GLB Characters

[mokarran]

Actually in the SG1-ep there's also a gay-joking-moment when Jack is waiting for Sam to turn up to their message and Daniel says something along the lines of 'If she doesn't show, people are going to think we...'

Or doesn't that count?

Yes, there a few moments where homosexuality is hinted at. But I think the point is that it's never taken seriously, it's always a throw away comment or some such... The entire 200 episode was a parody, which just means the comment can be written off, yet again.

The thing is, whenever there is such a moment, I always get really happy and squealy and say "Wow, I can't believe they said that! That's so great", but afterwards, I feel like a bit of a heel, because really, they're doing nothing but perpetuating this "safe" homosexuality that everyone can just joke about and not take seriously. Am I being stupid? Should I be happy that it even gets mentioned? I know I feel like that sometimes...

You know, it would have been really interesting if Keras had a "crush" on Sheppard. It would have been a low-key way of addressing a social issue (assuming Sheppard took it tactfully, of course), and it would have been a humorous extention of Shep's "Kirking" habit (and Shep's embarrassment would have been hilarious).

Keras! (Thanks, I just kept on thinking of him as Elliot (?) in SG-1)... I completely agree. It's not like the writers don't have plenty of opportunity to address the issue. It's just sad that they're continually scrambling for new ideas and material, but the homosexuality topic is avoided (and I'm sure others are too) because TPTB think that the reaction would be poor. So it's not worth it. Booo. Also, the Kirk thing! Ah, it would have been priceless.

[Falcon Horus]

The thing is, whenever there is such a moment, I always get really happy and squealy and say "Wow, I can't believe they said that! That's so great", but afterwards, I feel like a bit of a heel, because really, they're doing nothing but perpetuating this "safe" homosexuality that everyone can just joke about and not take seriously. Am I being stupid? Should I be happy that it even gets mentioned? I know I feel like that sometimes...

Yeah, I feel the same. So, I completely understand.

[FallenAngelII]

Speaking of Star Trek, for those in the know, there originally going to be a "gay episode" where two guest stars would gay and in a relationship. But the network pulled it due to fear of Soccer Moms protesting and whatnot.

The fan series New Voyages which continues the Star Trek franchise with fanmade (albeit well done) episodes are currently shooting a revised version of that very script!

So at least they planned to give us a gay episode. The execs were just too Sci-Fi stupid to go through with it.

Gary Jones says that he "plays Walter gay". Make of it what you will.

[Falcon Horus]

Gary Jones says that he "plays Walter gay". Make of it what you will.

Which is nice to know.

[BigPharaoh]

You know, I think a big part of making the infamous duet kiss "safe" was that the characters all gave the "proper" reaction to it. Mckay and Beckett were embarrassed becuase that is how you're suppposed to react to anything of a homophilian or homoerotic nature happens to you. Any other reaction would be too challenging. Shepard sorta make this "what the hell is going on?" face like he had never seen anything like that before. and the whole thingthing had to be wrapped in a tortilla of humor to make it safe. I can't remember where I saw it, but I think somewhere on the internet I read a post where someone actually said "it's ok becuase it's funny-gay, not gay-gay".

Sadly, I sorta think that actors themselves gave these standard reactions as well. I kinda half think that the show is made by and for "normal" people who want nothing to do with queers.

Sorry if i made no sense....

[Falcon Horus]

Duet...
Actually, in my opinion and on multiple viewing too, I find Sheppard's face to be one of "Ew, what the frell?". His nose wrinkled up in an ew-way.

I don't know, it's how I perceived it a little.

[FallenAngelII]

The writer of the episode even tried to make a joke of it in an interview. He said that in order to get David and Paul to agree to it, he called David up and said that Paul had already agreed to it and then he called Paul up and said that David had already agreed to it, making it sound like he tricked them and that they wouldn't have gone along with it otherwise.

And it was just a standard kiss, too. It was short and you couldn't see any tongue.

[grasshopper64]

Actually in the SG1-ep there's also a gay-joking-moment when Jack is waiting for Sam to turn up to their message and Daniel says something along the lines of 'If she doesn't show, people are going to think we...'

Or doesn't that count?

It was really meant as a nod to the slashers, I think, like there were nods to various fan groups and other in-jokes. Some of you might know this but MS & RDA did actually film some scenes where Jack and Daniel are holding hands at the altar and Jack takes the bouquet from Sam and gives it to Daniel.

Sadly these scenes didn't make the final ep, and chances are we won't see them now, although MS did recently say he would have kept that scene in

I agree about that Duet kiss, it's kinda sad that in this day and age anything remotely gay on the show has to be a joke

I'd be suprised if this TPTB would ever acknowledge anyone in the universe is gay in a serious way. But then IMO they have enough problems writing het relationships.....

[FallenAngelII]

I demand that they include those J/D scenes in the season 10 DVDs! How dare they remove them?! I mean, if they can spend a quarter of the episode dwelling on the Puppet Sequence, they can friggin give us Slashers a good 50 seconds!

It's not like they had anything to be afraid of. What if some people got "offended" and called Sci-Fi? What was Sci-Fi going to do, cancel them again?!

[mokarran]

I'd be suprised if this TPTB would ever acknowledge anyone in the universe is gay in a serious way. But then IMO they have enough problems writing het relationships.....

I'm not looking for a fully explored homosexual relationship (wow wouldn't that be nice)... Just, you know, some acknowledgment that homosexuality exists. *sigh* A person can dream...

This brings me to a question that probably belongs in another thread (please direct me there if you know of one), but do we know how many GLBT sci-fi fans there are out there? I think it'd probably be surprising to those suit-types higher up (or at least I could hope it would). The average American male ingrained homophobia probably negates any of that anyway... Or maybe I've just been hanging out with the wrong people and there actually aren't as many of us as I thought... Well, either way. Does anyone know of any information regarding this?

[Commander Ivanova]

I'm not looking for a fully explored homosexual relationship (wow wouldn't that be nice)... Just, you know, some acknowledgment that homosexuality exists. *sigh* A person can dream...

This brings me to a question that probably belongs in another thread (please direct me there if you know of one), but do we know how many GLBT sci-fi fans there are out there? I think it'd probably be surprising to those suit-types higher up (or at least I could hope it would). The average American male ingrained homophobia probably negates any of that anyway... Or maybe I've just been hanging out with the wrong people and there actually aren't as many of us as I thought... Well, either way. Does anyone know of any information regarding this?

I guess the closest we've come to an acknowledgement is Shep asking Ronon (sort of) if he dated men. But it's not much, is it?
As for your query re numbers of GLBT sci fi fans, no idea. Shall we ask the mods if we can do a poll?

[mokarran]

Shall we ask the mods if we can do a poll?

Well, I'd sure like to see the results, but I'm afraid people might think the question is a little too personal? They wouldn't have to answer it though...


Does anyone else find it interesting that all of the (Atlantis) episodes that we've been talking about were written by Martin Gero? I'm also not sure about specifics, but he was involved in the writing of 200, as well...

[Major Tyler]

Does anyone else find it interesting that all of the (Atlantis) episodes that we've been talking about were written by Martin Gero? I'm also not sure about specifics, but he was involved in the writing of 200, as well...

Speculating about a writer's sexual orientation is a bit too personal, in my opinion. Let's not go there, please.

[mokarran]

Speculating about a writer's sexual orientation is a bit too personal, in my opinion. Let's not go there, please.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that he was gay... I'm a big fan of his episodes and the fact that he's one of the only writers to try to approach the subject (and the only one to take it seriously if we don't count that Sunday discussion as a joke) just makes me think that much higher of him...

[FallenAngelII]

I'm not looking for a fully explored homosexual relationship (wow wouldn't that be nice)... Just, you know, some acknowledgment that homosexuality exists. *sigh* A person can dream...

They have... but only jokingly.

There's:
* Daniel going "No, no, no, please, no." when Vala, in a super-soldier suit, came onto him.
* Daniel and Jack's thing in "200"
* Duet-kiss
* And probably more

The only non-joke reference was the John asking Ronon about past relationships scene.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that he was gay... I'm a big fan of his episodes and the fact that he's one of the only writers to try to approach the subject (and the only one to take it seriously if we don't count that Sunday discussion as a joke) just makes me think that much higher of him...

I noticed that "Sunday" was very... um... "fey". There was the whole Carson asking pretty much every guy he knew about going fishing (instead of asking a woman out on a date), other random things I'm forgetting at the moment and the whole snapping of the fingers thing.

It was a very "Gay Carson" episode. I even made a thread about it. Of course, less-than-open-minded people flamed me and said "It was hurtful" that I was implying that Carson might be gay or at least bisexual.