Originally posted by ChillinTheMost
A Prophecy is primarily about Mitchell and his discovery of some cool abilities, I've had a bit of writers bloc on it recently... I try.
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You make a good point, and that's probably just my own personality coming through into the characters I'm supposed to write IN character. However, it was my first run at Cameron's perspective... I try... ohh how I try. I just love the character. I also think there is a shy side to Mitchell, though maybe Lam should've been more shy or unsure. Ahh, maybe for another time.
A Prophecy is primarily about Mitchell and his discovery of some cool abilities, I've had a bit of writers bloc on it recently... I try.
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Thanks for the scans, kas. I love reading BB interviews; this one wasn't quite as manic as his other ones, but maybe that's because he's no longer under the influence of Crichton
One thing I found funny on the thread was the mention of a Col Mitchell s10 black hole. The same is being said about Carter. And Teal'c. And Daniel. I guess everyone figures Claudia Black's gonna come back and become the star? It's just ironic that everyone feels their favorite is being shunted aside for some other character.
At any rate, just an observation. I'm sure TPTB are going to do their darnedest to keep things balanced and interesting.Comment
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"I'm sure TPTB are going to do their darnedest to keep things balanced and interesting."Originally posted by esoap524
Hmmm.....
If only they had managed to do that in the first 10 episodes of season 9...
My observations:
Sam fans have some legitimate off screen after the completion of season 9 shooting reasons to cause fear for the well being of her character. I truly do empathize with them. But that is something to be argued and discussed on the Sam threads.
Teal'c has always been wallpaper, after all this time, I don't think anyone really thinks that's going to change in season 10. Again, a topic for a Teal'c thread.
I am not sure why anyone would be concerned for Daniel. In fact the Daniel fans' comments that I have read, seem to be favorable for season 10. They mostly seem to assume that Vala means more screen time for Daniel. That is probably a reasonable assumption. But again really a topic for the Daniel threads.
The Vala fans mostly just seem upset that anyone could possibly view the arrival of Vala full time as anything other than a glorious event. They also seem to want to keep going on various character threads and admonishing fans of those characters against expressing any kind of misgivings about Vala and season 10. And that's fine, but it probably is counter productive to their cause. I don't go over and argue that they should feel good about the command issue on the Sam thread for instance, since I don't think it will accomplish anything and in fact would probably just aggravate a touchy situation. They feel what they feel. I don't agree with them, but it's the Sam thread, let them vent in peace.
Again, all of the above, my observations only.
Back to Mitchell.
That Mitchell was neglected by the writers in the first part of this season is something that I have seen expressed by fans of various persuasions and on various websites. Even by fans who are not pro Mitchell. So I think it's fair to say there is actually something to it.
I also think there is a reasonable tendency to expect more of the same treatment until the show runners actually give us reason to believe otherwise. Vala's return makes it "look" like we are repeating the dynamic of the beginning of season nine. For me, that dynamic was uneven and a bad experience. I don't want to repeat it. Add to that the fact that Joe was pitching season 10 Sam episodes, Daniel episodes and at least one Vala episode, but nothing for Mitchell and that there were no Mitchell mentions at all until the last few days... Hence the black hole observation.
The information we have gotten so far on the rest of season 9 looks far better for Mitchell (and for actual team episodes) than the advance info that we got for the earlier part of the season. I am hoping that the last part of season 9 will take away the bad taste left by the writers' neglect of Mitchell in the first part of the season. And I will continue to look hopefully for signs that season 10 will not bring that bad taste back. That's basically what I was doing when I made that black hole comment. I do truly want to believe that season 10 will be a balanced season overall, but right now it's a once bitten, twice shy kind of thing for me.
All the above statements are of course based on my own observations and yes are just my opinion, as ironic as they may be. Peace, love and all that jazz! Here's hoping we get some great fun stuff in the next few months to talk about on this thread! Come on January 6th!
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Don't get me wrong, I applaud your efforts. Also, my perception of the characters isn't any more correct than any one else's. [Well, except for those that say bad things about Mitchell. Those people are completely wrong!Originally posted by Cpt. RitterYou make a good point, and that's probably just my own personality coming through into the characters I'm supposed to write IN character. However, it was my first run at Cameron's perspective... I try... ohh how I try. I just love the character. I also think there is a shy side to Mitchell, though maybe Lam should've been more shy or unsure. Ahh, maybe for another time.
A Prophecy is primarily about Mitchell and his discovery of some cool abilities, I've had a bit of writers bloc on it recently... I try.
] Keep writing!
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I can understand how everyone wants their favorite to be front and center all the time. Heck, I want that for Mitchell, because I'm greedy like that. And, yes, the fear is very real that Vala will once again take over the show. However, I am also taking the wait-and-see approach [like I have a choice otherwise]. I can certainly emphasize with those that are wary about future episodes.Originally posted by esoap524Thanks for the scans, kas. I love reading BB interviews; this one wasn't quite as manic as his other ones, but maybe that's because he's no longer under the influence of Crichton
One thing I found funny on the thread was the mention of a Col Mitchell s10 black hole. The same is being said about Carter. And Teal'c. And Daniel. I guess everyone figures Claudia Black's gonna come back and become the star? It's just ironic that everyone feels their favorite is being shunted aside for some other character.
At any rate, just an observation. I'm sure TPTB are going to do their darnedest to keep things balanced and interesting.Comment
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Although Sam fans [of which I am one] have to remember that Amanda was working less hours in the beginning to acclimate herself to working with a baby on the set. I believe she asked for less hours. I don't know when that ended, but I'm hopeful for more screen time in future episodes.Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
And yet some of the Daniel fans seem the most fanatical. [Now upstaged by some Vala fans.] Some seem to feel that unless every episode is Daniel -heavy, there is a problem. [Not equal-Daniel, but Daniel-heavy.]Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
For the Daniel fans that feel this way, I can understand their excitement. Good things may be coming for them!Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
Yikes. Luckily, our little thread seems unnoticed by all but a few of us. Nice and cozy here...Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
Me, neither.Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
One comment about that. Well, actually a rationalization that I hope is true. There was quite the backlash when season 9 ads and interviews and articles focused on Browder/Mitchell. Many Stargate fans became upset that that FarScape guy was going to take front seat over the Stargate characters that they loved. They felt that their beloved characters weren't given enough credit or promotion. While I understand what TPTB were trying to do, I can also understand the concern of the fans. Maybe TPTB understood belatedly, too. TPTB may be trying for the opposite tack this time by emphasizing the long-term Stargate characters. However, if history is any indication, it won't mean any more in ad time vs. show time than the ads for the beginning of season 9 did.Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
Amen.Originally posted by Dream-a-Little
Originally posted by Dream-a-Little...Here's hoping we get some great fun stuff in the next few months to talk about on this thread! Come on January 6th!
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I was thinking the same thing. That Joe was leery of saying too much about Mitchell because of the other backlashes against him. However, I'm also just as worried that Mitchell will beonce again wallpapered. Technically, however, because Ben has top billing, he should almost always get at least as much screen time and dialogue as everyone else. In fact, he should get more and should be the window through which we watch the show. At least that's the way I understand the role of the lead of a series, which is what Ben is.Originally Posted by ChillinTheMost
One comment about that. Well, actually a rationalization that I hope is true. There was quite the backlash when season 9 ads and interviews and articles focused on Browder/Mitchell. Many Stargate fans became upset that that FarScape guy was going to take front seat over the Stargate characters that they loved. They felt that their beloved characters weren't given enough credit or promotion. While I understand what TPTB were trying to do, I can also understand the concern of the fans. Maybe TPTB understood belatedly, too. TPTB may be trying for the opposite tack this time by emphasizing the long-term Stargate characters. However, if history is any indication, it won't mean any more in ad time vs. show time than the ads for the beginning of season 9 did.
And I keep telling myself that the first 6 eps of the season were an anamoly. Carter was gone. The writers were introducing a lot of stuff and they wanted to make full use of Claudia while they had her. Still, I didn't notice a big shift once Vala left and Carter came back. Ex Deus Machina was still a bad Mitchell ep. Babylon was a good one, obviously. Prototype was a Daniel ep but Mitchell wasn't completely wallpapered. Things felt more even. And the Fourth Horseman had a large cast doing a ton of things, but I liked how Mitchell was portrayed in that ep.
What I think bothers me the most is the way Mitchell is portrayed in group scenes with the rest of the cast. He's so often in the back of the pack with poor lighting and less closeups. That's the main thing that annoys me. I also don't like the way his only contribution in a discussion is hte humorous quip. I think that's why I liked TFH. Mitchell had some more serious moments where he came across as more authoritative, and I really hope that side of him comes to the fore in the second half.Comment
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I'm hoping that the arrival of Vala as a full time character (which should work out) shouldn't cause Mitchell any shortcomings, that is, if we can rely on TPTB not to skimp on one character or another, such as us poor Atlantis fans, which are suffering horribly right now. I know Mitchell has the potential to be way more than Colonel O'Neill (Don't get me wrong, he had his great moments, but he's gone, leaving Ben Browder to fill his shoes) I'm crossing my fingers and praying. Season 9 part 2 comes... very soon, 8 days I think!
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An yet he discusses Vala quite readily. That character too, has experienced some backlash as well. Perhaps he can't discuss Mitchell's involvement in season 10 because it relates too closely to events that happen in the back half of season 9?Originally posted by ShardsofGlass
I guess I am most afraid that Mitchell will fall by the wayside because he presents more of a challenge to write for than Vala does. Vala is easy. She doesn't come with all the land mines that Mitchell comes with. Mitchell is replacing a well loved character. The last time the writers had to do that they failed miserably. To be put in the position of having to try to do that again has to be a very scary thing. The command issues make it even thornier. Why focus on doing something difficult and risky when you can shift your attention to something easy and fun? And hey, if you can ignore it long enough, maybe it will eventually just go away. And then you don't have to deal with it at all.
SG-1 has always been a team show and I never expected it to turn into the "Cam Mitchell show". But, I never expected it to be the "everything but Cam Mitchell show" either. Certainly as lead actor his screen time and importance to the story should be equal to both Daniel and Sam. He definitely should not be treated as a secondary character. And I sure didn't expect to be sitting here wondering if they are going to wallpaper him in season 10!However, I'm also just as worried that Mitchell will beonce again wallpapered. Technically, however, because Ben has top billing, he should almost always get at least as much screen time and dialogue as everyone else. In fact, he should get more and should be the window through which we watch the show. At least that's the way I understand the role of the lead of a series, which is what Ben is.
That was really bad all the way up to and including Ex Dues Machina. In fact that scene with Teal'c and Mitchell in the council chamber where Teal'c stops him from talking really seemed to sum up how Star Gate was treating his character. I don't know if JM realized it played that way when he wrote it or not. But it was kind of scary.What I think bothers me the most is the way Mitchell is portrayed in group scenes with the rest of the cast. He's so often in the back of the pack with poor lighting and less closeups. That's the main thing that annoys me.
He was back so far in so many of the shots from those episodes that he was just shy of being in the next room. The three paces behind the other main characters type of blocking in some of the other scenes was idiotic too. Thou shall stand three paces behind the real Star Gate actors! Do you not know how to show respect! But when he had to step out of the scene in the TTTB when Vala came over and stood next to Daniel and go over behind a cart to deliver his lines... That was my major oh puhleez moment! Those type of things, however, did not seem to occur in Babylon, Prototype and FHM1. So I guess that is progress. The screen time also seemed to be more even with the other characters.
I like Mitchell's humor. I don't like the fact that pretty much everything factual that we know of Mitchell came in the first episode and then we got pretty much nothing after that. Even Babylon, while I welcomed the additional Mitchell screen time, was really more of a Sodan episode than a Mitchell episode. This early in the game, a real Mitchell episode should have left us knowing more about the character at the end than we did at the beginning. Babylon repeated what we got in the first episode, but didn't really add anything new. He gets some nifty new fighting skills, but it really didn't give us a better understanding of who he is. In the episodes before this, Mitchell has spent a lot of time just "tagging along behind" the other characters. In Babylon, it was kind of like they just switched him to tagging along behind the Sodan.I also don't like the way his only contribution in a discussion is hte humorous quip. I think that's why I liked TFH. Mitchell had some more serious moments where he came across as more authoritative, and I really hope that side of him comes to the fore in the second half.
I don't like the way that they are still isolating him from the rest of the team. For the most part, his interactions with them have been brief and superficial. He has not had the opportunity to form any kind of genuine and unique relationship with any of them.
As for his leadership abilities, it makes me roll my eyes when people say he is a bad leader. Since when has he had a chance to lead anything! Isolating him from the rest of the team has pretty much put the kibosh to that. Does he have the background to merit command of SG-1? Well since we know absolutely nothing about his military career besides that one battle, how can you possibly say one way or the other?
Right now, 10 episodes in, Mitchell is pretty much in the exact same place as he was in episode one. He is very much the outsider who we know very little about. The show so far flirts with him but hasn't shown any signs of wanting a serious relationship. He hasn't been tied into the storyline in any serious way. He hasn't been tied into the other characters in any serious way. Even his connection to the Sodan could be taken over by Teal'c if need be. They haven't committed to the character in a way that would cause problems for them story wise if they had to take him out. So what has all this been, some kind of trial period? Should we assume that he "passed" since the back half of the season looks like it has more substance for him and he was asked back for season 10? For whatever reason, it really seems that there really was never any intention by the TPTB to go anywhere with this character before the midseason break.
So maybe the best way to approach the second half of the season is to come at it like The Fourth Horseman part II is really the second half of Avalon part I and wait to see if they're ready to get serious.Last edited by Dream-a-Little; 29 December 2005, 07:29 PM.Comment
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Well, Dream-a-little, that seems like a sane overview of the first part of the Season. It could not be more apparent to me that the Stargate producers have hired Ben to bring in scapers to replace the viewers lost by RDA's departure. So far, it's worked. But, so far the way the Mitchell character has been written and staged, it is almost as if the writers have deliberately sabotaged the character so that he will not have much chance to win over the existing fan base. As has been mentioned on other threads, guest parts of other Colonels in field command have been written better. Or, perhaps too many scenes between the actors that would have established Mitchell's character and ability to lead have been cut leaving his skills in the field seemingly ambiguous. It is really too bad Ben's addition to the cast has been handled so poorly; he is a mighty fine actor and could contribute much to the story line if he was allowed to do his job. My only consolation is that he signed contracts and no matter if he is in a scene, has one line or none--he will still take his pay check home. Hopefully, he is laughing all the way to the bank. Thanks to all of you who post here and keep Mitchell's/Ben's name in a positive thread. I get really exasperated by the negativity aimed at both the actor and the character thrown out on other threads. Some of the comments made on Joe's blog have made me really angry. My time to come online is very limited but I do lurk when I can and always scan this thread first. Keep up the good work everyone. Best wishes for a great new year.Comment
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Joe's been talking about Mitchell and leadership on his blog. Here are the pertinent quotes:
Why DO YOU think many fans just feel indifferent toward Mitchell?"
A number of reasons. The fact is that all of the other characters have already got a pre-established background going for them (our three other leads, the character of Vala who was introduced in Prometheus Unbound and is, unarguably, a very colorful character). Mitchell, on the other hand, is the new kid on the block and, as such, is less defined than the other characters. He's a little more difficult to categorize (ie. stoic warrior, scientist, rogue) and, like the others, will acquire depth and a fuller character over time. The problem is, Mitchell was introduced at a time when were introducing a bunch of other major series elements and, as a result, we didn't get the opportunity explore him as much as we may have wanted to - something that we rectify in the back half of season 9 with episodes like Stronghold and Collateral Damage.
As for the command issue, it was a compromise in so far as, a year ago while we were planning season 9, the writers did debate the topic and ultimately decided Carter and Mitchell would share leadership of the team. Who is in charge is entirely mission-dependent.
8:59 PM
JMallozzi said...
"If it's something you purposely wrote in, then why won't you state it in an episode? Are you embarrassed by the idea {or are the fans just supposed to figure it out on their own}?"
At the time, it really wasn't an issue. There were never any points in the individual episodes where it would be a problem (and, qutie frankly, very difficult to back-sell episodes later. Its not unlike the problem we had with Jonas's homeworld. After several episodes, we realized that although we'd named his nation, Kelowna, we had never named his planet - and the longer we waited, the more awkward it became to cleanly reveal). No backsell in season 9, but we did briefly discuss a scenario by which the command issue would be clarified in season 10.
9:39 PM
JMallozzi said...
"I get the other major series elements being introduced, but you chose to feature Vala prominently in the first 5-6 episodes and I don't think her character needed to be all that closely linked with the intro of the Ori."
Disagree. Vala's introduction in season 9 was nicely tied into the Ori storyline. As such, she was a driving force for those first six episodes. Also, Vala would pretty much overwhelm any character she is compared to in those first six episodes.
"Seems to me you could have spread some of the writing and screentime out and emphasized her a bit less and Mitchell a bit more, don't you think?"
Not for the story we wanted to tell. Its like those who say we could have introduced the Mitchell character as a Major. Sure. That would be different. Better? I don't think so.
"Mitchell is boring. You can explore him all you want..."
And before I forget, another reason some fans may not respond to Mitchell is because they're pre-disposed to not liking him.
9:44 PM
JMallozzi said...
"Doesn't it worry you that the show contradicts what you're telling us here about co-command and that most fans don't come online and thus won't know anything about a co-command and will only think that Mitchell is the leader?"
Nope because, at this point, it hasn't affected any of the stories. There's a possibility that will change in season 10.
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You gotta give Mallozzi some credit, he's being hit by fans with differing opinions [pro-Mitchell/anti-change, pro-Vala/anti-Vala...] and he still puts himself out there and tries to answer the questions. Sure, he gets himself in deeper sometimes, but he's trying, I think.
On another note: New Smilies!
Not that it particulary resembles him, but... Mitchell:
The "Band": 
Mitchell & Sam [my secret match-up. sssshhhh.]
For my fellow FarScape fans: Mitchell & Vala: 
The Buddies: Mitchell & Teal'c:
The Buddies, part deux: Mitchell & Daniel:
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fun with smilies: [originally in other post, but did you know there is a smilie limit?]
You can have any assignment you want...
:Why the sourpuss? 
Mitchell's harem? 
: Dude! 
: Race ya. I got a 302, whattaya got? 
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ACK! I should have clicked on the "more" button!
and because it cracked me up: the nox:
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The gang is all here to say...
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!Comment
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