Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[guppy338]

FRAN is still workable and doesn't require having the asgard beams. It just requires a diversion which can still be provided by the Earth ships, the travellers and the wraith

but does require us being able to beat auroras to get in the position to do that we can use it you will also have to take into account that with the replicators still a problem we would have divert all resource to beat them and that means destiny would be put on hold and the only way we could beat them without using Asgard technology is the PWARW but that would create the problem that we would have 30+ auroras and lots of ZPMs which would not happen because it would make us to uber having a ancient fleet.

also the fact is we cannot force them back to their home world we cannot use ever tactics and how do you think we are going to fight through 37 ancient battle ship not including their escorts jumpers and the drone they can fire from their surface.

That is why i have a idea when we were going to lourch Harrison we send the PWARW but as it fires obroth in a act of defiance terns the self destruct and blows it up the only thing left is a half built aurora with the hyperdrive intact it is taken back to earth and it could be the bases of the generation 4 technology what does anyone think of it

And this means that everyone could go to the destiny

[Crazy Tom]

I can answer this (albiet a little, Amann can give the full up details) Alesians are pretty much a few ancients that broke off from the maimn group to start their own group, calling themselves Alsieans after their homeworld (that they ended up taking for their own not knowing another race lived there already) Alesia. Basicaly their desire for war and conquest is what builds their warm achine and such, their soldiers are train pretty much since birth. A Alesian soldier is pretty much a Kull Warrior on steroids. (in the sense that Kull are wannabe Alesian footsoldiers)

For an idea of what an Alesian Soldier looks like, then a Ancient Roman legion of solderis, armor and all. only in this case higyhly advanced, better looking armor in sense of prettiness and shiny new. Most Alsiena soldiers live (from what I gather) to 10,000 years or more. their ships are pretty advanced, though they use the Aurora as a scout vessel that is lgihtly armed, since we saw the Wraith battle report of the Ancients sending their best ships (two Orion type ships) and both got demolished

So the Alesians have other ship types, and last I recall one shipyard type cityship.

I'd just like to point out, that at that tech level, infantry wold be only a part of their total war machine. Likely, infantry would not even exist, replaced by micro and nanotech foglets, supported by a host of microtech fighters and using macrotech umanned war machines for the big stuff.

Replacing equipment is cheaper that making up for casualties, especially if these soldiers are so heavily trained.

Sublight engine speeds/efficiency? I'm not sure if it is worthwhile but nuclear thermal thrusters might be an interesting alternative to ion drives in that they could provide greater thrust for a short period.

Indeed, though in this case I think it would also just require people to think a bit more carefully about ship hull design as in modifying the profile to present a smaller target on optimum attack vectors, shaping to mitigate kinetic damage, or more creative countermeasures. Armour is just a small part of the equation.


In terms of other technology that can be incorporated, I was watching a documentary recently on chemical lasers. I see the US airforce has supposedly successfully used one to shoot down a missile in a test conducted this year. The laser in question was chemical based, firing in the infrared spectrum with a range of about 150km. I guess that would make it a pretty decent alternative for a CIWS and should be viable as standard earth tech that could be deployed by 2025.

I couldn't agree more, the overall shape of a ship is arguably more important that it's specifications.

A tech list is in my opinion a waste. In real life, weapons, power plants and defenses are designed specifically for one ship, to help it fulfill it's tactical and strategic purpose. There may be some standardization of minor components, but overall the big systems have to be tailored to each ship class.

SG tech allows us to use more powerful lasers through, like free electron lasers, which have better flexibility in terms of the light emitted, and are easier to maintain and more powerful. I would not rule out lasers as useless, they have much higher range than kinetic CIWS, giving them far more time to engage and destroy. A turret or two per ship would not be amiss.

Now, as to manufacturing Asgard systems. Currently, I'm of the opinion they were provided to us by the Asgard, however, given the enormous tactical advantages they give us, their reproduction would be top priority, which is not outside the real of possibility with Goa'uld nanotech fabrication. They may not be entirely up to speck, but we would at least be able to replicate the technology in a few years.

As to the Ashaen, given their level of technological advancement, the idea that they cannot feed themselves without taking over other planets is preposterous. They could easily build huge space born aeroponic farms, and vat grown meats. The whole farming thing is just a way of exploiting a conquered planet. Their drive to expand seems not to be economic or population drive, since they haven't settled any of their farm planets. Rather it's seem to be a way of squashing any competition they might have.

[thekillman]

A tech list is in my opinion a waste. In real life, weapons, power plants and defenses are designed specifically for one ship, to help it fulfill it's tactical and strategic purpose. There may be some standardization of minor components, but overall the big systems have to be tailored to each ship class.

why the hell do you think i specifically added "generations" of technology. nuclear powerplants, well there are many forms and designs, but the current nuclear powerplants are generation 3 or 4. there are general design and technology features that stand out. a Gen 2 shield would be a radically different design from the Gen 1, and the generations of tech stand for the technology as a whole, not just the specific shields on a specific ship

they have much higher range than kinetic CIWS, giving them far more time to engage and destroy. A turret or two per ship would not be amiss.

CIWS=CLOSE in weapons system. missiles will kill missiles first. CIWS is only for when everything else fails

Now, as to manufacturing Asgard systems. Currently, I'm of the opinion they were provided to us by the Asgard, however, given the enormous tactical advantages they give us, their reproduction would be top priority, which is not outside the real of possibility with Goa'uld nanotech fabrication. They may not be entirely up to speck, but we would at least be able to replicate the technology in a few years.

again i refer to my tech list which shows clearly that though the shields are made by us, they are the culmination of goauld, human, asgard and ancient hyperdrive knowledge, specifically the part that we actually understand. i think it's better if we actually find out WHY the shields work the way they do, instead of stupid copying, as the LA is clearly just as capable of stealing our tech as we stole the goauld's. leading me to believe they are from earth-like worlds which kept themselves silent

As to the Ashaen, given their level of technological advancement, the idea that they cannot feed themselves without taking over other planets is preposterous. They could easily build huge space born aeroponic farms, and vat grown meats. The whole farming thing is just a way of exploiting a conquered planet. Their drive to expand seems not to be economic or population drive, since they haven't settled any of their farm planets. Rather it's seem to be a way of squashing any competition they might have.

we don't know the state of their homeworld, but we can deduct a few things, primarily that a lot of people live there, and they need several farm worlds to sustain it. also these farmworlds are more like regular farms, which is a good thing since the ecosystem will **** up if they impact it TOO much.

lastly, they have all the power to take planets convenient for farming. they ally someone, steal all their tech while sharing their own, and then they induce amnesia and sterility and basically kill their civilization after they got all they wanted.

[Amann]

I'd just like to point out, that at that tech level, infantry wold be only a part of their total war machine. Likely, infantry would not even exist, replaced by micro and nanotech foglets, supported by a host of microtech fighters and using macrotech umanned war machines for the big stuff.

Replacing equipment is cheaper that making up for casualties, especially if these soldiers are so heavily trained.

Ahhhh, but the Alesians know that nanotechnology is a rather inefficient way to make war. Nanobots can be easily neutralized with electrical fields or disrupter waves. Even EMP pulses would stop a nanocloud. Not to mention that it would have trouble powering itself, replicating itself. Does it do perfect replication? If not, does it evolve? (which btw is VERY dangerous. See the novel Prey.) How would it counter such obvious countermeasures? How cost efficient is it really? when a macroshell slug or missile or nuke or another weapon of war is MUCH cheaper to produce and does probably the same damage.

Although war driods like in star wars have practical applications, but we see those droids would either be low end, fragile droids, or high end expensive droids that would be more costly than training an Alesian Legionnaire. Plus machines can't think as intelligently or have the same intuitive capability unless the Alesians want to make human form replicators, which would be highly foolish to do. Dangerous as it has proven for other races to attempt.

And the Alesians would never trust their forces to machines most of the time. They went as far as they were willing to go with NABIS, a strategic AI network on board their ships. They don't trust factories or machines to provide war capabilities. If needed, they can disable their AI networks although NABIS has never rebelled.

EDIT: Although I must point out that Alesian soldiers are NOT trained from birth, but its a full volunteer army that trains it's soldiers for 10 years. They do not train soldiers from the crib.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

As to the tech list, Tom, we've mentioned a few times that it's just there as a general guideline. People can tweak it as necessary.

For the Aschen, I think their expansion has the most in common with European colonialism in the 1500's. It's not so much that they need the land, they just want it. And it's a way of "exporting" menial-labor jobs to conquered peoples rather than having the Aschen themselves do them.

One thing about your overview, 'killman. It seems to me that the whole point of the Hyperspace Catapult system is that it isn't ship-board, so to have a ship with an "internal" catapult doesn't make much sense (indeed, it sounds as logical as "pulling yourself up by your own boot-straps"). What if you just say that no Aschen ships have hyperdrives, but one ship in each flotilla tows a single-use micro-catapult.

That way, the Aschen have a network of Hyperspace Catapults throughout the Confederacy, but if they jump outside the network they bring a micro-catapult (micro meaning smaller than normal; it could still be quite large). Then they do whatever they need to, and after the micro-catapult launches them back into the Confederacy network it overloads and is destroyed by the resulting explosion. That way they don't leave any technology behind for others to find.


This also raises an interesting design point for Aschen ships; they couldn't be bigger than the maximum hyperspace window that the micro-catapult could open.

[thekillman]

One thing about your overview, 'killman. It seems to me that the whole point of the Hyperspace Catapult system is that it isn't ship-board, so to have a ship with an "internal" catapult doesn't make much sense (indeed, it sounds as logical as "pulling yourself up by your own boot-straps"). What if you just say that no Aschen ships have hyperdrives, but one ship in each flotilla tows a single-use micro-catapult.

imagine it like a boat.

normally the boat moves slowly. the Catapult gives the boat a big push, and though the boat eventually slows down to it's original speed, it will have traversed an immense distance.

mobile catapults are more like moving space stations. they can catapult a fleet, but they can also use the onboard catapult hyperdrives to move the station itself.


it's like using an engine to push someone forward, and switching to use the engine to push yourself forward.

This also raises an interesting design point for Aschen ships; they couldn't be bigger than the maximum hyperspace window that the micro-catapult could open.

i did plan for midsized/small ships. the smallest being some 30 meters, the biggest a meter or 500. catapults being ha'tak sized.

[lord groovy]

imagine it like a boat.

normally the boat moves slowly. the Catapult gives the boat a big push, and though the boat eventually slows down to it's original speed, it will have traversed an immense distance.

mobile catapults are more like moving space stations. they can catapult a fleet, but they can also use the onboard catapult hyperdrives to move the station itself.


it's like using an engine to push someone forward, and switching to use the engine to push yourself forward.




i did plan for midsized/small ships. the smallest being some 30 meters, the biggest a meter or 500. catapults being ha'tak sized.

I've never heard of a boat able to catapult other boats... Maybe you meant 'towing' i.e a ship able to open a hyperspace window big enough to pull nearby ships with it inside?

And back to my question abou the sensors : have you realized that 1200 ly = the width of the MW = 1/100 of the diameter of the galaxy? and that following Carter theory, without a dhd (like the Aschen and Vollian gates) you could dial any planet in a 300 ly radius?

Since they know how the dialing works, they would have no problem conquering the galaxy by foot : calculate the adress based on the position of a planet, try it out, go peaceful or go bioweapon, move a sensor device to that planet and try again...

I think, you should downsize a little. Somewhere under 500 ly. Maybe even under 100 ly. And forget also about the 10 000 ly sensors around their 3 homeworlds. Unless you want to ressuscitate the Asurans...

[thekillman]

Since they know how the dialing works, they would have no problem conquering the galaxy by foot : calculate the adress based on the position of a planet, try it out, go peaceful or go bioweapon, move a sensor device to that planet and try again...

except that they can't actually scan planets for lifeforms or anything. you do realise that something like a ship is a flare in the darkness compared to the rest of the stuff out there ?

I think, you should downsize a little. Somewhere under 500 ly. Maybe even under 100 ly. And forget also about the 10 000 ly sensors around their 3 homeworlds. Unless you want to ressuscitate the Asurans...

hyperspace sensor range: 500 LYs
deepspace sensor range: 360 Ly's

[lord groovy]

except that they can't actually scan planets for lifeforms or anything. you do realise that something like a ship is a flare in the darkness compared to the rest of the stuff out there ?

Well I was expecting them to go look for sufficiently advanced planet (more than 1900s Earth) that would already have electricity and radiocommunication and could be spot from afar. This is why I wanted to know what sensors are supposed to detect in stargate.

Due to the speed light limit, it's obviously not lightwave so?

Unless they can open tiny hyperspace windows to scan precise regions of space, but well that would only work for active sensors.

hyperspace sensor range: 500 LYs
deepspace sensor range: 360 Ly's

Thank you.
Can they be implemented on ships or did they need a bigger infrastructure?

[thekillman]

Thank you.
Can they be implemented on ships or did they need a bigger infrastructure?

big ships

Unless they can open tiny hyperspace windows to scan precise regions of space, but well that would only work for active sensors.

sensors are always active in stargate.

also, they can detect certain things, we dpn't know what precisely, seems to be an energy signature, probably the radiation naquahdah releases upon fission

[Davidtourniquet]

Surely they are subspace sensors, not hyperspace sensors.

[thekillman]

......

eh

does it really differ? hyperspace is a tunnel through subspace and thus detectable. although distance and natural phenomena matter as well. although hyperspace would be relatively easily detected within subspace, you're basically seeing a bullet trail

[puddlejumperOZ]

Er you guys have been busy, what did I miss since Friday? I tried to read everything, but all I've got so far, is no beam weapons or at least less capable ones and no beaming technology. But what about the ships already fitted with it. Are we meaning for the Jotnar to take everything? I go the impression from the show, that the Asgard only uipgraded one ship and the SGC did the others on their own. A simple list of just what weapons a 304 does and can have would be handy.

And on the Phalanx system (CIWS) in space, it would be very handy for defence against fighters as well.

[guppy338]

well pj form what i undersand of them talking about no asgard stuff and we have moved on to hyperspace catpults

[puddlejumperOZ]

Nooooooooooooo
We gotta have some Asgard thingys, it's not Stargate without at least some of their trinkets
Dang my ships have got all the latest doohickeys, what will I use for my Asgard Beam toilets??????