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    Broca Divide

    Fave Quote:Jack: "Lucy, I'm home!" and of course the sweet little tank top number comment
    Fave Scene: Sam jumping Jack in the locker room.

    The pre mission briefing: Did they always wear Dress Blues (or greens for the Marines) for the pre mission briefings?

    Sending a team through without knowing what's on the other side. Seems a little reckless. Wouldn't they normally have checked to make sure they didn't arrive in cave? Guessing that the 'lights' are broken seems strange, why not send another MALP to be sure?

    Jack has a very valid point about Skaara and Sha're and the Marines shooting first, but with that thought, if another SG team did find them and shoot first, questions later, wouldn't they be in the same boat?

    Jack making 'swirly' patterns in the event horizon. Isn't this one of the things that drove the special effects guys nuts?

    Darkness, all the time? How is there abundant plant life? Plants need sunlight for photosynthesis, to grow, live, survive. Always bugged me. If it's as dark as General Hammond suggests in the briefing where the MALP can not see anything without light, and assuming that we can 'see' the people and surroundings is because otherwise it would be a very boring episode to watch a black screen, it would be pitch black most of the time.

    My thoughts on a 'dark side':
    Spoiler:
    The times they show the light and dark sides, it's a definative light/dark line. With rotation of a planet or with no rotation this doesn't happen. While it looks like there's a line on the moon between light and dark, there really isn't one. It just gets darker and darker before it's pure darkness. There's no magical line that if you jump from one side to the next it's lightside/darkside. The only time we see a difinitive dark line on Earth is during an eclipse, where the moon passes in front of the sun and blocks light. You can see a dark patch rushing towards you at incredible speeds until you're surrounded by dark. The only thing I can think of, if it's a true dark side of the planet that never sees light, is there is a moon that rotates with the planet around the star that always stays in the exact same spot, creating a permanent eclipse.



    Ahhhhh, the locker room scene... Jack without a shirt. Ok, I promise not to drool anymore....

    Sam jumps Jack. Jack has no idea why, but has a hard time fighting her off (given she got several hard kisses in, managed to pin him down....). Either he's completely fine, very suprised and part of him is enjoying it and doesn't want to stop it, or the illness is starting to get to him and his primitave instincts are screaming at him to procreate but not very strongly.

    Yay for Janet!!!! I liked Janet Frasier right from the get go.

    When Jack is telling Daniel about what happened with him and Sam he seems very uncomfortable. I think he's not quite gone 'primative' yet and he's horribly embarrased for her sake and his. Did anyone see? They know it's an illness but not what it is, or what it's doing to them. Jack has no idea why Sam jumped him. He's probalby running a million scenarios in his mind as to why, what caused it, how does the illness pass from person to person etc. He's probably also concerned about his and Sam's career. I bet at this point, he doesn't see Sam as someone he'd like to date. She's just a co-worker, a team member, and I still don't think the team is terribly close with each other. If he didn't know Sam and ran into her, got talking, he'd probably ask her out... maybe... He can't miss the fact she's gorgeous (AT is!!!!)

    It's the moment Daniel mentions that he should go visit that Jack goes crazy, ending up beating Daniel pretty good. He just goes all Alpha Male, and freaks out when someone shows concern for his woman. Janet did mention to him that Sam probably 'attacked' him because she saw him as the strongest candidate to father strong offspring. Basic survival of the fittest. Sam sees Jack as a leader, a tough man, a strong man. Her basic instincts are telling her this is a man who could produce offspring able to survive. She isn't considering a potential father figure for a child, only procreation, I'm assuming like animal instincts. She doesn't go after the leader of the base, Hammond, and subconsciously she considers Jack a tougher man than Hammond.

    Janet says to Jack that he can't have more sedative because he's above the maximum and he was more violent than anyone else. Why was that? Did the illness get him worse than anyone else? No tolerance for it? Or because he has a foul temper, dark places in his mind? I'm not saying that Jack is the kind of guy who flys off the handle and would kill someone in cold blood for a small matter, but we know (or come to know) that he has a temper, but keeps it pretty tightly checked.

    for Daniel's unibrow!!!! And Sams!!!!!!!!!

    At the end where Sam says they know how to lift the curse, Jack shoots her a look. Almost as if they are starting to talk without words. She says that, he glances at her as if to say, 'Sam? You sure you wanna say that?" Sam responds with another look that sorta says, "You got any better ideas?"

    I like the conversation at the end. Sam seems pretty thrilled when Jack says he was concerned. Or suprised, I'm not sure which. When he comments on the 'sweet little tank top number' she looks horrified, then grins. I think she's horrified at what he's saying, reminding her of what she's just apologized for, jumping her CO. But then she grins when she realises he's having a go at her, joking around with her.

    Sam and Jack implications: Well, Sam sees Jack as an 'Alpha Male' which obviously makes Jack feel good about himself. What man could resist being told one way or another that he's an alpha male, leader of the pack and all that jazz. It's a pretty awkward situation all around. Sam jumped her CO, tried to make out with him, then Jack beat up Daniel for nothing more than showing concern about his woman. I bet there were more embarrassing situations on the base, but having to deal with them afterwords would be tough. Does Sam remember all that happened? The first time she sees Jack what is she thinking? I'd be freaking out, wondeirng what he thought. Would he despise me? Would he think I was crazy for picking him? Would he want to get as far away as possible from me after I went crazy all over him? When she appologizes to Jack she's probably got a million butterflies riding rollercoasters in her stomach, and he reminds her he was infected too, putting her at ease. Then he takes it a step further to joke about it which she doesn't seem to know how to take at first. She sees the joke, and that Jack is moving on and doesn't think more of it. It's showing that they've definatly become more comfortable around each other. It could be around 8 weeks since COTG happened, and now the group is becomming more gelled with each other. One awkward situation down and in the past, many many more to come....
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      Originally posted by VSS View Post

      Anyway, The Broca Divide is not a one-off ep about a virus that randomly caused them to want to jump each other. Janet was very clear that the virus shuts down the higher brain functions and lets pre-existing primitive behaviors manifest themselves. That’s the whole point of the soldier giving Teal’c the evil eye in the pre-mission briefing, and then attacking him after being infected. The virus disinhibited the soldier enough so he could act on the emotions he already had- and so it is with Jack and Sam.
      Ohhhhhhhh. That is an excellent theory! I just assumed it was going down to basic survival stuff, neanderthall style. I thought the soldier going after Teal'c was like two of the biggest men in the room going after each other, killing off your only competition so to speak. I figured the soldier glaring at Teal'c before the mission was perhaps because he was curious about the 'alien' and trying to cover his curiosity. I never thought of it as a dislike from the get go.



      Originally posted by VSS View Post
      It bothers me how Jack and Daniel intend to let that obviously human girl be raped by the primitive. Maybe they’re recalling the trouble they got into last time they meddled in intersex affairs, but still. Daniel just analyzes it and Jack just doesn’t want to get involved. Go Sam!
      I can see Jack kinda not interfering. Maybe it's something they're taught to do, not interfere with another cultures behaviour. But Daniel does bother me, not jumping in to stop it. Like in the last ep where he didn't jump in to go rescue a girl from stoning. Perhaps again I'm still too used to the Daniel who wants to save everyone and speaks his ideals and mind and have forgotten geeky, quiet, shy Daniel from season 1.

      Originally posted by VSS View Post
      Spoiler:
      We get to meet Janet for the first time! Okay, so no one on this show uses a tourniquet when they stick needles in and out of a person’s vein but I’ll overlook that just because they did an excellent job on Jack’s facial injury. It changes throughout the episode. Really outstanding attention to detail, there.
      Spoiler:
      Jacks Scar.... I remember reading somewhere on GW that the scar came from RDA stating that Jack could not possibly get hurt on his face that much without having a scar, so they started shaving a bit of his eyebrow to show the scar. Was this the ep where the scar came from????


      Originally posted by VSS View Post
      Nice ending. Tank top comment. Is that way over the line for a CO? He’s not under the influence of the virus at this point! I would think that it is over the line, especially so soon after his comment to her about the dress in Emancipation. And militant feminist Sam lets him get away with it! If this had been in the first episode, she’d have handed him his hat, if not his head. Well, it’s okay, Sam. We know why. You kinda like your CO, don’t you? Even if he is cocky, rude and doesn’t appreciate academics. He’s hot.

      So do you think that after all these years Daniel has spilled the beans to Sam about Jack decking him in the control room over her, or is he still holding that little secret over Jack’s head?

      Implications for Jack and Sam: Just in case we missed it, they find each other sexually attractive. Jack’s reaction to Daniel in the control room highlights exactly why it is that this kind of relationship is forbidden. It’s divisive, to say the least.
      Hmmmm I don't know if Daniel ever said anything to Sam. He tends to hold information to himself, and can do so for a very long time. (The Shroud!) I'm not sure if Jack would even remember unless someone brought it up. Over the years they've all been through so much more and possibly have forgotten the earlier 'bad' missions. Perhaps if/when Sam and Jack get together it'll be a joke, someone mentionning their first kiss, Daniel mentionning his first time on the receiving end of a punch? I don't think so though, while he might want to embarrass Jack, I can't see him wanting to anger Sam or take a joke too far....
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        Originally posted by josiane View Post
        And therefore it is very significant that the one thing they chose to demonstrate when the self-control was taken away is the attraction between Jack and Sam, and the effect that would have on the team if let loose (punch-up with Daniel).
        I never thought of it quite that way, the effect of a romantic relationship to the exclusion of all other things. But that's exactly what they did.

        IMHO it's somewhat crudely done - as you say, as if we hadn't already realised, there is Sexual Tension here. It's practically in neon flashing lights But y'know, eye candy, so not really complaining However when I first saw this episode I cringed at the locker room scene. I really didn't like how they were handling Sam's character at first, and this was part of it. I still cringe, a little, but also squee at the same time now, because of the hindsight and knowing what this is foreshadowing.
        lol on the bolded part.
        ITA about the locker room scene. Clear up through this episode Sam gets no other significant screen time EXCEPT when they emphasize her sex or gender.
        And although I do not think this characterization of her is solely because of the S/J ship, that's one valid point the anti-shippers have, and AT had at one point, and that is she was cast as Jack's girl. But hey, someone had to do it. Poor woman. (Said in my best Daniel-imitation. )

        Fortunately, I think the writers get past that.

        I love the ending too I think it's the perfect way to deal with the implications of what happened, and I find it the shippiest part of the episode. It's not just that Sam jumped Jack and that he said he didn't want her like that, it's how they deal with the awkwardness. Sam feels awkward about it (prefiguring how she always feels when approaching Jack about her/their feelings - cf D&C and Threads for example), and Jack, in typical Jack-style, deflects with humour. But the humour he uses here is incredibly affectionate and a little bit flirty, and puts Sam at her ease about the situation while also taking some of the blame on himself, almost. You're right that Sam of CotG would not have let him get away with it, and that speaks hugely to their developing friendship and comfort levels with one another. He knows how far he can tease her, and she no longer takes offence. Love it
        You summed that up much better than me.

        Originally posted by Toomi View Post
        I got a bit behind.... Just my comments on Emancipations, watching Broca Divide now

        Fave Quote:
        Jack: Damn, guess I'm gonna have to cancel that Oprah interview.
        Teal'c: What is an Oprah? (just the way it's said, cracks me up every time)


        I always thought these pop culture references would age the show, but Oprah and The Simpsons are still around. Amazing.

        Oppression of women. There are cultures out there who believe women do not have a place in the world other than to provide children and do the 'domestic' tasks. I understand that Sam is upset but she should figure it out pretty quick, even more so if she participated in the Gulf War. They would have (I'm assuming) given everyone briefs on what to do if they were captured by enemies and how as a woman she would have been treated.
        Nice point! I think that explains why I thought the ep was "preachy".

        RDA on a horse? And do you think it was AT who did the riding? Or a stunt double? I really want to know what that other mission was... where she drank something that made her take off....???
        Don't we all, Toomi, don't we all....

        When Sam wants to help the girl (Naya?) and Jack opposes, I really expect Daniel to back up Sam. I'm really suprised when he doesn't, asking if they have the right to question their customs. Given the Daniel Jackson I'm used to, that really threw me. I even had to go back and make sure I watched it right. He does come around, asking if there's an older law they can use.
        Those older laws really save Jack and Daniel from looking bad here, don't they? Just like the rock-throwing People of Light save them in The Broca Divide when they won't help the girl who's about to be raped.

        I did notice how Daniel still calls her Dr. Carter and when he enters her tent looking for her he calls 'Doctor' not Sam, Samantha, Captian or anything similar. I think JM said on his blog once that approximatly 2.5 weeks happen in between each episode (barring the 2 and 3 parters) and figuring out a timeline for Vala's pregnancy for another thread, that 2.5 weeks seemed very likely. If that's the case, it's been 5 weeks since COTG. Wouldn't Sam have told Daniel to call her Sam by now? To me this states that there's almost no interraction between them all after and between missions.
        You might be right. And Sam still doesn't know Jack's past, as we'll see in Cold Lazarus. I guess I always thought the "Dr." thing meant Sam still wasn't sure of her role- she still identifies herself as a scientist around Daniel. She's the one who told him to call her "Dr." in the first place. I think she's strugglin with her identity. I don't really think she finds it until Grace.

        OT, but it came to mind while watching this ep:
        Spoiler:
        I'm going waaaay of tangent perhaps here.... but this ep brings something to mind here and now. Recently, a female Canadian soldier was killed in Afghanistan. There was only one news report that headlined with 'Canadian soldier killed' all other stations emphasized that it was a Female soldier killed. The one station that didn't, talked about her career, family and goals, interviewing her superior officers, just the same as the other soldiers we have lost. The other stations chose to interview female soldiers in training, other female soldiers in Afghanistan and the family of another female soldier killed overseas. Despite the times changing, there is still an unequality in even 'developed' nations regarding women, not just in the military.

        I'm just bringing this up because this ep made me think of it. Do any of the other SG teams have women? Do we think they do? If wonder if after the briefing there was any discussion about having women on teams because of cultural differences? Before I hated this ep, but now it has a little relevance for me.
        OT
        Spoiler:
        They never showed any other women on SG teams besides Haley, IIRC. But, this should be something they're familiar with anyway, as you pointed out. Even in cultures that are more equitable, women still are at a somewhat higher risk. No guy is going to get raped and made pregnant by the enemy. I often wonder what the standard issue birth control is- these teams could be gone for a very long time.



        Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
        VSS, I always took the dark side just to mean it was dark because of the dense forest but I like your take.
        I thought that, too, at first. But in the very end, there's an aerial view of the people coming out of the forest, and it's clear that it really is dark there- as in night. Plus, the gate location- no one would have put it in a forest if a field was close by.

        Although, there isn't a stark line like that when night falls, either, except maybe on the moon. But hey, I can chalk that up to atmospheric differences.

        Comment


          Originally posted by VSS View Post
          You might be right. And Sam still doesn't know Jack's past, as we'll see in Cold Lazarus. I guess I always thought the "Dr." thing meant Sam still wasn't sure of her role- she still identifies herself as a scientist around Daniel. She's the one who told him to call her "Dr." in the first place. I think she's strugglin with her identity. I don't really think she finds it until Grace.
          I agree that Sam wasn't comfortable with being either a soldier or a scientist as her primary role and was unsure about herself in so many ways until around Grace.

          But if you introduced yourself to someone the first time you meet as 'Dr. Suchandsuch' then several weeks later after going on missions to potentially dangerous places, working on a team of only 4, would you not at some point say, hey, call me something other than Dr? I can't remember right now, but does Sam call Daniel, Daniel? Or Dr. Jackson? Jack and Daniel are on a first name basis, Teal'c is on a full name basis (and always will be it seems). Given that Daniel and Sam are in no way in a chain of command, more equals as scientists, wouldn't Sam have asked Daniel to call her Sam if they were closer? (as in friends )
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            I have a question about the music for the opening credits.... I've been sick and my ears aren't quite back to normal yet so it could be that...

            Watching these eps from season one, and listening to the credit music, it seems a little 'tinny' sounding. Not quite what I remember. I catch it mostly in the beginning half of the opening credit music. Anyone else notice this?
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              Originally posted by Toomi View Post
              [COLOR="Blue"]Broca Divide


              The pre mission briefing: Did they always wear Dress Blues (or greens for the Marines) for the pre mission briefings?
              Only in the beginning. I think this got to be a pain, like the freezing. And calling the gate room the "disembarkation room" as Sam does in this ep.

              Spoiler:
              Darkness, all the time? How is there abundant plant life? Plants need sunlight for photosynthesis, to grow, live, survive. Always bugged me. If it's as dark as General Hammond suggests in the briefing where the MALP can not see anything without light, and assuming that we can 'see' the people and surroundings is because otherwise it would be a very boring episode to watch a black screen, it would be pitch black most of the time.

              My thoughts on a 'dark side':
              The times they show the light and dark sides, it's a definative light/dark line. With rotation of a planet or with no rotation this doesn't happen. While it looks like there's a line on the moon between light and dark, there really isn't one. It just gets darker and darker before it's pure darkness. There's no magical line that if you jump from one side to the next it's lightside/darkside. The only time we see a difinitive dark line on Earth is during an eclipse, where the moon passes in front of the sun and blocks light. You can see a dark patch rushing towards you at incredible speeds until you're surrounded by dark. The only thing I can think of, if it's a true dark side of the planet that never sees light, is there is a moon that rotates with the planet around the star that always stays in the exact same spot, creating a permanent eclipse.


              Spoiler:
              Oh, this is a good explanation- because there wouldn't be a sharp line, due to diffraction. But whatever it was, it was a cool astronomical topic that they didn't touch on. As for the trees growing, I figure they only did so in a very narrow band near the light, where it is also a little damper than the field. And that's why I think it wasn't totally dark, that there's a little reflected light that George could see on the MALP, hence he knew they weren't going into a cave, or worse.


              Janet says to Jack that he can't have more sedative because he's above the maximum and he was more violent than anyone else. Why was that? Did the illness get him worse than anyone else? No tolerance for it? Or because he has a foul temper, dark places in his mind? I'm not saying that Jack is the kind of guy who flys off the handle and would kill someone in cold blood for a small matter, but we know (or come to know) that he has a temper, but keeps it pretty tightly checked.
              Nice point. I guess that it must take a certain kind of guy to be in Special Forces, and I'd be very, very surprised if there were any women in Special Forces. I do think he has his dark and violent side, which as you mention, is kept pretty well in check. Most of the time.


              Does Sam remember all that happened? The first time she sees Jack what is she thinking? I'd be freaking out, wondeirng what he thought. Would he despise me? Would he think I was crazy for picking him? Would he want to get as far away as possible from me after I went crazy all over him? When she appologizes to Jack she's probably got a million butterflies riding rollercoasters in her stomach, and he reminds her he was infected too, putting her at ease. Then he takes it a step further to joke about it which she doesn't seem to know how to take at first. She sees the joke, and that Jack is moving on and doesn't think more of it. It's showing that they've definatly become more comfortable around each other.
              I think I take this last scene quite a bit differently than you do. Jack could have set her at ease- he could have left it with, "I don't remember a thing- I was infected too." But he was just setting her up with that part! When he made the comment about the tank top, he let her know two things- first, that he remembered everything- totally contradicting what he'd just said. And second, he thinks she's hot, too. That the attraction is mutual. That's why she's got that little shocked look on her face.

              So yes, in one way, they're more comfortable around each other, but in another way, not so much.... Thus begins the UST they're famous for.
              Last edited by VSS; 15 April 2009, 03:23 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                I agree that Sam wasn't comfortable with being either a soldier or a scientist as her primary role and was unsure about herself in so many ways until around Grace.

                But if you introduced yourself to someone the first time you meet as 'Dr. Suchandsuch' then several weeks later after going on missions to potentially dangerous places, working on a team of only 4, would you not at some point say, hey, call me something other than Dr? I can't remember right now, but does Sam call Daniel, Daniel? Or Dr. Jackson? Jack and Daniel are on a first name basis, Teal'c is on a full name basis (and always will be it seems). Given that Daniel and Sam are in no way in a chain of command, more equals as scientists, wouldn't Sam have asked Daniel to call her Sam if they were closer? (as in friends )
                Hmm. Yes. I se what you mean now, he shouldn't have used any title with her, really. And when he says it, he's kind of shielding his eyes thinking she might not be fully attired- I think as they get more familiar with each other, they're not going to be quite that worried about modesty, either.
                Either that, or he's still remembering how hot she looked in that dress the day before and doesn't want to be exposed to still more of her womanly charms!

                Comment


                  First I'd like to say, in response to what Toomi wrote at the end of her Emancipation post (which was also great , that I believe SG-1 had a lot of meetings with each other apart from the debriefings and missions. I think Jack would do everything in his power to get to know these 3 strange people he now has under his command. He needs to get to know them, to judge their characters and see what their strenghts and weaknesses are, and do this before the missions. After all these people are completely different from Special Forces guys he had worked with earlier, and had known how they were trained and how they thought.

                  As for Daniel calling Sam "doctor" - I think it was quite in character for him. It was a sign of the respect. Contrary to fandom's opinion Daniel doesn't let people whom he doesn't know well call him by name. You here "Dr Jackson" a lot more often than "Daniel" from not-regulars. So it makes sense that he calls Sam "Doctor" also, because they aren't friends yet but in this way he stresses his respect towards her.

                  And now, onto Broca Divide - an episode I strangely enough like very much. in fact it's one of my favourites in season 1.

                  Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                  [
                  Sam jumps Jack. Jack has no idea why, but has a hard time fighting her off (given she got several hard kisses in, managed to pin him down....). Either he's completely fine, very suprised and part of him is enjoying it and doesn't want to stop it, or the illness is starting to get to him and his primitave instincts are screaming at him to procreate but not very strongly.
                  That's what I think as well. And this scene has got to be the hottest in the entire series. Actually it's the only scene (apart from the whole WOO) my best friend likes to watch. I tried to get her into SG, unsuccessfully, but every time she sees me watching SG-1 she asks if she can see this one scene one more time because it's sexy as h**

                  When Jack is telling Daniel about what happened with him and Sam he seems very uncomfortable. I think he's not quite gone 'primative' yet and he's horribly embarrased for her sake and his. Did anyone see? They know it's an illness but not what it is, or what it's doing to them. Jack has no idea why Sam jumped him. He's probalby running a million scenarios in his mind as to why, what caused it, how does the illness pass from person to person etc. He's probably also concerned about his and Sam's career.
                  Again, I agree. And I definitely saw that he wasn't comfortable with the idea. That's why his sudden change, as VSS pointed out, comes as such a shock.

                  I bet at this point, he doesn't see Sam as someone he'd like to date. She's just a co-worker, a team member, and I still don't think the team is terribly close with each other. If he didn't know Sam and ran into her, got talking, he'd probably ask her out... maybe... He can't miss the fact she's gorgeous (AT is!!!!)
                  And here is when I disagree. Yes, in season 1 there's definite sexual tension, definite attraction and the beginning of a beautiful friendship, but I don't see anything else yet. Actually I believe Jack's still pinning for Sarah, and I can't see him dating, or even thinking about other women at this point. It's too early.

                  She doesn't go after the leader of the base, Hammond, and subconsciously she considers Jack a tougher man than Hammond.
                  I haven't thought about this, and frankly the idea of Sam "seducing" gen. Hammond is hilarious, but this is a really valid point.

                  Janet says to Jack that he can't have more sedative because he's above the maximum and he was more violent than anyone else. Why was that? Did the illness get him worse than anyone else? No tolerance for it? Or because he has a foul temper, dark places in his mind? I'm not saying that Jack is the kind of guy who flys off the handle and would kill someone in cold blood for a small matter, but we know (or come to know) that he has a temper, but keeps it pretty tightly checked.
                  I think it's supposed to suggest how "manly" (for the lack of better word) Jack is - she does say at one point (I'm not sure if in this episode) that his testosterone levels are very high. And anyway as a Special Forces/experimental pilot Jack has to have an aggressive, "take charge" personality.

                  for Daniel's unibrow!!!! And Sams!!!!!!!!!


                  I can see Jack kinda not interfering. Maybe it's something they're taught to do, not interfere with another cultures behaviour. But Daniel does bother me, not jumping in to stop it. Like in the last ep where he didn't jump in to go rescue a girl from stoning. Perhaps again I'm still too used to the Daniel who wants to save everyone and speaks his ideals and mind and have forgotten geeky, quiet, shy Daniel from season 1.
                  I definitely see Jack not interfering - I guess it's part of his Special Forces training too. Interfering means receiving attention and this is the last thing soldiers in black ops need.
                  As for Daniel - again, I think he's in his scientific mood at this point. He doesn't think about actual people, he thinks only about seeing history with his own eyes. Besides he's an anthropologist too, and as far as I know they also observe without interfering nowadays.
                  There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                  awesome sig by Josiane

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                    Originally posted by VSS View Post
                    OT
                    Spoiler:
                    They never showed any other women on SG teams besides Haley, IIRC. But, this should be something they're familiar with anyway, as you pointed out. Even in cultures that are more equitable, women still are at a somewhat higher risk. No guy is going to get raped and made pregnant by the enemy. I often wonder what the standard issue birth control is- these teams could be gone for a very long time.
                    There are other women in SG teams. If you pay close attention, you can see them sometimes in the scenes when some other team goes off-world/comes back or accompanies SG-1. In season 7 (I think it was Avenger 2.0, but i'm not sure) there's even a woman on the Marines team.

                    Originally posted by Toomi
                    But if you introduced yourself to someone the first time you meet as 'Dr. Suchandsuch' then several weeks later after going on missions to potentially dangerous places, working on a team of only 4, would you not at some point say, hey, call me something other than Dr? I can't remember right now, but does Sam call Daniel, Daniel? Or Dr. Jackson? Jack and Daniel are on a first name basis, Teal'c is on a full name basis (and always will be it seems). Given that Daniel and Sam are in no way in a chain of command, more equals as scientists, wouldn't Sam have asked Daniel to call her Sam if they were closer? (as in friends )
                    Jack and Daniel call each other by name, but throughout most of the movie they also used each other titles. Or surnames.
                    Did anybody noticed that Jack is the only one who is always O'Neill to Teal'c? Not "JackO'Neill", not "ColonelO'Neill", but always, right from the start, O'Neill. I read once that it was supposed to mean that Teal'c treated/treats Jack as a brother rather than just friend/collegue/CO and I quite like this interpretation, but does anyone have different idea?
                    There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                    awesome sig by Josiane

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                      Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                      I have a question about the music for the opening credits.... I've been sick and my ears aren't quite back to normal yet so it could be that...

                      Watching these eps from season one, and listening to the credit music, it seems a little 'tinny' sounding. Not quite what I remember. I catch it mostly in the beginning half of the opening credit music. Anyone else notice this?
                      IIRC, the whole credit sequence is not the same in all of these eps. I noticed it had changed in The Enemy Within.

                      Originally posted by VSS View Post

                      I’ve heard people comment that SG-1 seemed almost sexless- obviously they meant after the first season. Why don’t we see this kind of thing later on? I do think that the gratuitous full frontal nudity of CotG was unnecessary, but they could have ramped up the UST between our heroes more than they did, without crossing the line. Considering the situation, I’d have expected it. Their restraint was admirable, but frankly unbelievable, don’t you think?
                      Does anyone want to take a crack at these questions? Please?

                      There are other women in SG teams. If you pay close attention, you can see them sometimes in the scenes when some other team goes off-world/comes back or accompanies SG-1. In season 7 (I think it was Avenger 2.0, but i'm not sure) there's even a woman on the Marines team.
                      Yes, but none with names. I can't think of any that we actually meet besides Haley. They don't even give any lines to any other women SG members.

                      Edit: Not that they have to reflect demographics, but there's not enough racial diversity, either. I think the USAF is about 75% caucasian and 80% male. Although SG teams may be entirely different. To me, they seem closer to Special Forces teams, in a way. So maybe there doesn't have to be 20% women on the teams for it to be realistic.
                      Last edited by VSS; 15 April 2009, 04:15 PM.

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                        Originally posted by VSS View Post

                        Does anyone want to take a crack at these questions? Please?
                        Well, I agree that the show was quite sexless. I'm not talking about graphic scenes, mind you (although I'm in the camp supporting nudity scene in CotG), but something more than a few kisses would have been nice.
                        And although I completely understand why UST wasn't played up more, I still wish it was. You are right, it's totally unbelievable that they would keep their hands off each other for the entire 8 years. Especially taking into consideration that at least since D&C they knew their mutual feelings are more than just sexual attraction. To not turn to each other after one near-death experience too many is just..unbelievable.

                        And then there were times when the guilt was involved, and people often use sex as a remedy to make themselves feel better. The thought crossed my mind when I thought about the consequences of "Abyss" and how Jack would deal with the torture, ans Sam with the guilt of making him accept the symbiote.

                        And there were episodes where they weren't exactly themselves. Personally I don't believe that their relationship in Beneath the Surface remained totally platonic.

                        Yes, but none with names. I can't think of any that we actually meet besides Haley. They don't even give any lines to any other women SG members.
                        True, but how many members of the other teams we met, apart from their leaders? And even the number of the leaders isn't that big.
                        There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                          Originally posted by VSS View Post
                          I think I take this last scene quite a bit differently than you do. Jack could have set her at ease- he could have left it with, "I don't remember a thing- I was infected too." But he was just setting her up with that part! When he made the comment about the tank top, he let her know two things- first, that he remembered everything- totally contradicting what he'd just said. And second, he thinks she's hot, too. That the attraction is mutual. That's why she's got that little shocked look on her face.

                          So yes, in one way, they're more comfortable around each other, but in another way, not so much.... Thus begins the UST they're famous for.
                          I like the way you put that, but I'm confused. Are you saying that Jack wanted to tell Sam that he thought she was hot? Or are you saying he was trying to say it without really saying it and Sam caught on?

                          I think I agree with col aga on this one that Jack isn't ready for anything further, relationship wise, with anyone. Why would he tell Sam he thinks she's hot? To antagonize her? To tease her?

                          Yes, the attraction is mutual, made quite clear to us, the viewers, but would Jack want to make it clear to Sam too given the issues with the chain of command? Would that be seen as an innappropriate relationship right then and there a CO telling a member of his team, several ranks below him, that he thinks she's hot?


                          Originally posted by col aga View Post
                          First I'd like to say, in response to what Toomi wrote at the end of her Emancipation post (which was also great , that I believe SG-1 had a lot of meetings with each other apart from the debriefings and missions. I think Jack would do everything in his power to get to know these 3 strange people he now has under his command. He needs to get to know them, to judge their characters and see what their strenghts and weaknesses are, and do this before the missions. After all these people are completely different from Special Forces guys he had worked with earlier, and had known how they were trained and how they thought.
                          Good point about Jack wanting to get to know the members of his team. I perhaps understated what I meant by them not really hanging out with each other.

                          I'm assuming that there is training for Daniel on weapons and perhaps military tactics, basic fighting and fitness stuff etc. Sam, while having all the training, will need to maintain it to meet Air Force requirments, and Teal'c would have to be taught Earth ways, Earth weapons, and US military tactics, also probably teaching others the ways of the Jaffa and Goa'uld. Other than the minimum requirements out of all of them, I don't see them meeting up for a meal in the commissary, hanging out in each others offices/labs etc. While Jack would have more interraction with his team as he needs to for the team, none of the others will other than training, de-briefings etc. I don't think Teal'c and Daniel have a quick chat in an office/quarters, I don't think Daniel stops by Sam's lab to chat, share a coffee etc.


                          Originally posted by col aga View Post
                          As for Daniel calling Sam "doctor" - I think it was quite in character for him. It was a sign of the respect. Contrary to fandom's opinion Daniel doesn't let people whom he doesn't know well call him by name. You here "Dr Jackson" a lot more often than "Daniel" from not-regulars. So it makes sense that he calls Sam "Doctor" also, because they aren't friends yet but in this way he stresses his respect towards her.
                          But after several weeks and working on the same team? Doesn't Sam call him Daniel by this point? Couldn't there have been a discussion at some point where they both asked each other to refer to each other by their first names? I like the idea that Daniel uses the 'Doctor' prefix out of respect for Sam, but it just irks me that he's doing it given the team setting that is being shown.

                          Originally posted by col aga View Post
                          And here is when I disagree. Yes, in season 1 there's definite sexual tension, definite attraction and the beginning of a beautiful friendship, but I don't see anything else yet. Actually I believe Jack's still pinning for Sarah, and I can't see him dating, or even thinking about other women at this point. It's too early.
                          Ok, maybe not at this exact point in time, but given a few years, Jack walks into a bar or something, sees this hot woman, he might make an attempt to get her talking....
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                            Originally posted by VSS View Post

                            I’ve heard people comment that SG-1 seemed almost sexless- obviously they meant after the first season. Why don’t we see this kind of thing later on? I do think that the gratuitous full frontal nudity of CotG was unnecessary, but they could have ramped up the UST between our heroes more than they did, without crossing the line. Considering the situation, I’d have expected it. Their restraint was admirable, but frankly unbelievable, don’t you think?
                            I'm curious as to what you mean by sexless? Lack of romantic realtionships?
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                              Originally posted by col aga View Post
                              Well, I agree that the show was quite sexless. I'm not talking about graphic scenes, mind you (although I'm in the camp supporting nudity scene in CotG), but something more than a few kisses would have been nice.
                              And although I completely understand why UST wasn't played up more, I still wish it was. You are right, it's totally unbelievable that they would keep their hands off each other for the entire 8 years. Especially taking into consideration that at least since D&C they knew their mutual feelings are more than just sexual attraction. To not turn to each other after one near-death experience too many is just..unbelievable.

                              And then there were times when the guilt was involved, and people often use sex as a remedy to make themselves feel better. The thought crossed my mind when I thought about the consequences of "Abyss" and how Jack would deal with the torture, ans Sam with the guilt of making him accept the symbiote.

                              And there were episodes where they weren't exactly themselves. Personally I don't believe that their relationship in Beneath the Surface remained totally platonic.
                              Thank you for answering! I agree with this. It's why people question whether or not these two really do have very deep feelings for each other. And while I understand that they wouldn't really want to have them cross the line, they could have at least seemed to struggle a little bit more with that particular issue.

                              Which is why I think they never showed them stranded, alone, together. No one would have believed they'd keep their distance for very long!

                              But it seems to me that the whole show was that way, too, not just Jack and Sam.

                              True, but how many members of the other teams we met, apart from their leaders? And even the number of the leaders isn't that big.
                              Okay, I'm convinced. Plus, I do think SG teams are different. FOr one thing, they all seem to be officers and only 18% (I looked it up!) USAF officers are women. And it's physically demanding, dangerous and they seem to be gone often and unpredictably- so I think a lot of women aren't going to pursue being on an SG team. They really are like special ops.

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                                Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                                I'm curious as to what you mean by sexless? Lack of romantic realtionships?
                                Well, yes. And just in general a lack of interest in the opposite sex, relationship or not. I guess it has to do with the fact that they really never showed a hint of anything that occurred in the private lives of the characters, unless it was part of the story. I have just heard people say the show significantly lacked sex appeal, for want of a better word. I don't really even know if that is true.

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