Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[ChillinTheMost]

What were the words his friend used to describe Mitchell? Bullheaded, rash, hotheaded? I get bullheaded [in spades], rash [somewhat, but controlled], but hotheaded? Have we seen anything to remotely think he's hotheaded? Maybe I'm forgetting something, so please provide examples if you remember any. Maybe, maybe, the 'break the glass in the coffee machine' scene, but that was more frustration than hotheaded. Opinions?

[Kas]

I agree, but I want to add one more motivation to Mitchell rushing into the fray. Mitchell thought that his friend would have this job if he hadn't been injured saving his life, so a part of Mitchell felt like he shouldn't be there or didn't deserve to be there - maybe didn't even deserve to be alive since the price paid for his life was so high. While his primary motivation was that the job needed to be done, he may have done it himself partly because he thought he was expendible, in that he felt he didn't fully deserve to be there in the first place.

Most of time I think he can get around these feelings of guilt and get the job done, but that guilt was brought to the front of his memories too recently and he was feeling, if not suicidal, at least expendible.

Absolutely. I also feel as if he wanted to do this right for Fergie! I see that some peeps don't see any tie in with the Teal'c and Mitchell storylines. Once again I can't see this... Mitchell and his friend wasn't about learning to care for someone you didn't know (although I really liked him and Reed Diamond in the role... pity that can't be taken further with him joining SGC), it was about Mitchell and the conflicts he is having to face. On one hand you have internal conflict for a friend who is certain to die and on the other a new friend being externally tortured and who may very well die. Mitchell, although wanting to stay, had to wrestle with the conflict and make a choice either to stay with one who he couldn't save or go and help a friend he possibly could save. Fergie gave him that release and faith in who he is... if there was one thing Mitchell was not going to do and that was to fail either of these two men he calls friends.

[Kas]

What were the words his friend used to describe Mitchell? Bullheaded, rash, hotheaded? I get bullheaded [in spades], rash [somewhat, but controlled], but hotheaded? Have we seen anything to remotely think he's hotheaded? Maybe I'm forgetting something, so please provide examples if you remember any. Maybe, maybe, the 'break the glass in the coffee machine' scene, but that was more frustration than hotheaded. Opinions?

I think it was Cam himself that said he was a hot-head and not Fergie. He went on to say it was a side of himself that he's not particularly fond of. I haven't really seen this portrayed either but then again he's probably got a different outlook on life with the near-death experiences he's been through himself... perhaps he's learnt that life is too short and/or to repress it somewhat since seeing what happened to his friend through something he feels his 'hot headedness' was responsible for. As long as he doesn't lose that instinctive edge, I'll be happy. As Fergie says... 'you need to be a little nuts'.

[greytop]

Thanks, but I already have too many movie channels that I don't have time to watch without adding Netflix to the equation. That's why I wanted to know if it was on cable.

Netfix is not on television. It is where you can rent movies (like Blockbuster, etc) through the internet.

[ChillinTheMost]

Netfix is not on television. It is where you can rent movies (like Blockbuster, etc) through the internet.

I realize that. Sorry if I was unclear. What I meant is that I have so many movie channels that joining the Netflix mail order club would just give me more movies I don't have time to watch, plus the monthly fee.

[ChillinTheMost]

I think it was Cam himself that said he was a hot-head and not Fergie. He went on to say it was a side of himself that he's not particularly fond of. I haven't really seen this portrayed either but then again he's probably got a different outlook on life with the near-death experiences he's been through himself... perhaps he's learnt that life is too short and/or to repress it somewhat since seeing what happened to his friend through something he feels his 'hot headedness' was responsible for. As long as he doesn't lose that instinctive edge, I'll be happy. As Fergie says... 'you need to be a little nuts'.

Ah, I couldn't remember who said what. I guess everyone loses their temper sometimes, I just don't see it being a character trait of Mitchell. Of course, if he's the one that said it, he might be remembering the one or two times he lost his temper and the consequences were such that he thinks he loses it too much. Or maybe he does, and he's learned to control it better, like you said. He seems like the kind of guy that would definitely work on a character trait in himself that he finds flawed.

[MissFarrahScape]

Hi Chillin, I think we will see where the hot-headedness of Mitchell comes into play. The 2 or more years of rehab probably tempered his younger instincts to act before thinking it through. Now a little older and a lot wiser, he has better control...unless push comes to shove...and that just may be what is in the works. That should kick the acting up a degree or two.

[ChillinTheMost]

Welcome, MissFarrahScape!

It could be interesting and I'll enjoy watching Ben do anything that allows him to really get out there and act!

...Even if it'll start the moaning and complaining in some other threads!

[Dream-a-Little]

This was posted on Sony Board - a transcript of Ben and Amanda's interviews regarding Mitchell from the Canadian Space Special that's just aired.


Quote:

BEN BROWDER: "Cameron Mitchell’s a guy who has a switch in his head, which shuts off and reason goes out the window and he just reacts and that’s kind of a fun thing, as an actor, to play. He doesn’t try to over-think situations, nor is he stupid, but at that point where it’s time to do something, the switch goes to the left and he does what he needs to do. It’s sort of an interesting dynamic. He may think about it and regret it afterwards, but at that point of decision-making it’s the lizard brain telling him what to do."


AMANDA TAPPING: "Ben has a whole different way of leading a team than Richard. Or, I should say, Col. Mitchell than General O’Neill. General O’Neill had this sort of flip, sarcastic, sort of, you know, he deferred to everyone else and to our levels of expertise, and Col. Mitchell is a military leader – “Let’s go in there and smash ’em up and get it done” – and, you know, very much Action Man. So the team feels a lot different and we sort of compensate in our ways for that. I’m still techno girl, and Michael’s still very much about the mythology and Chris is still the expert on the Jaffa and, you know, we still all have our areas of expertise but we still have to juggle this new guy, figure out how to get around him."

Ok, first of all forgive me for cutting and pasting from various posts on this thread without attributing to whose they are.

The Space interview was an on set interview that was done, I believe, the last week of shooting for season 9. It's the first time Ben actually described Mitchell. Up to this point we get, he's a work in progress, I can't really say who he is etc. etc., plus numerous references to the fact that Mitchell will be the end result of a lot of people's decisions. (Note to producers, creating a character by committee, not such a good idea. Better somebody’s clearly focused vision no matter what that vision is, than a lot of people who can’t make up their minds. And no, I don't think he was saying this because he was avoiding spoilers. The Space interview was to be shown before any of season 9 aired in Canada. And he was more than willing to comment on the character. This was probably because he was just so darn grateful to finally have a clearly defined committed to character to comment on! See comments below.) So this really stood out for me. But my reaction was, uhh that's not the Mitchell we have gotten so far. He's not even remotely being written that way.

And then I got this Beau Bridges quote from a German magazine translation:

BeauB: Yes, he does, concerning Ben Browder alias Lt. Col Cameron Mitchell. He joins the team on request of General Landry. He wants Mitchell on the team so from time to time he tends to protect him and his little escapades. Probably because he knows that the man has the right attitude, but maybe needs to work a little on his military discipline. So Mitchell is the rookie on the team and Landry is some kind of military foster-father for him.

And I went, uhh, aside from it taking so long for him to put the team together, uhh what little escapades does Landry feel it necessary to protect him from? Mitchell's been involved in "escapades"? Needs to work on his military discipline? For the most part Mitchell has been the good soldier with pretty darn good military discipline.


Dizzy yet, I know I am! From the very beginning I've gotten the impression that they basically put Ben in the first episode and then essentially shoved him off into a corner and kept saying we'll get back to you in regards to clearly defining and committing to whom Mitchell should be. The poor guy kept saying in interview after interview after interview that he couldn't say who Mitchell was because no one was willing to say; hey this is who you're playing, honest, cross our hearts for sure! He was telling you that he didn't know who Mitchell was because he genuinely didn't know who Mitchell was going to end up being! It was basically, hey go out there and riff until we make up our minds. And you thought it took a long time for the Jaffa to come to agreement! Again, creating a character by committee = BAD IDEA, an utterly painfully slow process, and oh yeah, did I say BAD IDEA?

So then we get Stronghold where Cam describes himself as a hot head who loses control and Fergie's description of who Cam is: "You're someone who sees his opportunities and takes them. You've got to be a little angry, a little out of control, a little crazy to do the things that we have been asked to do and that they are asking you to do now. You can't afford to over think things or you'd just freeze up. NOW THAT description fits the quotes you have above. That's a guy who is a bit of a loose cannon, someone who is not easily controlled.

Small problem though, nothing that they have written provides the foundation for where they now seem to want to take the character. That's because that's not who the character was until just now! Hot head? Angry? Out of control? A little crazy? They had no foundation to take him there. If you just start writing him that way it’s like where the heck did that come from! You either have to have an episode where something happens to the character that effects him in such a way as to move him in the direction that you want to take him, or you go the route they just did. They approach it from the angle that we don't know Mitchell that well. This is just a side of him that you haven't seen before. And his good friend Fergie, who is a position to know him very well, lets you in on it. That's their foundation to move the character in the direction that they now seem to want to take him.

Now personally, I think that writing the character this way can make for a much more fun character for Ben to play than the way that he was being so broadly and vaguely written. And I wouldn’t have objected to them taking this direction from the get go. But hey, writers, you idiots, uhh episode 14 before you can make up your pea brain minds as to who you want Mitchell to be! Come on! Ben deserved way better! My guess is that season nine left him even way dizzier than I am!

[ShardsofGlass]

Dream, I completely agree with everything you've said! I remember an early interview from Ben where he wouldn't say very much about the character and how he played him differently to give the editors/directors options. Then he sort of slipped into the interview that on FS, Crichton had been a really well-defined character from the get-go. And I remember thinking at the time, "uh oh, Mitchell's not that defined yet. This can't be good." But then I forgot about it because I thought Ben was just being close-mouthed about him.

Then in this episode we hear that he's hotheaded and rash? I can see him being impulsive. We saw that with the sword and the switch, but we have never ever seen him be hotheaded, and I'm not sure we ever will. Even in this ep, he never seemed that way. Even when he went toward the rings he seemed more determined and focused than anything else.

Personally, I'm hoping that Mitchell will be pretty close to how we've seen him so far, but there will be a side to him that is a touch more reckless, versus completely turning him around 180. But I still can't buy the hotheadedness.

Here's a thought. I read somewhere that Ben and the guy who played Fergie ad-libbed a lot of the hospital scenes. What if Ben threw in "hot-headed" and the writers never intended that particular word? It's a loaded word, so you'd think they would've changed it in ADR or something. Or maybe I'm wrong.

The thing is, I don't mind if he's hotheaded or reckless or whatever. I mind that Mitchell was describing a person we haven't met yet. That's what's so weird about the scene. It was fine until that part. And I'm very curious to see if Mitchell is back to his old self or if he's different in the upcoming eps.

[Anya]

Oooh, DaL! I SO just quoted exactly what you just quoted on the Terra Firma (FS) board. It seemed to fit Mitchell's actions in Stronghold perfectly! However, when I first saw this special and interviews (when was it? November?!) I hadn't seen any of that either.

Ben mentioned at the Burbank con that he prefers his characters speak for themselves, his own motives and ideas for the character, verbalized, would only color the ideas of the audience. So I found him describing Mitchell here to be interesting also, for the reasons you mentioned above.

I'm just glad we're finally getting a three-dimensional character in Mitchell, and I've really enjoyed all the episodes in this back half of season 9. All I know is, I can't wait to see more!

[Neelan_Liquor]

I have a feeling that you guys are equating the adjective hotheaded with quick-tempered... and that's only one definition of the term. It also means impetuous which I think Mitchell is. You've said that he's impulsive, which is a kinder way of saying impetuous, so we have seen him like this.

I absolutely don't want to see him suddenly quick-tempered, 'cause that is NOT the guy we've been shown so far. In spite of the coffee machine incident, which I think arose from his helplessness and frustration of the moment, Mitchell is not a quick-tempered or violently rash man. He most definately does behave instinctively and without a lot of forethought... but usually when the occasion requires it. From his introduction in the Avalon flashbacks, he's behaved in a way that would save lives and get the job done, even if it's resulted in injury or death for himself or others (remember his gunner?), because he reacts impetuously. So he is a bit hotheaded.

Did that make any sense to you?

[Dream-a-Little]

Dream, I completely agree with everything you've said! I remember an early interview from Ben where he wouldn't say very much about the character and how he played him differently to give the editors/directors options. Then he sort of slipped into the interview that on FS, Crichton had been a really well-defined character from the get-go. And I remember thinking at the time, "uh oh, Mitchell's not that defined yet. This can't be good." But then I forgot about it because I thought Ben was just being close-mouthed about him.

Then in this episode we hear that he's hotheaded and rash? I can see him being impulsive. We saw that with the sword and the switch, but we have never ever seen him be hotheaded, and I'm not sure we ever will. Even in this ep, he never seemed that way. Even when he went toward the rings he seemed more determined and focused than anything else.

Personally, I'm hoping that Mitchell will be pretty close to how we've seen him so far, but there will be a side to him that is a touch more reckless, versus completely turning him around 180. But I still can't buy the hotheadedness.

Here's a thought. I read somewhere that Ben and the guy who played Fergie ad-libbed a lot of the hospital scenes. What if Ben threw in "hot-headed" and the writers never intended that particular word? It's a loaded word, so you'd think they would've changed it in ADR or something. Or maybe I'm wrong.

The thing is, I don't mind if he's hotheaded or reckless or whatever. I mind that Mitchell was describing a person we haven't met yet. That's what's so weird about the scene. It was fine until that part. And I'm very curious to see if Mitchell is back to his old self or if he's different in the upcoming eps.

This definitely feels like a significant character shift to me. The Mitchell/Fergie part of the episode IMO seemed to exist entirely to get to the scene where we get Fergie's description of Cam. And that description matches up pretty closely to Ben's Space Channel quote made during the last week of shooting. And I felt then that Ben was describing a person that we hadn’t met yet. So it really does seem likely to be something that's carried on over throughout the rest of season 9. Mitchell's description of himself may have been exaggerated, since he was feeling a lot of guilt. But, Fergies's description of Cam seems to be dead on to what Ben was describing. And up until now, that's not IMO the Cam we have been getting.

It also fits more closely with AT's quotes and Beau Bridges quotes. A get in there smash it up military guy? Mitchell’s actually been rather restrained in using force. He hasn’t been a shoot first; ask question later kind of guy. In previous episodes he’s always tried to diffuse situations before using force. And up to this point, Mitchell has been waaay more deferential to Sam's and Daniel's level of expertise than Jack ever seemed to be. Maybe Amanda is just not very perceptive or doesn't express herself well?

Mitchell need’s to work on his military discipline or be protected from his escapades? Maybe Beau Bridges’ quote lost something in the translation from English to German and back to English?

It's not that I don't think they aren’t going to keep certain things that we have seen. I don’t think it’s a total 180. They've reinforced Cam's love of adventure in CD (10 year old Mitchell gazing in awe at the first shuttle launch) and here in Stronghold ("that silly blood oath we swore to get into the space program or die trying"). But it does feel that they are shifting the character fairly strongly in a different enough direction that you end up with a different dynamic at play, enough that he is going to do some things that you wouldn't have expected him to do prior to this episode. Right now we have a lot of contradictions on the table, I’m not sure exactly how far we are going with this, but it feels like we are going someplace different.

[Anya]

Mitchell need’s to work on his military discipline or be protected from his escapades? Maybe Beau Bridges’ quote lost something in the translation from English to German and back to English?

I'm really hoping that this is the case.

[Dream-a-Little]

Oooh, DaL! I SO just quoted exactly what you just quoted on the Terra Firma (FS) board. It seemed to fit Mitchell's actions in Stronghold perfectly! However, when I first saw this special and interviews (when was it? November?!) I hadn't seen any of that either.

Ben mentioned at the Burbank con that he prefers his characters speak for themselves, his own motives and ideas for the character, verbalized, would only color the ideas of the audience. So I found him describing Mitchell here to be interesting also, for the reasons you mentioned above.

I'm just glad we're finally getting a three-dimensional character in Mitchell, and I've really enjoyed all the episodes in this back half of season 9. All I know is, I can't wait to see more!

There's been a lot of things that I think the writers have definitely done better with Mitchell in the second half of the season than the first, things that didn't actually contradict anything that came before but put them in a different context and put "stronger legs" under them.

I think that what we got about Mitchell and his father in CD put emotional resonance to a back story that up until then had been words on paper.

I think that the gulf incident he was involved in works far better as a character motivation for his determination to get the original SG-1 back together than the "I want to work with my hero's approach" they seemed to give as his reason in the first half of the season. As leader of SG-1 he must make decisions and take action based on the analysis and recommendations of his teammates. He knows first hand the consequences of taking action on faulty information. He was devastated enough by the Gulf incident that he nearly resigned his commission. Why wouldn't he be insistent on working with the best? I also never could figure out why Landry let him get away with taking so long to put together a team. Landry just didn't seem like the type to put up with that. But if the Gulf incident was the reason behind that and Landry knew about that incident, which he did, then that makes perfect sense to me why Landry would cut Mitchell some slack. That's the kind of thing that another military man would understand.

Mitchell's scene with Fergie where he talks about being afraid of screwing up again mirrors the scene he had with Sam in Avalon Part I. In the scene with Fergie, Mitchell perceives, rightly or wrongly, that he has a reckless streak and that's why he is afraid he'll make a mistake. They never come out and say exactly why he is afraid of making a mistake in the scene with Sam. I think some people felt he was afraid he would screw up because he doubted his leadership skills or felt he lacked experience and he wanted Sam on the team to make up for that. But this scene with Fergie puts the scene with Sam in a different context. If what Mitchell fears the most is what he perceives as a reckless streak in himself, then it was far more likely that he wanted Sam on the team because she is a character of logic and reason. This was something that he would be well aware of because she was also a friend. Someone like that could be reasonably expected to temper his perceived reckless streak.

All of these things, in my opinion, make for a far stronger and richer character than the writer’s first pass at him. And none negate anything that came before. It’s just when we start to head into his future that we seem to be getting contradictions. When you look at it from strictly at how challenging is the role, taking the character in a more loose cannon direction could be a lot more fun for him to play. It’s not that I disagree with where they are going with the character or with other things they have done here in the second half. I simply can’t figure out why not just have written the character flat out this way to begin with.