Browder's character should OUTRANK Carter

[Lightsabre]

Originally Posted by Lightsabre
"My god, have you read the spoilers or this thread at ALL??"

"My god. IF you are going to participate, at least have read SOME of the thread."

"My god, don't think much of yourself, do you."

"But hey, your the one who seems immature and insecure. I can't disagree with you without the personal shots??"

"you know, those of us who are adults have things called discussions."

"BUt all that can be done without attacking the other person. When you can do that, hey, welcome to adulthood."

"No one's asked you to go through it again. Did you ever think that maybe, if you mentionin things ad nauseum and people are still disagreeing with you, that your the only one who thinks either 1)carter can/should command
2)Fans actually want to see Carter command(with the exception of Sam fans, of course)
3)Your the only one who thinks she's done a 'great' job in the role."

"If you thinkthe discussion is usless, stop posting, but please don't blame me if your arguments go round in circles."

"Read the spoilers.
SG-1 is DISBANDED. SO THEY LEFT. I cannot make it any bloody more clear than that."

"YOu want to argue about Browder coming on, go start a new thread."

"Oh please, can people stop with this insult crap."

"Did you read where I wrote IT"S NOT APPLICABLE IN THIS CASE????
It's there in black and white."

I'm assuming that, as long as it's coming from someone who isn't a "newbie," this kind of behavior is acceptable.

I think I'm gonna have to check the Forum Rules and FAQs again. Just to make sure. Thanks for the warning, though!

All out of context.
The 2 posts there that were actually insults directed at a person were in response to an insult directed at me. THe rest weren't attacks, merely expressions of my frustration.
I don't know why exactly you decided to pop into this thread and attack me, but please stop it.

[BritAngie]

Can someone please direct me to the article, thread post, ect that states inexplicably that Cameron will be the permanent leader of SG-1? I know I have read that SG-1 has been disband. I have read that Cameron will join the team. I have also read that Mitchell wanted to be a member of SG-1 and learn from the 'best', and the last I looked Sam was the commander of SG-1 so who exactly do you think he was referring to? I have also read that Browder will be leader of SG-1 when the series begins; however, from what I have seen in the episode photographs neither Teal'c nor Daniel are even members of SG-1, so my question is, who exactly is Mitchell leading?

If you read back along this meandering thread (make sure you have lots of food and drink to tide you over! ) you should find some quotes and links.

[IncessantBabbler]

All out of context.
The 2 posts there that were actually insults directed at a person were in response to an insult directed at me. THe rest weren't attacks, merely expressions of my frustration.
I don't know why exactly you decided to pop into this thread and attack me, but please stop it.

I'm sorry that you feel like this is an attack. It really isn't. I've read what you said and I disagreed in kind. When you get riled up, you make outbursts like the ones I quoted with little regard for other people who post here. Yet still you post, without having been publicly reprimanded on this thread.

Whatever your reasons for responding that way, it doesn't negate the fact that you behave in a combative fashion on a regular basis.

I don't appreciate being treated a certain way because anyone PRESUMES to know how long I've been on this forum. It may say five or six posts next to my name up there, but I am by NO means inexperienced.

[Madeleine]

I don't appreciate being treated a certain way because anyone PRESUMES to know how long I've been on this forum. It may say five or six posts next to my name up there, but I am by NO means inexperienced.

Okay, you're very very experienced, go back to my previous post and pretend the word 'newbie' is missing from it, I totally take back the word 'newbie' and totally apologise for calling you a 'newbie'.

Now, please drop it, you're Off Topic.

[IncessantBabbler]

Okay, you're very very experienced, go back to my previous post and pretend the word 'newbie' is missing from it, I totally take back the word 'newbie' and totally apologise for calling you a 'newbie'.

Now, please drop it, you're Off Topic.

It's dropped! It's nice to know we can all play fair and with equal treatment here.

Mitchell will be in charge from the get-go.

And, in regards to whether Sam would come back as leader or not:

One would assume so.

I'm noticing a pattern here. It's a pattern that involves being vague and making us think too much. It also suggests what has been said before about the SGC and The JCs coming up with some kind of compromise that involves Sam and Mitchell working together with joint command.

I only say that because they've been treated differently since S1. They're apparently the first team to pull off having only 3 members, while still being successful. They're the only team (that we know of) with an alien and civilian on board, that isn't devoted to random mineral surveys or diplomatic relations. And, it makes sense for the SGC to devote their two "best" officers to the flagship team. Plus, since they wouldn't have to choose between the two, it wouldn't anger so many fans. It's the safest route. I'm not sure if they'd take it, but it's a shot...

[Madeleine]

It also suggests what has been said before about the SGC and The JCs coming up with some kind of compromise that involves Sam and Mitchell working together with joint command.

Does joint command ever happen in RL?

(I don't know these things )

[IncessantBabbler]

Does joint command ever happen in RL?

(I don't know these things )

Uh... I don't really have any military experience (no living family members who were in the service), but I'd have to say probably not...

Then again, this is a show about a team of Air Force officers, aliens, and an archaeologist who fight intergalactic wars through wormholes, time travel, and space ships... The only realism that's remained is the stuff that abides by Air Force regulations and some of the technobabble. I think we lost our "real life" possibilities somewhere near "Children of the Gods." Anything can happen!

[Lightsabre]

I'm sorry that you feel like this is an attack. It really isn't. I've read what you said and I disagreed in kind. When you get riled up, you make outbursts like the ones I quoted with little regard for other people who post here. Yet still you post, without having been publicly reprimanded on this thread.

Whatever your reasons for responding that way, it doesn't negate the fact that you behave in a combative fashion on a regular basis.

I don't appreciate being treated a certain way because anyone PRESUMES to know how long I've been on this forum. It may say five or six posts next to my name up there, but I am by NO means inexperienced.

Hmm, why would I feel attacked? you come on, out of the blue, attack me with an overtly combative post, for no apparent reason.
Then you post, completely out of context, other times where I"ve lost my temper or had an outburst.
COngratulations, you've proved I'm human.
As to combative behaviour, I've posted many, many more times, that weren't combative at all. so I'm hardly 'regularly' combative.
For someone who claims experience, you certainly don't show it.
You attack me, then when a mod reprimmands you, you attack me.
If you have a problem take it up with the mods, I'm not one, I can hardly reprimmand myself.
If you have a problem with me, take it to PM.
BUT STOP ATTACKING ME.

[Lightsabre]

Uh... I don't really have any military experience (no living family members who were in the service), but I'd have to say probably not...

Then again, this is a show about a team of Air Force officers, aliens, and an archaeologist who fight intergalactic wars through wormholes, time travel, and space ships... The only realism that's remained is the stuff that abides by Air Force regulations and some of the technobabble. I think we lost our "real life" possibilities somewhere near "Children of the Gods." Anything can happen!

But they do aim for realisim and they do have Air Force advisors.
So, if joint command doesn't happen in RL, it's unlikely to happen in SG.

[IncessantBabbler]

Hmm, why would I feel attacked? you come on, out of the blue, attack me with an overtly combative post, for no apparent reason.
Then you post, completely out of context, other times where I"ve lost my temper or had an outburst.
COngratulations, you've proved I'm human.
As to combative behaviour, I've posted many, many more times, that weren't combative at all. so I'm hardly 'regularly' combative.
For someone who claims experience, you certainly don't show it.
You attack me, then when a mod reprimmands you, you attack me.
If you have a problem take it up with the mods, I'm not one, I can hardly reprimmand myself.
If you have a problem with me, take it to PM.
BUT STOP ATTACKING ME.

Ummmmm....

*cough*

I thought we dropped this.

Guess not? Again, I'm sorry that you felt attacked. It wasn't as personal as it appeared.

But they do aim for realisim and they do have Air Force advisors.
So, if joint command doesn't happen in RL, it's unlikely to happen in SG.

It may be unlikely, but it's not entirely impossible.

First of all, unless someone can say, without a doubt, that there's no such thing as joint command for a military team, we can only ASSUME what the Air Force would consider acceptable. And that's still under the assumption that a science fiction show wouldn't manipulate the rules a tad (within reason, of course).

Again, considering this is a team comprised of military officers, aliens and civilians who battle interplanetary forms of evil on a WEEKLY basis, no matter how "realistic" Stargate SG-1 tries to be, there are gonna be quite a few aspects of the show that are simply implausible.

No matter what the RL Generals say about RDA's Jack O'Neill, it's rather unlikely that a man of his... er frivolity and flippant behavior (bless him ) would get him to Brigadier General and THEN possibly Major General in less than a year and a half. Jack's a hero, no doubt about it. But if we're really looking at the RL brass and politics that would go into his promotion, it's highly unlikely. He's a favorite of the President, great. But it's still cause for question. This is a guy who said, "'I, insert name,'" as the General of the base and during a promotion ceremony. Realistically speaking, he's most likely NOT many people's first pick for the position of Base CO, let alone HOMEWORLD SECURITY.

Aaaanywho... I'm not gonna rule out such a compromise for Sam and Cam, just like I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that Cam's gonna keep the command of SG-1 indefinitely. Anything is possible from here on out. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Madeleine]

Yup, stuff is dropped, and dropped stuff should stay dropped.

No matter what the RL Generals say about RDA's Jack O'Neill, it's rather unlikely that a man of his... er frivolity and flippant behavior (bless him ) would get him to Brigadier General and THEN possibly Major General in less than a year and a half. Jack's a hero, no doubt about it. But if we're really looking at the RL brass and politics that would go into his promotion, it's highly unlikely. He's a favorite of the President, great. But it's still cause for question. This is a guy who said, "'I, insert name,'" as the General of the base and during a promotion ceremony. Realistically speaking, he's most likely NOT many people's first pick for the position of Base CO, let alone HOMEWORLD SECURITY.

Does anyone else think that the Peter Principle is in evidence with Jack? (The theory that most people who get promoted a few times always end up one level above that to which they are most suited.) Jack was probably the best Colonel / SG team CO that anyone could have been; he was effective and competent and successful. He was so good as a Colonel that he really deserved a promotion... but on the other hand he's just not General material. I'm not sure he's happy as a General, and as has been said above he often deliberately behaves in a way that calls his competence into question. I know that it was the course of action that the writers felt best, given how tricky s7 and parts of s6 had proved with limited RDA, but even so I can't believe in General Jack like I did in Colonel O'Neill.

One thing that does make it easier though is that the Peter Principle is something I've encountered in RL and even just the fact that it has a name helps, cos it gives me a nice handy hook on which to hang my slight uneasiness about seeing Jack as the man behind the desk with the red phone.

[ForeverSg1]

Yup, stuff is dropped, and dropped stuff should stay dropped.

Does anyone else think that the Peter Principle is in evidence with Jack? (The theory that most people who get promoted a few times always end up one level above that to which they are most suited.) Jack was probably the best Colonel / SG team CO that anyone could have been; he was effective and competent and successful. He was so good as a Colonel that he really deserved a promotion... but on the other hand he's just not General material. I'm not sure he's happy as a General, and as has been said above he often deliberately behaves in a way that calls his competence into question. I know that it was the course of action that the writers felt best, given how tricky s7 and parts of s6 had proved with limited RDA, but even so I can't believe in General Jack like I did in Colonel O'Neill.

One thing that does make it easier though is that the Peter Principle is something I've encountered in RL and even just the fact that it has a name helps, cos it gives me a nice handy hook on which to hang my slight uneasiness about seeing Jack as the man behind the desk with the red phone.

I have to say I agree with you completely. I loved Jack as CO of SG-1 and he was an amazing Colonel; but I don't think he ever really felt comfortable in his position as Brig. General, which makes it very hard for me to believe he would accept a position with Homeworld Security. But that's neither here nor there now, I'm sure it was a very good plot device to keep Jack around, it's just not the way I would have wished to see Jack go out. But I guess this is a topic that should probably be discussed on another thread.

[Lightsabre]

Ummmmm....

*cough*

I thought we dropped this.

Guess not? Again, I'm sorry that you felt attacked. It wasn't as personal as it appeared.

You and Madeline dropped it. I had my say, consider it dropped.

It may be unlikely, but it's not entirely impossible.

First of all, unless someone can say, without a doubt, that there's no such thing as joint command for a military team, we can only ASSUME what the Air Force would consider acceptable. And that's still under the assumption that a science fiction show wouldn't manipulate the rules a tad (within reason, of course).

Of course they COULD. But it's a bloody big cop out if you ask me.
If you've read the entire thread, you've read the multiple posts I made about the Mitchell having no job in the team without command.
I stand by that. THAT more than anything is why I believe he will get and keep command.
As to joint command, I don't think any military actually does that, but we need to know if the US air force does.
Any current or ex air forcers help us out on this??

Again, considering this is a team comprised of military officers, aliens and civilians who battle interplanetary forms of evil on a WEEKLY basis, no matter how "realistic" Stargate SG-1 tries to be, there are gonna be quite a few aspects of the show that are simply implausible.

It's sci fi, but they try to keep the Earth stuff realistic. So if the real ari force doesn't do joint commands, it's very unlikely to see it on SG. I"m not sayingit won't happen, just that I see it as unlikely

No matter what the RL Generals say about RDA's Jack O'Neill, it's rather unlikely that a man of his... er frivolity and flippant behavior (bless him ) would get him to Brigadier General and THEN possibly Major General in less than a year and a half. Jack's a hero, no doubt about it. But if we're really looking at the RL brass and politics that would go into his promotion, it's highly unlikely. He's a favorite of the President, great. But it's still cause for question. This is a guy who said, "'I, insert name,'" as the General of the base and during a promotion ceremony. Realistically speaking, he's most likely NOT many people's first pick for the position of Base CO, let alone HOMEWORLD SECURITY.

THere is something to be said for merit. Jack has led the team that keeps saving the world.
Also, I think a lot of his manner has to do with the fact that he KNOWS he is nigh indispensible.
That and he was Black Ops. Thye tend to develop attitudes like that.
As to the promotion ceremony, as you noted it's a tv show, they added humor.

Aaaanywho... I'm not gonna rule out such a compromise for Sam and Cam, just like I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that Cam's gonna keep the command of SG-1 indefinitely. Anything is possible from here on out. We'll just have to wait and see.

I just can't see it going down like this
Avalon:"Col mitchell, pick your new SG-1"
BEach HEad:"THis is Sam Carter, she'll be in Joint command of SG-1"
Bit of a slap in the face for Mitchell , isn't it??

[IncessantBabbler]

I have to say I agree with you completely. I loved Jack as CO of SG-1 and he was an amazing Colonel; but I don't think he ever really felt comfortable in his position as Brig. General, which makes it very hard for me to believe he would accept a position with Homeworld Security. But that's neither here nor there now, I'm sure it was a very good plot device to keep Jack around, it's just not the way I would have wished to see Jack go out. But I guess this is a topic that should probably be discussed on another thread.

Jack rocked, there's no doubt about it. I've loved him on the show, and it's kinda sad to see him flying a desk with the bureaucracy now.

But the unlikeliness of Jack being promoted so many times in one yearand the unlikeliness of someone with Daniel's (original - S1 to S4) expertise being put on a FRONTLINE team, kinda lends its hand to the concept of Sam and Cam sharing command of a team that has been evolving over the course of two years.

If Cam is meant to be the leader, then I think fans will take it in stride. It may not be a QUIET stride (heh heh), but I know I'll definitely deal. I think we need to open our minds to the possibility that this compromise may happen. Other than the "it's potentially unrealistic" argument, what would be so bad about it?

[Lida]

Sorry, but there is no such thing as a joint command, within a single military agency. How many times over the past 8 years (OK, maybe 7), have you heard Jack going on and on about "chain of command"? You need one leader, who calls the shots and is ultimately responsible for his team and the mission.

As to whether Lt. Col. Mitchell or Lt. Col. Carter gets to be the team leader, is in the hands of tptb. Gee, wonder who they'll pick???? (sighs)