Browder's character should OUTRANK Carter

[BackStageJim]

Least we forget the joy of Jack and Sam squaring off in different corners of the SGC conference room in ‘Children of the Gods.’

Carter is off doing something in first five shoots of season nine, so to keep military present open, another Col will need to be there. Naturally, Teal’c, and Jackson would not lead. So I see some red shirt to replace Carter science role, and a by the books guy replacing O’Neill. Red shirt dies, heroically, much like Lt Elloit did with Lantash. Nice ending. The by the books, Col. Browder, continues as Carter returns, and the fire ignites. O’Nell will spend time keeping the woman ‘cares for more then he should’, and the new guy from messing up a great gig.

Owever, there is no relationship between Col Browder and Carter. I would have him married with kids, as something for him to always fight to come home to.

Now I will ring to my Mother ship.

[Dana_Jeanne]

In one of Cooper's interviews with Sci-Fi wire, he mentioned that BB's character was a 'seasoned' Lt Col. This gave me the impression that he has been a Lt Col longer than Carter, in which case he would out-rank her.

Dana Jeanne

[Frostfox]

In one of Cooper's interviews with Sci-Fi wire, he mentioned that BB's character was a 'seasoned' Lt Col. This gave me the impression that he has been a Lt Col longer than Carter, in which case he would out-rank her.

Dana Jeanne

I don't doubt Sam's leadership qualities (well, not most of the time, but it's usualy TPTB which muck things up, not her) but I think the dramatic tension of having Bowder's character out rank her is far more interesting and gives much more room for conflict.

[Guest]

This is gonna sound like a Supreme Court decision, but I agree in part and disagree in part.

Concurrence: I think Carter has some leadership potential, but she is primarily a scientist, not a soldier, and I don't think she has the command experience necessary to make serious life and death decisions.

Dissent: One's military rank is not determined by command experience or potential alone. Many officers of high rank are scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. There is no reason why Ben Browder's character should outrank her in RANK, but could outrank her in position. Consider for example, Star Trek III-VI. At one point, CAPTAIN James T. Kirk commanded the Enterprise, yet CAPTAIN Spock was his first officer and CAPTAIN Scott was his engineer. They were all equal in rank, but Kirk was higher in position.

Based on the gateworld article, BB's character is going to be a LT. Colonel, just like Carter. If he assumes command, he could be promoted to a full Colonel, but even if he remains a Lt. Colonel, he will outrank Carter in position, but otherwise, they share the same rank.

To be honest, however, Tea'lc would make an excellent commander. He successfully commanded Apophis' Jaffa Army for 50+ years and has proven his loyalty and command abilities over 8-9 years of service with SGC. Teal'c also has more experience going through the gate and fighting the Goa'uld and other enemies. BB's character is less experienced in the important things, like fighting aliens, and using alien tech, than he is in command.

U.S. military tends to be a stickler for rank. If BB has more time in grade as LT Col, he automatically outranks her. If Carter has more time in grade, she automatically outranks him. Your description of ST is a perfect example of time in grade. Kirk has been a captain the longest, Spock next and then Scott. So the ranks are appropriate.

Bumping him up to full bird just to fix the pecking order in SG1 is not as easy as it sounds. Time in grade, time in service and a multitude of educational credits, both military and civilian, would be required to attain that rank. It would maybe be possible to make him an acting Col but I doubt that they would go to those extremes.

If, as Dana_Jeanne mentioned, BB's character is a "seasoned" Lt Col, then he will automatically outrank Carter and unless there is a good reason for Carter retaining command (and not just cause she was there first) then BB's character will lead SG1.

Not that I like that idea... I prefer to see Carter get her chance, but it may be the way they go since Carter is a scientist. However, her being a scientist wouldn't automatically remove her for command if BB does not outrank her. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, if BB's character has spent his career in the cockpit, that also doesn't make him necessarily quailified to command ground ops.

[graculus]

thought of Gemini

Haven't seen it yet.

send TPTB your writing resume TODAY!

TPTB would have to call me and ask very nicely.

There are two possibilities: BB gets promoted to full Colonel or they both remain equal rank with BB having a command position and Carter being a "back-up" of sorts.

I'm still not following this argument. If they remain with *equal* rank, why does BB get the command position?

One's military rank is not determined by command experience or potential alone.

Very true! And Carter was seasoned before she even joined SG-1, so just calling BB "seasoned" is not an assertion that he has more experience than Carter.

Tea'lc would make an excellent commander.

It's bumming me out that the military can't find a way to put Teal'c in charge of some stuff. But I guess giving him time off to lead Jaffa Rebels is a form of acknowledging his experience.

she may decide to pursue her personal life more

Jack was married when he was fighting in Iraq. And he was the first to point out that service to the SGC does not preclude a personal life. If male officers get to have a family while serving their country, why can't Carter?

it would be easier to slip in and out of the SGC/ an off-world team if she did need time off to have/care for children

Or Pete could take on his share of the childcare. Jack mentioned other people at the SGC had children as well.

Not that I'll gripe if he DOES get command. That could be fun too. (yes, I'm easy.)

I certainly don't mind seeing BB in action. Mmmm, eye candy.

But I think TPTB like to stir the pot when it comes to the fans.

I agree. And perhaps they want to assure people that they aren't going to try the Newbie-Worms-His-Way-Onto-Premiere-Team strategy again.

Whatever the command situation will be, I only hope that there is some tension involved in resolving it...as long as they don't make it a simple, easy transition, I'll be happy.

Great point! I hope the writers don't let any opportunity for good story-telling slip by. Making BB's character similar in rank and experience to Carter is a set up for conflict.

Later,
Graculus

[jckfan55]

I really don't understand why they want to muddy the waters of speculation by saying he is the same grade as Carter. It would be much easier to make him a Major or a full Colonel so there would be no kavetching... But I think TPTB like to stir the pot when it comes to the fans.

I agree that Sam hasn't been given the chance to show her leadership abilities. She has them. Other eps in previous seasons when she has had to lead, she has done it well. A fighter pilot usually doesn't necessarily have the leadship skills when it comes to ground based ops.

BB's character could just be a pilot that has earned his rank strictly from the front seat of a fighter. If that's the case, he wouldn't quailfy as a leader but the military doesn't necessasrily think like that.

I think that Sam needs the writers to give her the chance to show what she can do and hopefully, she won't have to prove her worth to the newbie...

Yes to the above. Even if I agreed that this new character could make for "new" drama etc, (which I'm not sure is an automatic good thing), don't disrespect the core cast & AT in particular by acting as if their characters are completely dispensable, or that (w/Carter are somehow less than competent) or as if they *haven't* saved the world umpteen times and deserve respect.

[jckfan55]

Ranking Browder above Sam also makes for a good plot device. Tensions in the team when the new man on the block takes over. Jumping the queue of sorts. (I think Americans spell queue as cue.)

We might also say jumping "the line." Maybe we're supposed to hate him at the beginning.

[graculus]

I was thinking of this in the Daniel/Vala thread:

Spoiler: Isn't Daniel supposed to be at the edge of death during Moebius - close enough that he would consider ascending again? This suggests to me that the first five eps of next season might take place off-world. Vala might actually assist in rescuing Daniel. There may be some reason that Sam has to stay at the SGC, so BB's character could be assigned to help find Daniel. BB's character would have a chance to prove himself before setting up the dynamic with him working under Carter's command.

I haven't read that many spoilers, though, so let me know if there's something known about Moebius that makes this situation unlikely.

Later,
Graculus

[hrh36]

>>If male officers get to have a family while serving their country, why can't Carter?<<

Amen!

hrh

[Ugly Pig]

I haven't bothered to read the rest of this thread and the probable flame-war, but...

Carter is a good team player, but she's the better part of an esemble. As a character alone, she's just not that interesting.

What does this have to do with her rank? She's not "a character alone" because she's the leader of SG-1. Sorry, I see no reason for why Browder's character should be put in charge. And I must say, I hope it won't happen (not that I believe it will).

[Guest]

I haven't bothered to read the rest of this thread and the probable flame-war, but...

What does this have to do with her rank? She's not "a character alone" because she's the leader of SG-1. Sorry, I see no reason for why Browder's character should be put in charge. And I must say, I hope it won't happen (not that I believe it will).

Actually, it's been quite civilized! No flames... just opinions...

[Ugly Pig]

Actually, it's been quite civilized! No flames... just opinions...

Incredible.

[THE BIG UNIT]

I'd hate it if he came in and replaced sam as leader, it would annoy me beyond belief. Sam may not be a leader like jack, but i don't want her to be. sam is in the position she is because she has saved the world probably ten times, was 21C for 7 yrs, and by then would have been in command for a year. All those great accoplishments would be far greater than a guy who backed up SG1 by commanding the F302 fleet and got shot down. If they bring in a new guy to lead, it would be a huge slap in the face to alot of longtime fans. There are alot of fans out there who like carter, aswell as some who dislike her, but that is the same with every character, popularity wise, they are probably all equal, thus meaning alot of fans will hate the idea of a new guy taking over - Or i would anyway.

[astrogeologist]

Browder's character should definitely NOT outrank Carter! I have to agree with those who've already posted stated that to have BB's character outrank Carter is a slap in the face - to SC, AT and female soldiers in general.

I also think it would have been fun to have Ben Browder's character come in as a Major (instead of a Lt. Col) -- and that way Carter would have had a subordinate officer to command (just as O'Neill had). That said, I am trying to keep an open mind as the writers have (so far) done a great job dealing with new characters and the absences of old ones....

SG-1 will sorely miss the character of Sam Carter even if AT only misses 5 episodes. Amanda Tapping has done a simply superb job that I have not seen equaled by any other female lead in a Science Fiction show (and I have watched every episode of every sci fi show that I could catch for the past 30 years).

And, I have to admit that I was looking forward to Carter getting to command out in the field. In science fiction shows, the female lead is so often the 2IC, the second in command...and/or the science officer...with the major lead and overall commander being a male actor. I was really looking forward to Sam Carter moving into the command position more than they have shown so far. AT would handle it superbly!

And I can't imagine SG-1 if they lose BOTH AT and RDA... Then it just loses the feel of SG-1 ... and becomes SGC... which could make a good show... I would just prefer that they didn't call it SG-1 when they are going to lose 2 of the 4 leads.

So - I'll take AT and RDA in whatever capacity that the can participate and I just hope that the series writers and directors use the two lead actors in major storylines (and not just as background).

I find myself actually looking forward (albeit apprehensively ) to what the writers will devise for Sam Carter’s absence. I hope that the writers and directors come up with some truly creative ways to deal with the absences of AT and RDA in Season 9. To date, the Stargate writers and directors have surprised and impressed me with how well they handled Michael Shanks' departure for Season 6 and then RDA's reduced availability in Seasons 7 and 8. Having Daniel ascend after saving Jonas' planet was truly 'big'... truly heroic, and a great send-off (seeings that they didn't know that MS would be wanting to come back). And then – having Daniel take on Anubis single-handedly… again, appropriately ‘big and heroic’ for a sci-fi lead character.

And the accommodations for RDA in terms of the shooting schedules and the creative scripts that maintain O'Neill's presence. Allowing him to become a general, allowing his character to grow and develop. All very well done.

And the integration of Ben Browder’s character sounds smartly done – that they are going to create a backstory for him that interweaves his character with the past many years of Stargate lore. What I’ve heard so far sounds appropriately ‘big and heroic’ for a lead character of SG-1 – what it will take to have the Stargate audience embrace the new character.

Now... I just hope that the writers and directors can think 'big' and 'heroic' when it comes to storylines that deal with the absences of AT and RDA in Season 9. Hmmm... what I'm trying to say is that I hope that they don't do something lame... like say that Carter is just off working at the Academy, or on some research project or some such. That's a throwaway idea - not fit for what they have done so far. Beings that AT is slated to come back, I hope that they come up with a big storyline that intrigues the viewers. Maybe something that plays off that phrase that O'Neill used in the Lost City... 'National Treasure/National Resource'... I think there's a good episode title in there somewhere...

As for RDA... if he truly isn't coming back at all?... that's a bit tougher...hopefully they can get him to commit to at least a few episodes?

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Links:
- SciFi Channel Bulletin Board Thread 'Season 9 News'
- Solutions

[Mio]

it depends

cue is to
take your cue, cue up the music/tape, cue ball

queue means the same as it does in the uk, to line up. it's just not a common term over here

(I'm American)
I use them like this:
Cue - A signal of some kind.
Queue - A line.