Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[locutes]

I generally mean, how far has Earth been united and are there still independent militaries, I for one could never ever accept (in RL) giving up our own military, sovereignty, national identity, language, etc, etc.

Since I have not been here for a while I do not know how far thngs have been altered and added as to what I remember. (I do not want to go sift through loads of pages to find this all)

[locutes]

Well it's more navy based anyway: when was the last time you heard of a air battleship.

well it is canon that the USAF has taken the space domain also and not the navy. ANd The last time I heard of an aiforce battleship was the last time the name Odyssey, Daedalus, Prometheus, Apollo etc has come up. XD

[immhotep]

I would like to know how far I can go with incorporating nations, their respective militaries. So could I do something like make the Netherlands have the Navy be the base for their space programme? Or must I stay with Airforce which I personally dislike. And could I perhaps write about a colony that has cut of ties with the IOA and such but still accepts the nation state they come from as the motherland but generally is outside of IOA/NATO and suchs reach

I think planet Earth in terms of production of and crewing of ships and the emigration to colonies would be done on a regional basis and through regional economic and political relationships. I think the best model for this would be EU, which is being emulated in a number of regions such as ASEAN, Arab League and African Union. The major powers such as China, India, Russia and USA would be able to act independently but if Europe pooled its collective military, technological and economic resources it would be able to rival the USA and China, and potentially field a very powerful force. It would also be the model by which offworld colonies should be organised, as a federal system of independant planets controlled from a central authority on Earth with systems of migration, and economic support/reward being given to the founding powers/current owners/highest national/regional contribution. I would say that a minimum of 25 planets would be needed to cover a range of political organisations as well as global offworld requirements. 3-6 each for the USA, EU, China, Russia and India, plus a dozen production, mining and R&D bases that are owned either privately(such as mining corporations) or places like Icarus base which are for specific research purposes and should just be left as neutral, as should Atlantis.

[Davidtourniquet]

At the end of the day, we are all the same species. But I couldn't see each country giving up everything, but at the same time I think we need to act as one planet, one voice to the wider universe.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Okay, boys. Calm down.

The best thing to do with the scaling is to forget it, since it's a) causing dangerous conflict, and b) unnecessary. Do not put absolute sizes in the specs; just scale everything relatively and then people can all be happy.


I prefer the idea of another Khalek (can we come up with a more appropriate name than Kheb?) that's a human with Anubis's knowledge rather than some odd brain-transfer dude. Whether he tricks Jaffa or Humans doesn't concern me.


And for those wondering when we'll start, we had agreed to start after we voted on the gunship (a la USAF parlance), which we were supposed to be doing now, but people wanted to go with the cruiser first.


'Tep; yes, we are planning to decrease the significance of fighters to the fleet. Why? Well, I argued that a few pages back. Fighters really aren't that significant to Earth's fleet.

Now, you can cite tradition from other fan-stuff, but in canon it's obvious that fighters are significant for planetary scenarios, not fleet action. We don't need to field hundreds or even dozens of fighters in space. That's just wasting manpower and resources.

So just a BC is fine. A dedicated space carrier would be a waste (sorry about the harsh terms) equal to a dedicated naval battleship.


On colonies; there are 16. They are typically joint economic ventures.

On politics; most, but not all, nations are part of the UNE(C). They act somewhat sovereignly on Earth, but all off-world activity has some degree of internationality. It is not a unified Earth in the traditional sense, but neither is it a broken alliance. It's more of a happy middle-ground.

So yes, the Dutch could be doing something as "the Dutch", but they'd probably have help or oversight, just like they'd help or oversee someone else.

[locutes]

secret bases can be a part of it all?


My idea was having a top secret base, unknown to the Goa'uld/Jaffa, Earth etc. Not even the closest allies like Germany and Belgium have access to or knowledge of its existence. With a small civilian settlement on it, not acknowledging the IO/NATO/UN to have controle of any sort on it. Really being reliant only on itsself and the motherland. Partially because of the secret base and also because the inhabitants do not want it.


I do think the EU should grow to something more in the lines of the Confederacy (without slavery), but not giving anything away to a federal government like in the US

[Davidtourniquet]

So cruiser now then?

[immhotep]

Well the Typhon is as much as dedicated Carrier as a planetary fighter supply ship. Im not saying that fighters shouldnt be decreased, because your right we cant field enough numbers to go toe to toe with dart waves but we need a carrier, and I actually think ive done a decent job on presenting a balance between those two concerns, Typhon can adapt to the need of fighters to be present in battle and lets not forget that those hangers can carry Gunships, drops ships, Cargo as well as Fighters. They are versatile and detachable, so a carrier isnt obsolete. Also We have just voted in a dedicated battleship...

I Like Kheb, it reminds people that he has stolen knowledge of the Ascended, that Anubis tricked even "real" Gods, that name reminds even Goauld that Anubis really did become a God and this guy has the knowledge to seriously test most races in the galaxy and hes gunning for the Goauld first.

I think the politics is what we will agree on most. For the record Vague is what caused these problems, but I havent got too much of an issue with vagueness.

[locutes]

does a destroyer not come before the cruiser?

At the end of the day, we are all the same species. But I couldn't see each country giving up everything, but at the same time I think we need to act as one planet, one voice to the wider universe.

as good as it might seem, not in my life time... I cannot ever agree to giving up sovereignty and such ever. Which is needed for a real united Earth for it would also mean that we would lose what makes us dutch, america, belgian, french, puerto rican, canadian etc etc.

On politics; most, but not all, nations are part of the UNE(C). They act somewhat sovereignly on Earth, but all off-world activity has some degree of internationality. It is not a unified Earth in the traditional sense, but neither is it a broken alliance. It's more of a happy middle-ground.

So yes, the Dutch could be doing something as "the Dutch", but they'd probably have help or oversight, just like they'd help or oversee someone else.

Well I can see that happening, in the official books, but do not tell me the US, China and other countries do not have hidden things, like bases planets and such.

I can obviously not do my trinity arc here, and I do not want too. BUT I can do some secret base idea on a colony rejecting the idea of being under UNE(C) scrutiny and generally wanting only Dutch rule. THough the idea is not a real colony, just a planet with a village or three four, perhaps a small city. Not more than 14,000 inhabitants.



As to the colonies of the UNE(C), what is the smalles colony, I doubt a planet with a village only would count as one.

[fugiman]

Well I was thinking that each person who wanted to could write up a little back story for Keb and we vote on which one we like the most and that fits in best with the fleet because I have been working on some ideas for this

[immhotep]

I dont think we are discounting secret bases and the like. As long as they are not major centres of population beyond Earth, small bases would become commonplace throughout the galaxy as we expanded, Earth has been setting those up since the beginning, such as the one Lt Hailey went to or the one we set up to look at the goauld homeworld, temporary bases are fine, as are exploration support in tents, or labs when we explore ruins or things we find. That is part of the operations of exploration. By colony we should be talking about major centres of human occupation, with permanent structures, housing, plumbing, power generation, defense, economic, political, legal and logistical structures and authority's offworld. A Population of a few hundred would be minimum with the permanent infrastructure to support the basic needs of those people would be a good flexible definition.

[locutes]

I dont think we are discounting secret bases and the like. As long as they are not major centres of population beyond Earth, small bases would become commonplace throughout the galaxy as we expanded, Earth has been setting those up since the beginning, such as the one Lt Hailey went to or the one we set up to look at the goauld homeworld, temporary bases are fine, as are exploration support in tents, or labs when we explore ruins or things we find. That is part of the operations of exploration. By colony we should be talking about major centres of human occupation, with permanent structures, housing, plumbing, power generation, defense, economic, political, legal and logistical structures and authority's offworld. A Population of a few hundred would be minimum with the permanent infrastructure to support the basic needs of those people would be a good flexible definition.

well I meant a secred underground base, unknown. With a few villages on it also, obviously the numbers can be lower but having a few villages with only basic infrastructure could be hidden without problems. And having 1 small planet being part of Earth's diaspora would not be a major drain. Especially if we have 16 bigger colonies.


Obviously such a community will grow, but it would not become a major colony over night.





Also, do we have access to Tok'ra crystals, or are they still a closely guarded secret?

[immhotep]

Im in favour of them being an available technology, we must have got something from the Tokra over the years and im sure we have some samples or could get some. I think they area great option and obviously very well suited to covert bases, we could also reuse old bases the Tokra no longer use, and if the goauld believe they have already moved on years ago, it shouldnt be too much trouble repairing and occupying them.

[locutes]

Im in favour of them being an available technology, we must have got something from the Tokra over the years and im sure we have some samples or could get some. I think they area great option and obviously very well suited to covert bases, we could also reuse old bases the Tokra no longer use, and if the goauld believe they have already moved on years ago, it shouldnt be too much trouble repairing and occupying them.

I agree.



I was thinking of writing an arc set on a an outpost, a small village with a major secret base, partially made by Tok'ra crystals and the other parts with conventional tech. The base has slowly been build over the past 10 years or so after disclosure to the Earth nations. A small village/settlement started after the base was finished and then.

In the time of the fleet, having political problems because of the UNE(C) tightening the rules to offoworld bases/outposts/settlement. Obviously not wanting to have the UNE(C) to got too much control there because of the base, but then some Americans come to the planet and exidentially find the base and secret stuff in it. Obviously leading to disclosure of the base, the American government is apprised of the base by those citizens (off duty marines) but the message is heavily garbled. Leading to an international nightmare and charging those marines with Espionage.


Something like that.

[Davidtourniquet]

To construct a decent sized colony in 10 years, I think we'll need to use tokra crystals.