Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

It cost me $ 1.17 with tax.

[SaraBahama]

I *really* need to get my rewatch on!! *sigh...life...grumbles...*

[selene0789]

I'm doing my rewatch by searching for clips for a vid. So one could say my rewatch is in a series of moments... so romantic. *sigh*

Still, it's a tad unsatisfying...

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I'm doing my rewatch by searching for clips for a vid. So one could say my rewatch is in a series of moments... so romantic. *sigh*

Still, it's a tad unsatisfying...

what song are you planning on using?

[selene0789]

what song are you planning on using?

It's a surprise! I don't ever reveal the song choice til I can post the vid itself. I usually just go with 'verse and theme. Last time it was a Sanctuary vid for Helen/John, and this time it's an SG-1 team vid. And actually it's now coming along quite nicely. The final 30 seconds were a doozy, because it has a very quick beat (and no other lyrics to pace the clips to), and then at the very end the beat drops out and the tempo slows to a stop.

Right now I'm just tweaking and fine tuning. All the clips are in place, thank goodness. I've spent a whole month on this thing. The Sanctuary vid was easier (and not least because it's easier to come through only 4 seasons of material for clips, compared to 10+ seasons!).

[iiradned]

It's a surprise! I don't ever reveal the song choice til I can post the vid itself. I usually just go with 'verse and theme. Last time it was a Sanctuary vid for Helen/John, and this time it's an SG-1 team vid. And actually it's now coming along quite nicely. The final 30 seconds were a doozy, because it has a very quick beat (and no other lyrics to pace the clips to), and then at the very end the beat drops out and the tempo slows to a stop.

Right now I'm just tweaking and fine tuning. All the clips are in place, thank goodness. I've spent a whole month on this thing. The Sanctuary vid was easier (and not least because it's easier to come through only 4 seasons of material for clips, compared to 10+ seasons!).

Hope you finish the vid soonish.

[selene0789]

Hope you finish the vid soonish.

It'll be up by the end of tonight. I had a finished product, watched it, and then decided it needed more work. Alas. But I think it is now near-perfect. Just a few more tweaks!

[selene0789]

All right folks, here it is! The mighty video!

Can't wait to see what you think!

[neverendingimagination]

That's amazing Selene, perfect song and fantastic choice of clips. Loved it.

[IamDKScully]

Absolutely awesome vid Selene! Beautiful!

[Lucycat]

Awesome vid, Selene! Congrats!

[selene0789]

That's amazing Selene, perfect song and fantastic choice of clips. Loved it.

Absolutely awesome vid Selene! Beautiful!

Awesome vid, Selene! Congrats!

Thanks guys! Glad you all liked it! I count it as a large part of my shipper rewatch.

Some things I've noticed in searching for clips:

-Jack and Daniel have some seriously intense eye contact.
-Sam is the most embracing of the team (she's the one doing the hugging).
-Teal'c has the strongest makeup skills.
-We don't get enough picture-perfect screentime with the four of them at once.

Nothing too surprising, but still. I had to be extra careful about which clips to use, because most of my go-to clips are Sam/Jack shippy. I was trying to avoid making this a straight up ship vid, and it was really really hard!

[neverendingimagination]

Shippers rewatch Season 4 – Episode 10 - Beneath the Surface

Part 1 of 3

Story

The episode begins with a view of what appears to be shared accommodations. Teal’c rises from a bunk and is revealed to be dressed in a orange pants with a bandage wrapped around his waist.

A woman, later revealed as Brenna, addresses the workers in the common area. Sam cheers, and Teal’c watches as Jack, Sam and Daniel join the chant ‘it is my honour to serve’.

Sam complains that she hasn’t got any bread, Jack supports her and ends up fighting with Daniel. Daniel calls him Jonah. Teal’c separates them and tells them they should not be fighting, they are friends and must remember who they really are.

Jack tells Brenna he doesn’t know Teal’c. Brenna says Teal’c has night-sickness, and orders the woman serving the food, to give Thera her bread.

The action cuts to the opening credits leaving the audience confused and intrigued.

Daniel spots Teal’c and asks where he has been for 5 days, Kegan tells him he was recovering from night-sickness. Kegan calls Daniel Carlin as she shows him how to do his job. She tells him about someone with night-sickness who tried to break through the sky light. She says if he had succeeded the place would have been filled with ice and snow – thus implying the outside world is glaciated.

Elsewhere a pipe bursts and Sam fixes it under the watchful eye of Jack. She proves her skills to Brenna and suggests some technological improvements. Sam heads off and Jack walks with her, they talk, he tells her to take a night off, she tells him he works as hard and he jokes that its stamina. She laughs openly and walks away beaming.

Kegan whines to Daniel about Jack and Sam’s egotistical behaviour –highlighting her resentment and jealousy, and therefore motives at breakfast.

Hammond video calls Administrator Calder, the administrator informs him that there is no sign of SG1. Hammond refuses to give up. Calder says that Sam was interested in exploring the glacier and Jack had no concerns about proceeding. After the video call he asks an assistant to bring Brenna to him, he wishes to know how the new workers are doing.

Daniel dreams about the ‘gate, and Jack tells him to go back. Kegan tells him not to listen, then he wakes up confused.

Hammond video calls Major Griff he tells him that there is no sign of SG1 on the glacier.

Daniel approaches Teal’c and asks him what he meant by their being friends and needing to escape. Teal’c insists he did no such thing. Daniel returns to Kegan and speaks about Teal’c, she reminds him his name is Tor and that he was night-sick.

Brenna reports to Calder and tells him that Teal’c brain chemistry somehow resists the memory stamp placed upon him. She informs him of Sam’s suggestions but Calder shoots her down. He says that one day Sam might increase productivity to the point they no longer need workers, Brenna asks if that is a bad thing. Calder says the workers wouldn’t fit it, they would know they had been lied to and would be shunned by the residents of the city.

Brenna tells Sam that consistent power is more important than efficiency. Sam argues until Brenna dismisses her.

Sam complains to Jack and he suggests she start with something small. She comments on his ability to stay calm and he jokes he thinks he worked with dangerous explosives in another life. Initially she smiles, but then, she asks what he means by it, he says its just an expression. The look on her face suggests she is thinking about it more deeply.

Major Griff returns from the planet and tells Hammond there is literally no sign of SG1, he tells him there is no way Jack would have authorized an exploration of the glacier. He suggests Calder is a damn liar.

Daniel talks to Kegan about Jack and Sam, he thinks that they could be his friends but he just doesn’t remember them. Kegan tries to put him off, telling him Sam and Jack are just trying to get preferential treatment.

Teal’c collapses whilst turning a pressure release valve, and the section threatens to explode. Sam organizes Jack and Daniel, sending them to open the primary release valve whilst she shuts off the boiler. They work quickly and as a team to prevent a catastrophic explosion.

Brenna tells Teal’c to stay in the medical level, she tells Sam, Jack and Daniel that they owe them a debt of gratitude. Their quick actions saved many lives. Sam tells Brenna there won’t be a next time if she would let her make her improvements. Brenna shoots her down again and Sam argues back. As Daniel and Sam chant ‘it is my honour to serve’ Jack seems to be questioning it.

Jack teases Sam about telling Brenna what she really thinks next time. Daniel tells them his concerns, he tells them about his dream and that he thinks something is wrong. Sam tells them she had the same time. Jack tells them to stop talking like that ‘for crying out loud’ the expression makes Sam start. They agree to meet after lights out. Jack watches them leave, a confused expression on his face.

They meet somewhere near the boilers and discuss the ‘shimmering circle of water’. Jack says he dreams of other things, his glance drifts to Sam, she seems oblivious. Daniel suggest their memories have been altered, Jack is skeptical until he has to recount his time in the mine. Jack says that is where he and Sam met, Sam is unsure. Daniel says the memories are a façade and they have to question everything. Jack suggest they are night sick, Sam replies ‘I don’t think so Sir.’ The other two start and stare at her.

Janet gives Hammond an update on SG3, Hammond tells her Major Griff is drawing up a search and rescue plan, Janet volunteers for the team.

Daniel had his dream again but everyone is there. Jack dreamed about mining naked – Sam looks at him bemused. Sam dreamed about numbers and letters, SG1, DHD, GDO and insists it means something. Jack spots a dome shaped plastic bowl and exchanges it for his food. He turns it over and sets it down telling the others it means something.

He has a flash of memory, of standing in Calder’s office looking out at a city, telling him it is impressive.

Kegan talks to Daniel, tells him she is their friend or hers. He says he should be with them.

Teal’c is becoming more and more ill. Brenna leaves him alone. He opens his eyes and unfastens his bandages.

Sam and Jack are sat alone in one of the tunnels. Jack describes Homer Simpson but Sam doesn’t remember him. She snuggles into him and tells him there are things she likes about the place and smiles at him. He tells her he remembered something else, feeling feelings. She asks if they are for her, he jokes that they are for Tor. He says he doesn’t remember much but he does remember that. She says she feels better. Both seem to zone out.

Brenna tells Calder that SG1 are beating the memory stamps. Calder tells her not to restamp them; he will send them outside the city instead. He is angry that they passed judgement on the system of workers.

Jack looks at the dome as he settles to sleep. He dreams of the dome city and his BDU’s. He remembers the rest of the conversation. Sam spotted ventilation shafts and they explored their origins. Jack tells him he won’t recommend trade with his world, he asks how they force the underground population to work. Calder tells him their methods are quite civilized and says he will show him.

Jack wakes Sam telling her he thinks he knows what’s going on. An unnamed worker tells them to report to Brenna’s quarters.

Teal’c is brought into the room, Jack, Sam and Daniel are already waiting before Brenna. Brenna tells them Teal’c is dying, Daniel remembers kel’no’reem, and Jack remembers that it is a form of meditation he needs to complete every day. He surmises that Teal’c doesn’t remember to do it.

Brenna tells them they need to return home, she presses a button, opening a secret door. Calder appears holding a gun and shoots Brenna in the arm. Teal’c, Jack and Daniel overpower Calder and his two aides. Teal’c informs them he remembered everything once he removed his bandages.

Daniel tells them they cannot go home yet, they have to tell the people what is happening. Jack agrees. He drags Calder out onto the balcony, he explains what has been going on. The workers won’t believe him when he talks of a city on the surface. He shoots a skylight an sunlight pours into the room. Jack tells Calder he will take the workers back with him and take them to a tropical planet where the beaches go on for miles.

As they prepare to leave Jack and Sam are left alone in Brenna’s quarters. Sam calls Jack ‘Colonel’ he calls her ‘Major. She tells him the bald man was Hammond, he knows. She calls him Sir, he repeats the word and stares at her, a pained expression on his face. Sam says they should go home.

The end credits roll.

[neverendingimagination]

Part 2 of 3

Discussion

General

I think, up until the series finale, that this episode has the longest time frame from beginning to end. It can be assumed that SG1 have been on the planet for at least 24 hours before the opening scenes, 5 days pass, and two nights before they figure out what is going on. This totals at least 7 days.

Telling a story over a long period of time in just 43 minutes presents challenges of its own, particularly in choosing the starting point. Starting halfway through the story and holding back information key to understanding the situation was a clever decision. It created mystery and intrigue and drew the audience in, it asks questions that need answers.


Beneath the surface is a complex and multi-layered episode. The title has many connotations and can be perceived from many angles:
• Literally, beneath the surface – working under ice
• Beneath the surface of their implanted memories lie the true memories
• Revealing what is beneath the surface with Sam and Jack
• Metaphorical commentary on the difference between outward appearances and the truth inside.

It is a very interesting concept, the weaving of many layers and flitting between different depths of thought provide an intricate web of questions and ideas. The message the writer is giving is on a basic level, to not judge a book by its cover, but if you look deeper, it also questions the morality and emotional impact of sacrifice – a topic explored throughout the first half of this season in The Other Side, Scorched Earth, Window of Opportunity, Crossroads, and Divide and Conquer. It also continues the exploration of how we judge other’s morality.

In each episode something or someone is sacrificed, or in danger of being sacrificed for the good of something or someone else. In The Other Side, the ‘breeders’ are being sacrificed for the good of the puritans, and in Scorched Earth, Lotan was willing to sacrifice the Inkarans until Daniel showed him the bigger picture. In Window of Opportunity, 13 planets were being sacrificed for the chance for a man to see his wife once more, Crossroads, Shau’nac was willing to sacrifice her life, and in Divide and Conquer, both Jack was willing to sacrifice his life for Sam’s and, they both sacrificed their love for each other for the good of the planet.

In Beneath the Surface, Calder and his people were willing to sacrifice the workers human rights to keep the city powered, in the same vein the workers were happy to make the sacrifice of family, comfort and personal space in order to keep their people alive. They didn’t complain, in fact, it was their honour to serve – how much of that was integrated with the mind-stamp is anyone’s guess – and they were genuine and devoted to that cause.

Calder was also happy to sacrifice SG1 to keep knowledge of the workers quiet – suggesting he, in fact, questioned his own morality and saw the wrongs in what they were doing. This is a complete contrast to the way he defends his position to Brenna – is he trying to convince himself just as much her?

The opening sequence was clever and concise, it gave the audience the relevant information without being heavily expositional. The action alone told the story and kept the audience hanging through the opening credits. Daniel’s first line after the credits immediately sets the time frame and thus gives urgency to Hammond’s search.

The first scene with Daniel and Kegan, discussing a previous sufferer of night-sickness and the skylight seems a little clumsy in comparison to the other ways the writer uses exposition and shares information. I almost have to wonder if it came from a network note because it doesn’t seem to fit creatively.

It would be very difficult to pass on the amount of information required to make the story make sense without some exposition. The Brenna/Calder scene discussing the workers and the city is purely for that purpose. The audience only then sees what SG1 is really up against, not only the confines of the workers, but also the political circumstances surrounding their incarceration.

Night- sickness and the minutiae of mind-stamps

I believe Daniel, Jack and Sam are ‘night-sick’, I believe the term was fashioned by Calder or his predecessors to describe those who are starting to remember their lives before they became workers. It is never specified who the workers are but from Calder’s line ‘our city has no crime’ it would make sense that becoming a worker is their version of capital punishment or a prison sentence.

I’ve seen a fair few fics that suggest a pregnancy would be frowned upon and terminated. I would think this would create more suspicion, if the workers were not allowed to reproduce then there would be no way to continue their line – or appear to continue their line. It would bring up the question of where the workers come from. I would think a number of them would be allowed to bear their children, either to keep up the pretense or to increase the number of workers. Jack’s statement that the workers had been lied to ‘all their lives’ also suggests that at least some of them were born in the workers underground networks.

Also the notion of being ‘transferred from the mine’ seems to be both a cover and a truth. There must actually be a mine because workers shovel the ore into the furnaces, and obviously, it must come from somewhere. It’s possible that the idea of the mine is an integral part of the mind-stamp, and that other ‘areas’ exist, a place for the children until they come of age perhaps, either as part of the memory stamp or in reality.

Characters

We see more of Janet’s fondness for SG1 in this episode, her volunteering to go as part of the search and rescue team says so much more than any worrying or emotional outburst.

In this episode Daniel makes another female friend, Kegan. Right from the start she has a problem with Sam, its not clear exactly what the issue is. The way she tries to stop Daniel talking to her and her almost religious belief in the system could give the impression she is somehow in on it. In fact, her actions were all out of jealousy over Sam.

We get to see different sides to the team in this episode. The traits we all knew they had, that are usually pinned down and hidden, are completely at the surface. It also highlights the parts of their personalities that are not affected by their circumstances, the things that make them who they are.

Daniel is just as inquisitive, his thirst for knowledge and quest for answers are as fulfilling for him as any archaeological dig.

Sam is confident, outgoing and commanding, she is not afraid to stand her ground or push her point. This is a side to Sam we rarely see due to her subordination. Thera talks back to her superior and gets aggressive.

Jack is skeptical, witty, and protective, he is also much more expressive about his feelings and much more open. Jonah tells Thera he has feelings for her without being asked, coerced or forced with alien technology – something Jack would never do.

The mind-stamp also highlights their passions and desires, Daniel, discovery and investigation, Jack, Sam and the Simpsons, Sam, Jack and her engineering, and Teal’c, freedom.

Something I did notice, Sam is the only female (excluding Janet) to be in full and obvious make-up. I’d like to think it was a conscious decision on the part of the director to make her stand out, she is also the only blonde, as far as I could see. Kegan doesn’t like her because she’s different, her physical appearance enhances the visual divide between them.

Also, when Calder enters Brenna’s quarters Sam is the only one not to fight. I find it odd that her response is to hang back and then attend to Brenna, when her military training should make her more likely to fight than Daniel. It could be her field medical training showing through, a logical decision to let the others fight and protect the wounded.

Dream sequences

I thought the dream sequences were especially clever. The use of the workers costumes and the BDU’s at different times was poignant. Daniel, as the first dreamer, finds himself, as a worker, torn between Keegan and Jack, a personification of his life as Carlin trying to pull him back and keep him in his illusory world.

Jack finds himself in the tower room, first in his workers uniform and then in his BDU’s. The clothing, clarity of the location and the comprehension of the dream improve as SG1 glean more information about their circumstances. Those details enhanced the viewing experience and enriched the texture of the story.

[neverendingimagination]

Part 3 of 3

Favourite Lines/Scenes

Daniel – It’s a façade, it only works if we don’t look to deep.

The writer is metaphorically talking about Jack and Sam.

Jack – I dream about other things, like mining, naked.

Jack – I remember feeling, feelings … I don’t remember much else but I do remember that.

Janet – Well sir, if you’re looking for volunteers

Sam, Jack and Daniel working together to save the section of boilers.

Sam arguing with Brenna – both times – about her improvements. It shows the fierce, self-confident, defiant scientist she keeps hidden inside, just bubbling at the surface.



Jack and Sam


Shippy Moments

Feeling feelings

It’s stamina

I dream about, other things.

I dreamt about mining, naked.

End scene ‘Sir’ ‘Major’

[b]Sam Jack Story Arc[b]

The original script for this episode included moments suggesting a full physical relationship between Thera and Jonah but Amanda Tapping, amongst others, protested that it was unnecessary. The story arc had been completed and the reintroduction of sexual feelings would have undone previous episodes and put the characters back at square one.

In a character arc, the character changes for better, or worse, as a response to experiences and events. The character is required to dig deep inside themselves and use up their reserves to overcome the obstacles before them. A big part of a character arc is the internal conflict they face in the run up to making decisions. A character arc can be split into three acts, the first sets up a conflict, the second comprises the events and experiences which force a change in the character and act three is a test of that change.

This character arc focuses on Sam and Jack’s feelings for one another, the realization those feelings are shared and the repercussions of those feelings.

Act 1 = longing and desire

Instigation of conflict = The force shield

Act 2 = Zat’arc test – admittance and fear = events and experiences forcing a change

Turning point = Sam’s decision to leave it in the room

Act 3 = Coming to terms with the decision and starting to move on = testing the change

Act 3 is the longest of the acts because it can be seen to continue throughout the series. Window of Opportunity tests Jack’s resolve to leave it in the room, he takes the chance because things will go back to how they were, he doesn’t have the risk or internal conflict over showing her how he feels. He fails in his first test. He goes completely against their decisions, but, he doesn’t risk anything. The time loop takes away his problems and allows him to experience what could have been, however briefly.

Beneath the Surface is another test. The final scene, “Major” “Sir” is their way of putting it back in the room, boxing up those feelings and leaving them at the door with Thera and Jonah. They made the decision to put their feelings aside and continue their working relationship. That sacrifice was for the good of the planet and other humans in the galaxy. They willingly made that sacrifice and would not go back on it.

Had Sam and Jack developed their relationship to an emotional and physical one, upon learning their true identities, they would be faced with the longing and desire once more. Yet again they would have to explore those emotions and come to a decision – they would be back to square one.

I feel that having Jonah and Thera getting no further in their relationship than Sam and Jack was the best choice. It shows that those feelings haven’t gone away and that they are still making that sacrifice for the good of others. The quick reversion to Major and Colonel at the end reflects their decision and their ability to stick by it. It would also be much much harder to return to a professional, working relationship after such an intimate physical one.

Conclusion

I think this is episode is by far one of the best of the season, the concept, the depths, the shippiness, and the angst all blend together to make it a visual delight. I am going to give it a 9/10.

For shippiness I’m going to give it an 8/10 for the combination of angst and shimmering dust of fluff.