Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[fems]

And the comment Tobias made that Sam beat her out for a position at the SGC made me curious. There are lots of scientists at the SGC and if Tobias is anywhere close to Carter's skill level you'd think the Air Force would want her there, too. I mean look at Felger! Tobias is a lot smarter than that clown! So she probably also had some other black mark on her record.

Are they military misfits, otherwise blacklisted from active duty unless they got their action through the NID? For example, why is Tobias a Lieutenant? She looked like she should've been a Major, age-wise, Captain at the least. But she was a Lieutenant. Did she get in trouble at her previous command? Refusal to follow orders? Or was she wrongfully victimized, unable to rise in the ranks due to her gender, and this was the only way she felt she could make a real difference?

I've always wondered about the military members working for the NID, too. From what we've seen of Reynolds* and Maybourne they certainly seem to be on active duty, yet they work for a civilian organization like the NID? And like Tobias, they don't seem to be climbing the ranks, but appear to be capable so did they do something to get too many black marks on their records and thus turned to/were recruited by the NID?

I also have to say that I thought it was a shame they used Makepeace as the mole here. He and SG-1 seemed to get along just fine in the season two premiere and it was too bad he turned out to be NID.


* Although I'm not sure if Reynolds was working at Area 51 (for the USAF) and was simply under Maybourne's command or if he was truly NID and later on transferred to the SGC.

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

I also have to say that I thought it was a shame they used Makepeace as the mole here. He and SG-1 seemed to get along just fine in the season two premiere and it was too bad he turned out to be NID.

I was very disappointed by that, too. It just felt wrong.

[selene0789]

I think the difference is you like living in AU land. Watching the unfolding of the undercover operation, Jack living off-base and a reconstituted SG1 sounds too much like an AU fanfic to me.

It's also all background/build up stuff. The real meat of the story is what they showed. You can do more background stuff if you're looking at a serialized show (you got to fill in the hours and keep those story arcs alive), which is one of the reasons why I hate such shows.

My penchant for AU notwithstanding, what I proposed is distinctly in-'verse. Nothing would be changed, only elaborated on what was presented in course of the episode.

Having background/build up stuff every now and then doesn't alter the nature of the show as a whole. For certain plots (I'm thinking Lost City, Heroes) that build of dramatic suspense is what really sets an episode apart from the rest, and make it truly epic.

Lost City and Heroes are beautiful, intricately crafted stories. In this episode, by comparison, a heavy concept of Jack infiltrating a rogue branch of the NID is delivered in a blunt, matter-of-fact manner that (for me) doesn't do the idea justice. There's nothing AU about wanting to see the topic fully fleshed out.

[hlndncr]

I think it's a mark of how good this episode is that we all look at it differently and get something different out of it.

[ErikaMariia]

I agree with selene, I loved the briefing room scene at the beginning! And the earlier scene, on Tollana... Jack is so hot in his dress blues... whew!

Indeed. That's one reason why Fair Game is one of my favourites

[ErikaMariia]

I'm sorry if this has been already talked to boredom.

I just found MGM:s official Stargate site. I'm thinking very shippy here, but I find it interesting that one episode they've chosen one of the key episodes for Sam is Solitudes. does it mean that then was the time Sam found some feelings for her commander?
And for Jack one was Divide and Conquer in which we all know what happened.

[selene0789]

I'm sorry if this has been already talked to boredom.

I just found MGM:s official Stargate site. I'm thinking very shippy here, but I find it interesting that one episode they've chosen one of the key episodes for Sam is Solitudes. does it mean that then was the time Sam found some feelings for her commander?
And for Jack one was Divide and Conquer in which we all know what happened.

I think for Sam it was an important episode of development because it was the first time it really fell to her to get the Stargate working again. Jack was injured, largely out of commission, and so she was essentially on her own, responsible (as she felt) for getting herself and her commander home.

And the real kicker comes when she can't get it working again. She has the expertise, she *knows* it should be working, but she just can't work it out. So she also has to come to terms with her own shortcomings, which in this case will kill both her and O'Neill.

For my own head canon, this episode really sets Sam on the path to becoming the character we really sink our teeth into. Early in Season 1 she's the brash, cocky young pilot assigned to a project she helped get off the ground. She's on top of the world and it shows, until this brush with mortality and her own inexperience kind of knocks her down a peg-- a peg where she really finds her niche. And I think this episode also marks the start of Sam fully appreciating O'Neill as a commander. He shares with her some of his black ops injuries, and she sees how strong he is, what kind of experiences he's had. She recognizes the strength and courage he has when he orders her to leave him in the cave (to die alone) and try to find help on the surface. He put her, his remaining team member, ahead of himself even as he lay dying. That counts for alot with Sam, and I think it's where she really starts to respect him.

On a side note, I love Solitudes because it was my first SG-1 episode. I caught it on re-run by random one day (after having seen only Atlantis), and I planned to only stay on the channel for a couple minutes. But then I watched a little more. And then to the following commercial break. And then the next thing I knew it had ended. And I was hooked. [And yes, I see lots of shippy goodness in this episode. I just don't think either of them realized what it was at that point. And I don't think the ship is what makes this a defining episode for Sam.]

[ErikaMariia]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'll take off my shippy glasses. Just for a while though

BTW, is there a thread somewhere about those official (?) choises? I'd love to see what other people think.

[hedwig]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'll take off my shippy glasses. Just for a while though

BTW, is there a thread somewhere about those official (?) choises? I'd love to see what other people think.

What "official choices"?

[Kali]

Regarding the NID: did they have the right motives? perhaps. I suppose that if one focused only on ethics, their approach would be wrong. However, if the ends justify the means, they are correct. 'Get alien technology at all costs to defend the earth against the Goa'uld.' I would do the same to defend my planet. But then again, the allies of earth could be just as useful to our development assuming the planet wasn't destroyed, and we could afford to focus long term.

[hlndncr]

Regarding the NID: did they have the right motives? perhaps. I suppose that if one focused only on ethics, their approach would be wrong. However, if the ends justify the means, they are correct. 'Get alien technology at all costs to defend the earth against the Goa'uld.' I would do the same to defend my planet. But then again, the allies of earth could be just as useful to our development assuming the planet wasn't destroyed, and we could afford to focus long term.

If one focused on authority their approach is wrong too. They are an oversight agency and this rogue splinter is acting entirely on it's own initiative outside of it's official authority and with no answerable chain of command.

Absolutely no agency of the government or military can act "at all cost" they are all subject to rules and limits. It's a very dangerous thing to believe that giving any government organization total carte blanche is a good idea - that's called tyranny.

[hlndncr]

Don't forget to send me your preferences for Season 4 reviews! I need them by the end of this week.

I'm thinking I may link the most popular episodes with the least popular. So for example, if you want Divide and Conquer you have to take First Ones. If you want WoO you also have to do Serpent's Venom. To get Entity you have to take Crossroads. You know, a little sacrifice for the privilege.

[neverendingimagination]

That's a good idea hlndncr.

[Kali]

If one focused on authority their approach is wrong too. They are an oversight agency and this rogue splinter is acting entirely on it's own initiative outside of it's official authority and with no answerable chain of command.

Absolutely no agency of the government or military can act "at all cost" they are all subject to rules and limits. It's a very dangerous thing to believe that giving any government organization total carte blanche is a good idea - that's called tyranny.

I doubt the organization had "carte blanche." Although, their chain of command was not fully explored on SG1, they were getting funding from somewhere. Besides, the specific point I was making was that the survival of the planet overrules any ethical dilemmas. Ok, so it's wrong to break the rules, it's wrong to steal, it's wrong to murder people--granted. But what if those ethically and morally wrong actions saved our world? Would it be wrong then?

Next question: Can one put a price on being moral and ethically upstanding? Interesting question if one admits that morals and ethics are ultimately subjective.

[Sparky She-Demon]

That's a good idea hlndncr.

A very good idea.