corner and finally realized that they may need the old characters to breathe some life and, more importantly, fan interest into the show again. Yes, I could be dead wrong about all this ... but every time I read a post about someone falling asleep or not even wanting to re-run an eppie, I seem to think I'm not too far off the mark.

Peace, CG

CG, yes, you and I see this the same way apparently.

You know, I was watching part of season six today and (I think it was an episode called "Frozen"), where they thawed that young ancient woman (Aiyana) out at an arctic outpost. The only problem of course was that she was carrying an ancient plague, which got all of them sick (leading to O'Neill having to take Kanan). Aiyana died of the plague in the end, but as I was watching, I kept thinking - WHY don't they tie this in more closely with SEASON NINE's storylines? All they've done is make scant mention of the fact that the Ori are using a plague which they themselves (and their ancient cousins) fell victim to at some point in their history, but nothing more seems forthcoming at all, and it's a crying shame.

Aiyana was three million years old (at least) and very definitely an ancient. She was able to "cure" several of the plague victims (well, everyone except O'Neill) before she passed away, yet there was no mention whatsoever during Fourth Horseman that Carter herself might have actually already had that plague! Or possibly already had the anti-bodies for it. Anti-bodies which, they ended up using to synthesize a vaccine... hello?!

Ah well, there's HUGE untapped story potential there. But that's over now. They wrecked it already. They could have tied it into the unresolved, ongoing arc so easily and not given it such a neat little ridiculous bow before they introduce us to a brand new set of Ori plans and some weird alien-hybrid super!child!villain. Argh.

*sigh*
mini

**tsaxlady** · 29 January 2006, 02:28 PM

Wow some great posts from everyone today. My brain is to fuzzy to add much of anything today. I've managed to get the newest bug going around school and having been out of it most of the weekend. A friend braught lunch over to me and he left me his newest isue of "Non-Sport Update", a magazine on trading cards. He figured I would like it since it has an artile on the soon to be released S1 Battlestar Galactica cards and new promo cards for BSG and SG-1.

I will not bore you with the article but here is a pic from the article "The Birth of Trading Card: From Concept to Consumer" Part V:The Consumer

And for anyone that does collect the cards you may want to get a copy of the magazine while it is still on the new stand because here is the SG-1 S8 P2 card which is available free with the magazine

**Agent_Dark** · 29 January 2006, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by minigeek

Aiyana died of the plague in the end, but as I was watching, I kept thinking - WHY don't they tie this in more closely with SEASON NINE's storylines? All they've done is make scant mention of the fact that the Ori are using a plague which they themselves (and their ancient cousins) fell victim to at some point in their history, but nothing more seems forthcoming at all, and it's a crying shame.

Aiyana was three million years old (at least) and very definitely an ancient. She was able to "cure" several of the plague victims (well, everyone except O'Neill) before she passed away, yet there was no mention whatsoever during Fourth Horseman that Carter herself might have actually already had that plague! Or possibly already had the anti-bodies for it. Anti-bodies which, they ended up using to synthesize a vaccine... hello?!

I know it's not the same thing, but if you watch the very first scene of Rising (Atlantis pilot) you actually see Aiyana watching Atlantis leave Earth

**ForeverSg1** · 29 January 2006, 03:00 PM

Thanks to AD, I've set a new goal for myself...

I'm going to try to become a squeeing fangirl for Sam/Amanda. I will try not allow myself to become wrapped up in the negative aspects of the show as it leads to nothing but misery on my part. I will spend my days looking at all the positive Sam moments that an episode has to offer me, whether it be Scientist!Sam, or Nurturing!Sam, or I'mTotallyGoingToKickYourA$$!Sam. I'm going to squee my way through the season with the utter joy of knowing Sam will indeed be in Season 10 no matter how pathetic the storylines become.

Sam is a great character!

Sam is an awesome character!

Sam rocks my world!

SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Hey this is making me feel better already.

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