Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[picardythirds]

Great review!


It's like she's saying, "You promised to be home in time for dinner. This casserole won't keep while were waiting around for you to destroy the enemy." And he replies, "Don't worry, Dear. I'm not going to miss dinner by getting stuck on a planet that's about to be incinerated."

Ah, family time at the O'Neill household.

This made me laugh. Someone should write a future fic that has elements of this in it



I love this episode and I'd forgotten that Daniel is the one keeping everything centered. And that scene before she blows up the sun? priceless. It's one of my favorites, and they don't even say/do much!

[SaraBahama]

Entity

<snippy>

Shippy-ness:

There's an awful lot in this episode, but the thing that really jumped out at me was the discussion between Janet and Jack about Sam's will. Now, before you say that, as her CO, he would need to know certain medical information of those under is command, think about it. Yes, he would need to know some medical information, but only the kind that would be useful to him out in the field. If someone is seriously injured out in the field, there is only a limited amount of care that can be provided. You certainly would not be able to diagnose and treat someone who had been so badly injured that they were braindead. If someone is braindead, you have only minutes to get them on life support before their cells get completely starved of oxygen and start to die. You would not be able to put someone on life support out in the field, so no need to know about whether or not they had stipulated no extraordinary means in their will. Even if someone with the necessary equipment was able to help them in that situation and they were able to stabilise the person long enough, they would most likely bring the person back to their own doctor, or at least be in a situation to communicate with that person's doctor. The person's doctor would know about the no extraordinary means request and would either carry it out themselves or instruct the attending doctor to do so.

Either way, there was absolutely no real reason for Jack to know this about Sam. Even Janet wasn't sure if Jack knew, which indicates that it's not something that COs are generally privy to. At the most, it's possible that they are more involved than they are letting on and are essentially treating each other as next-of-kin, or at the least, at some stage they have had a very deeply personal and intimate discussion about their preferences for this type of thing. That's very, very, shippy indeed.

One of the other moments that stood out for me was when the entity first started speaking to Jack. Firstly, it seems rather fixated on Jack and states that Sam has memories of him. It doesn't say this to anyone else in the room, including Janet who is standing right there. Then, it starts talking about how Sam is special and says 'You will not terminate', then turns to the rest of the team and General Hammond and says 'None of you will'. So the entire first part of the conversation is directed entirely and exclusively at Jack. The entity has read Jack's file and knows what he's capable of, but has also been watching, and now has also seen Sam's memories, and knows that Jack will not harm Sam. It knows she is special to him specifically. Also, when Sam wakes up, she seems to be addressing everyone when she says she was shouting, but she's looking at Jack. It's quite ambiguous about whether or not she was calling for Jack to hear. Then there's the lovely and sad bit at the end when you can see how desperate he is to take her hand and has to fidget to keep himself from doing it.

Also, there are an awful lot of meaningful looks thrown Jack's way, by Hammond, Janet, and Daniel. Most especially when Daniel and Teal'c walk in when Jack and Janet are discussing Sam's will. Jack doesn't even look at them, but Daniel studies Jack very carefully for a long moment before he says anything. I think he's really noticing that Jack's behaviour isn't that of any ordinary CO.

Definitely a 10/10 for me on shippy-ness.

One of my all-time favorite eps!

Here are some more of my favorite scenes:

HAMMOND: Very well, Dr. Jackson. Dismissed. Jack?
[Daniel, Fraiser, and Teal'c leave.]
O'NEILL: Sir?
HAMMOND: We may have to make some difficult choices. I know that Major Carter means a great deal to you.
O'NEILL: She's a very valuable member of my team, Sir.
HAMMOND: Yes she is.

This is such a non-conversation between Hammond and Jack. Neither can exactly acknowledge the enormous albino elephant in the room, but Hammond is reaching a little here to let Jack know that he is sympathetic to the difficulty of the choice. I love it...I'm sadistic.

*************************************************

ENTITY: This one is important.
O'NEILL: She is.

Really? What can I say?

**************************

DANIEL: Well in a way, you succeeded. We won't go back there. You can repair the damage we did, and we won't send any more probes through.
O'NEILL: Yes, we will.
DANIEL: Jack?
O'NEILL: We'll send dozens of them, one after another. I don't care what it does.
ENTITY: No.
O'NEILL: Leave her…now.
ENTITY: You won't.
O'NEILL: You've read my file, think again.
ENTITY: I must preserve.
O'NEILL: Fine, stick to your guns then.
DANIEL: Jack?
O'NEILL: Daniel, we're going to do this my way.
ENTITY: You can't.
O'NEILL: General?
HAMMOND: You're damned right we can.
ENTITY: No, please.
O'NEILL: Leave her.
ENTITY: I must preserve.
O'NEILL: If you wanna preserve your world, leave Major Carter right now.

Jack can be scary when he puts on that hard, menacing, I-have-nothing-to-lose attitude. I winced. I squirmed. He's threatening to annihilate an entire civilization...to commit a form of genocide...because SHE MATTERS. He may be unable to express the depth, the extent of his loyalty (and what I love about them is the loyalty is multi-layered...friendship, camaraderie, affection...), but it is there, and it come roaring out of him.

*********************************************************

I should also say that the actors do an excellent job in this ep!!

[picardythirds]

One of my all-time favorite eps!

Here are some more of my favorite scenes:

HAMMOND: Very well, Dr. Jackson. Dismissed. Jack?
[Daniel, Fraiser, and Teal'c leave.]
O'NEILL: Sir?
HAMMOND: We may have to make some difficult choices. I know that Major Carter means a great deal to you.
O'NEILL: She's a very valuable member of my team, Sir.
HAMMOND: Yes she is.

This is such a non-conversation between Hammond and Jack. Neither can exactly acknowledge the enormous albino elephant in the room, but Hammond is reaching a little here to let Jack know that he is sympathetic to the difficulty of the choice. I love it...I'm sadistic.

I'd forgotten about this non-conversation. I remember watching for the first time and being completely shocked that Hammond would even acknowledge it in this way, even a tiny little bit. I think this might be the first tangible proof that Hammond knows? I'm not sure, but I love that Hammond cares enough to have this conversation.

ENTITY: This one is important.
O'NEILL: She is.

Really? What can I say?

I know! I know! you could say.... "ya think?" (read with the O'Neill inflection..)

DANIEL: Well in a way, you succeeded. We won't go back there. You can repair the damage we did, and we won't send any more probes through.
O'NEILL: Yes, we will.
DANIEL: Jack?
O'NEILL: We'll send dozens of them, one after another. I don't care what it does.
ENTITY: No.
O'NEILL: Leave her…now.
ENTITY: You won't.
O'NEILL: You've read my file, think again.
ENTITY: I must preserve.
O'NEILL: Fine, stick to your guns then.
DANIEL: Jack?
O'NEILL: Daniel, we're going to do this my way.
ENTITY: You can't.
O'NEILL: General?
HAMMOND: You're damned right we can.
ENTITY: No, please.
O'NEILL: Leave her.
ENTITY: I must preserve.
O'NEILL: If you wanna preserve your world, leave Major Carter right now.

Jack can be scary when he puts on that hard, menacing, I-have-nothing-to-lose attitude. I winced. I squirmed. He's threatening to annihilate an entire civilization...to commit a form of genocide...because SHE MATTERS. He may be unable to express the depth, the extent of his loyalty (and what I love about them is the loyalty is multi-layered...friendship, camaraderie, affection...), but it is there, and it come roaring out of him.

*********************************************************

I should also say that the actors do an excellent job in this ep!!

It reminds me a bit of Jack's "NO!" in D&C, that intenseness and anger. I'd certainly be shaking in my boots if Jack directed that at me!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Jack's "No!" always gets to me because just of his facial expressions. you can tell that for the first time in his life, he's truly scared.

[Sparky She-Demon]

It reminds me a bit of Jack's "NO!" in D&C, that intenseness and anger. I'd certainly be shaking in my boots if Jack directed that at me!

Technically that was in "Upgrades". Or at least the events from "Upgrades".

[AmberLM]

Yup, RDA is the master of that sucker punch to the gut-style raw emotion. The "NO!" In Upgrades/D&C, the anger at the Entity, his oh-so-cutting "Now I'm acting like myself" to Sam in Shades of Grey, his "I lost my son!!" Speech from WoO, his panic for Sam's condition when Niirti is killed in Metamorphosis and, of course, his "I'd rather die than lose Carter" conversation... He might be a man of few words but he sure as heck makes the ones he does speak count!

Sam, on the other hand, is Queen of the monosyllable and the glances. She has a 1001 ways she says "Sir" and they all convey different meanings.

I'm such a sucker for angst lol. I wish we had seen them get together though, 8 years of holding back must have ended with a hell of a firework display lol (Moebius just doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid, it's not our couple)

[Sparky She-Demon]

Those two have a language all their own and they don't have to say a single word!

[picardythirds]

Yup, RDA is the master of that sucker punch to the gut-style raw emotion. The "NO!" In Upgrades/D&C, the anger at the Entity, his oh-so-cutting "Now I'm acting like myself" to Sam in Shades of Grey, his "I lost my son!!" Speech from WoO, his panic for Sam's condition when Niirti is killed in Metamorphosis and, of course, his "I'd rather die than lose Carter" conversation... He might be a man of few words but he sure as heck makes the ones he does speak count!

Sam, on the other hand, is Queen of the monosyllable and the glances. She has a 1001 ways she says "Sir" and they all convey different meanings.

I'm such a sucker for angst lol. I wish we had seen them get together though, 8 years of holding back must have ended with a hell of a firework display lol (Moebius just doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid, it's not our couple)

ooooooo...how could I forget that WoO "I lost my son!" line?! So much raw emotion from a man who usually keeps those cards close to himself. But then, after so many loops, he's definitely at a breaking point.



Question: Do you think that the scene in Entity when Hammond talks to O'Neill about tough choices...is the first time onscreen we've seen that Hammond acknowledges "the thing" they have between them? I simply don't remember.

[AmberLM]

ooooooo...how could I forget that WoO "I lost my son!" line?! So much raw emotion from a man who usually keeps those cards close to himself. But then, after so many loops, he's definitely at a breaking point.



Question: Do you think that the scene in Entity when Hammond talks to O'Neill about tough choices...is the first time onscreen we've seen that Hammond acknowledges "the thing" they have between them? I simply don't remember.

Urm, does he say something in "In the Line of Duty" too? I can't remember. I just remember Jack going off on one about getting "that damned thing out of her!". I'm sure Hammond gives him a look. I think maybe it's the first and possibly *only* time Hammond has come within a hair's breadth of actually saying "I know you love her, Jack". I also love Hammond even more for the fact that he knows and doesn't bring them up on charges! Tho, to be fair, they even have President Hayes on their team so go the good ship S/J! Lol

[hlndncr]

Yeah, I'm positive Hammond knows. He's very perceptive and smart. He wouldn't be where he is if he weren't. He also was sure to have gotten some kind of report from the za'tarc incident. But I don't think other than this one scene in Entity he ever confronts either of them about it (that we see).

It does, however, bring to mind something of a mirror situation in Frozen where Sam insists to Hammond that Jack being consulted about taking a symbiote. Hammond seems to defer to Sam's wishes and he has Sam do the talking when they wake Jack. To me that is another subtle acknowledgement that Hammond knows and accepts the bond between them.

[hedwig]

Yeah, I'm positive Hammond knows. He's very perceptive and smart. He wouldn't be where he is if he weren't. He also was sure to have gotten some kind of report from the za'tarc incident. But I don't think other than this one scene in Entity he ever confronts either of them about it (that we see).

It does, however, bring to mind something of a mirror situation in Frozen where Sam insists to Hammond that Jack being consulted about taking a symbiote. Hammond seems to defer to Sam's wishes and he has Sam do the talking when they wake Jack. To me that is another subtle acknowledgement that Hammond knows and accepts the bond between them.

Maybe that's how he justifies it in his mind. Since thinking about it any other way would mean he'd have to separate them.

[XFchemist]

About Hammond, it does come to my mind the scene in The fifth man when Sam initially refuses to give her P90 to the airman in the embarkation room and pretends to go back to Jack immediately.

[Sparky She-Demon]

A blind man would've been able to see what was going on between S/J!

[AmberLM]

A blind man would've been able to see what was going on between S/J!

Heck, even the President knew (and didn't care! *does happy dance*)

[Sparky She-Demon]

Heck, even the President knew (and didn't care! *does happy dance*)

That's true. Have you had a chance to take a look at "Half Life" yet Amber?