Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[locutes]

and that sinister race is the main enemy while we also have LOADS of other threats to look out for, right Ray

[blackluster]

it had already been established that the LA would not be powerful, they will be more like a bunch of pirates

Really? Given the current SGU storyline, the LA have been owning Earth and all their fancy Asgard tech rather handily...

[locutes]

well we had been duscussing it already, somewhat

[lord groovy]

The LA though piratical in tactics should still be a formible enemy, they would have gathered a lot of Goa'uld tech and people sympathetic to their goals, they should'nt be written out entirely. But I agree, a newer more sinister enemy should emerge. A race say, like the Wraith who had been awaken by us, could be discovered as we push further into the galaxy.

Well when I saw your story about Goa'uld/Ori/prior I thought : 'hey what happened to the ascended Oris after Daniel launched the Sangreal in the supergate?"

In the original show, they were supposed to be dead, but maybe Morgane or Merlin tuned it down just to return them to their human forms. They would be gradually losing their vast knowledge and their superpowers but still keep enough to rebuild some basic tech. At least for a short time...

BTW how long did it take Orlin to turn ...errr...damaged?

And during those 15 years since the end of s10, they have been thinking about their vengeance against the Ancients and the Tau'ri. And they came to the MW to steal leftovers of Ancient technology and disturb the peace of the glaxy. and also find a way to reverse their condition...

I thought that it would be cool to be able to fight for once the actual Ori and not their pale Priors or their babe Orici and have a race that possess the ATA gene too. And because of the Sangreal aftereffects, they don't even need to be uber since they even lost all their superpowers and retain only a vague memory of their ascended life (like Daniel Jackson when he returned).

They are just more cunning and really good at manipulating people like we wanted.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

If you want a manipulative race, how about my Shrin'Yar? We never really got into them in 3.0, so we could easily shift them here. We could even have them be the Grace aliens, like I originally intended.

(I know, it's shameful, plugging my own race . . . but I have to try. )

[puddlejumperOZ]

i will help you if you want

I'd appreciate that. PM me with any concepts you have

i think SGU's LA is much better actually

In which way KM, I haven't seen much, except the 1st 3 episodes.

and that sinister race is the main enemy while we also have LOADS of other threats to look out for, right Ray

There probably should be one main contaginist, with a few small adversaries as well.

Well when I saw your story about Goa'uld/Ori/prior I thought : 'hey what happened to the ascended Oris after Daniel launched the Sangreal in the supergate?"

I took the idea from my project story. When Adria knew what the SGC were up to, she was able to give the Ori the heads up re: The Ark, some few Ori were able to combine their powers and re-take human form. They then fled to the MW before the Ark was used and then took control of a few minor Goa'uld and had the symbiotes emplated into Priors EVIL PLAN

If you want a manipulative race, how about my Shrin'Yar? We never really got into them in 3.0, so we could easily shift them here. We could even have them be the Grace aliens, like I originally intended.

(I know, it's shameful, plugging my own race . . . but I have to try. )

That sounds cool Mcoy

[lord groovy]

I took the idea from my project story. When Adria knew what the SGC were up to, she was able to give the Ori the heads up re: The Ark, some few Ori were able to combine their powers and re-take human form. They then fled to the MW before the Ark was used and then took control of a few minor Goa'uld and had the symbiotes emplated into Priors EVIL PLAN

but retaking human forms would mean losing their superpowers while implanting symbiotes into Priors is giving Goa'ulds actual godly powers.

That's a bold move! Xanatos-Gambit level!

[thekillman]

i don't like the ori. also we never really relied on asgard tech. IMO the writers' thoughts were like those

"hey lets give humanity all asgard tech"
"yea good, and some beam weapons. beams are nice"
"well a few shots kill an ori ship"
"sounds good."


then BAMSR:

"how about using those beam thingies. should blow up the aurora's"
"yea but aurora's are 10 000 year old ships designs, ori are better"
"good, how about instant penetration of the shields?"
"fine"

then
"how about we have the deadalus blow up a hive with it's beams"
"yea but a hive is inferior to an aurora"
"so 3 shots blow it?"
"fine with that"


then

"we have the deadalus fight a cruiser"
"yea but... wouldn't the beams be insta-kill? doesn't make for a good fighting scene."
"how about... we loose the beam weapons"
"yea, theys should disable fast"

and now they are crapshoot.
\


stargate is about how humanity handles itself in a crisis bigger than itself. poorly equipped and understaffed we use the best and most brilliant to learn and adapt. we fight and we defeat through quick thinking, resilliance, courage and luck. we're not afraid to ally our enemies to fight a greater evil. we do what it takes for good to prevail without becoming evil.


that's stargate. not "get the best most badass tech and blow our way through enemy armadas"

even SGA initially was about how we abused ancient tech to work beyond it's original function and do stuff which it isn't designed for. like how Carter turned a reactor to a bomb.



i would like to keep our noses in the future and in the direction of the future because, simply, Details is what killed 3.0 IMO. details about everything, the workings, etc. physics to explain phenomena that can't exist. we either adapt physics (i have an idea for physics addition) or we keep it general.
\

trying to create a realistic fleet while keeping SG canon is nigh-impossible if we go explain everything. we should just say "it happened" and not go into detail. that's the reason Buba chose future. (i think)


as for godly goauld: NO FRIKKING WAY.


as for LA: SGU's LA is much better because:

-they are not utterly incompetent and cliche
-they actually USE goauld tech PROPERLY.
-they aren't stupid.
-even a mere commander has more intellect than the previous LA combined.
-did i mention the fact that they screwed our asgard tech 10x over by blowing up the APBW's first in the ambush, forcing us to use conventional, ubersucking weapons, they have beam jamming technology, rendering our second most powerful weapon useless, and then they escaped, evading all our sensors.

that's more intelligent than what the disgrace in SG1 did.

If you want a manipulative race, how about my Shrin'Yar? We never really got into them in 3.0, so we could easily shift them here. We could even have them be the Grace aliens, like I originally intended.

(I know, it's shameful, plugging my own race . . . but I have to try. )

i'm not sure about extragalactic species.....


yes we can if we change a few things:

-they come from one of the sattelite galaxies of the MW. reason they never visited is because of the gargantuan armada the goauld have, and their completely amoral warfare. any visit would've gotten the response by gate nuke. then a massive armada in orbit. nope, the Shrin'yar though it's best to keep their heads down and wait. then earth came along, screwed things up. well, their original invasion plan was fcked so they decided to re-plan, wait for the political damage to be done. if stuff is calm, people are finally happy, and screwing things then would have a bigger emotional impact.

so now they've sent some advance scouts. the Foothold Aliens were from their galaxies, tried to take over earth but failed miserably. the Shrin'yar scouts possess all technology and equipment for scouting, spying and infiltrating.

their agents use stolen Mimic technology, allowing them to take any form. they've recently begun infiltration and they've started to steer the factions to collision. all that's left afterwards is taking on the victor and defeating the defeated, and they got the galaxy full of resources and advanced technology.


i remember the Shrin Yar (can we loose the apostrope? it's annoying and cliche) being feline? can we stop intelligent gerbils? i think a better description is: "if a human saw them, they'd say they were cats"

i mean, if i see a blue human i think either Smurf or Na'vi. doesn't mean they are, but it's how people relate to them. i'm not sure about a religion or fanatic religious belief. how about

"they exhausted major naquahdah and neutronium deposits and are left with an unsustainable empire. fortunately Staticians have predicted that a war with the Milky Way would pay itself back thousandfold. "

considering the size and metallicity of the MW, it's the best target in the Local Group. there's Andromeda, yes, and other galaxies might have deposits, but we're talking a galaxy where such stuff is found in huge veins, not as a trace element.

[Davidtourniquet]

So then how are we going to press forward, one person to be assigned each task, or a collaboration of say two for each?

Well what I've done so far is estimate the total number of units available to the entire fleet (so Earth + the colonies) and estimate shield strengths and energy of the weapons. With the shield strengths, I've given the power of the shield (in Watts) and the total energy available in a typical 15 minute battle. So that gives the defense against energy weapons and missiles.
Killman, on the 2.6 cents per KWh. Bear in mind that the cost for advanced nuclear power is around 7 cents per KWh. I do think it will depend on the colony as some will have a lot of naquadah and trinium and some others won't have any, so that will affect the cost. On that, I think naquadah will be more than Nuclear so at least 10 cents per KWh.
In fact, if I could be so bold and suggest that the colonies have some sort of trading market between each other, so that this can help colonies fund their own ship building.
Also, do we use an ICBM or Trident for our nuclear missile capabilities. Trident is a submarine based vertical launched missile used by the UK and the USA. Trident missiles are £17 million a piece, while ICBMs are $50 million a piece.

[blackluster]

as for LA: SGU's LA is much better because:

-they are not utterly incompetent and cliche
-they actually USE goauld tech PROPERLY.
-they aren't stupid.
-even a mere commander has more intellect than the previous LA combined.
-did i mention the fact that they screwed our asgard tech 10x over by blowing up the APBW's first in the ambush, forcing us to use conventional, ubersucking weapons, they have beam jamming technology, rendering our second most powerful weapon useless, and then they escaped, evading all our sensors.

that's more intelligent than what the disgrace in SG1 did.

Indeed, the fact that they are currently able to operate a rather sophisticated counter-intelligence campaign against Earth shows a level of coordination, organization and resourcefulness that could probably let them exceed the threat level the system lords posed. The fact that they now have countermeasures for some of the more significant Asgard tech Earth uses is also highly significant.

[thekillman]

Also, do we use an ICBM or Trident for our nuclear missile capabilities. Trident is a submarine based vertical launched missile used by the UK and the USA. Trident missiles are £17 million a piece, while ICBMs are $50 million a piece.

well they do not need to fly that far in space. they dont need to fight gravity. so i think tridents are fine although i believe the used missiles to be custom.


and it was 3 cents per ten thousand kilowatthours. however that's just using the costs, ignoring things like manufacturing and maintaining. i think that a naquahdah generator is pretty expensive because, again i doubt you could make a mini powerplant using iron and carbon only.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

yes we can if we change a few things:

-they come from one of the sattelite galaxies of the MW.

Done. I picked the Phoenix Dwarf Galaxy. (Technically not a "satellite" in the strictest sense, but assuming Destiny went through Pegasus it could have made a stop through Phoenix first.)

reason they never visited is because of the gargantuan armada the goauld have, and their completely amoral warfare. any visit would've gotten the response by gate nuke. then a massive armada in orbit. nope, the Shrin'yar though it's best to keep their heads down and wait.

And they were at war in their home galaxy. But yeah, the Shrin'yar like things to destabilize first. A push here, a shove there. But not huge fleets for scare-tactics.

then earth came along, screwed things up. well, their original invasion plan was fcked so they decided to re-plan, wait for the political damage to be done. if stuff is calm, people are finally happy, and screwing things then would have a bigger emotional impact.

Yep.

so now they've sent some advance scouts. the Foothold Aliens were from their galaxies, tried to take over earth but failed miserably. the Shrin'yar scouts possess all technology and equipment for scouting, spying and infiltrating. their agents use stolen Mimic technology, allowing them to take any form.

The aliens from Foothold were (in my original idea) at war with the Shrin'yar, and they were losing. They tried to take over Earth to escape. The Shrin'yar have similar mimic technology that they reverse-engineered during the war, but theirs is less organic-looking. It's also not destabilized by harmonic resonance.

Shrin'yar technology (again, moving away from 3.0 and back to my original idea) is not as powerful as Goa'uld in the shielding and plasma-weaponry areas, but they use missiles and have phase-cloaks similar to the Sodan's. They're more stealthy than overwhelming.

Oh, and the ship in Grace was a Shrin'yar warship; it was a scout. It tried to destroy Prometheus in order to keep its cover. (I had to change a lot of the above in 3.0, but I can use it now.)

they've recently begun infiltration and they've started to steer the factions to collision.

Well, some of it's recent, but they have been planing for a while, so there might be some surprises lying around.

all that's left afterwards is taking on the victor and defeating the defeated, and they got the galaxy full of resources and advanced technology.

Yep.

i remember the Shrin Yar (can we loose the apostrope? it's annoying and cliche) being feline? can we stop intelligent gerbils? i think a better description is: "if a human saw them, they'd say they were cats"

I would never use an apostrophe just to make a word look "alien"; it's a transcription aid for delineating morphemes in the language. A better solution is to not capitalize the y, if that helps to clear any confusion.

As to the felenoid thing, I'm afraid I was misunderstood. What you suggested was what I meant. Just like calling the Na'vi "humanoid" doesn't mean they're genetically related to us in any way, calling the Shrin'yar "felenoid" does not mean they're genetically related to felines in any way. They just have features that look feline to a human. (The Shrin'yar would never refer to themselves as felenoid!)

i mean, if i see a blue human i think either Smurf or Na'vi. doesn't mean they are, but it's how people relate to them. i'm not sure about a religion or fanatic religious belief. how about

"they exhausted major naquahdah and neutronium deposits and are left with an unsustainable empire. fortunately Staticians have predicted that a war with the Milky Way would pay itself back thousandfold. "

In my opinion, the idea of draining a galaxy of naquadah and neutronium in any sort of reasonable time-frame is ridiculous, so I don't really like that. My plan is that their galaxy -- being irregular -- has few inhabitable worlds (no Altera to terraform planets for Stargates), so they have colonial interests because their war with the Foothold aliens rendered several planets uninhabitable, and they want more room. Oh, and the Shrin'yar aren't (as a whole) very religious.

considering the size and metallicity of the MW, it's the best target in the Local Group. there's Andromeda, yes, and other galaxies might have deposits, but we're talking a galaxy where such stuff is found in huge veins, not as a trace element.

And the Milky Way Galaxy is closer to Phoenix than Andromeda is.

[Princess Awinita]

Here is something I've been thinknig about, weapons, and technology level for those weapons.

For example, swords and the like, shields and such on some planets arem ade of metal or wood with a handhold. Swords are steel yes but what of lightsaber like technology? (for an idea of what I mean i have a story titled Random Fun Stuffs and the Atlantis team made lightsabers that actually worked) But give them a nerw name like Warp Blades or the like?

[thekillman]

I would never use an apostrophe just to make a word look "alien"; it's a transcription aid for delineating morphemes in the language. A better solution is to not capitalize the y, if that helps to clear any confusion.

oh wait, yea you made an entire language for them!

As to the felenoid thing, I'm afraid I was misunderstood. What you suggested was what I meant. Just like calling the Na'vi "humanoid" doesn't mean they're genetically related to us in any way, calling the Shrin'yar "felenoid" does not mean they're genetically related to felines in any way. They just have features that look feline to a human. (The Shrin'yar would never refer to themselves as felenoid!)

gotta love clarity

In my opinion, the idea of draining a galaxy of naquadah and neutronium is ridiculous, so I don't really like that. My plan is that their galaxy -- being irregular -- has few inhabitable worlds (no Altera to terraform planets for Stargates), so they have colonial interests because their war with the Foothold aliens rendered several planets uninhabitable, and they want more room. Oh, and the Shrin'yar aren't (as a whole) very religious.

well compared to the MW, satellite galaxies have very low metallicity. atoms bigger than helium atoms. naquahdah in our massive galaxy "grows" in humongous veins. it's possible their galaxy wasn't so lucky and they have naquahdah present as practically a trace element. EG, to produce a brick of naquahdah they need to filter several thousand tonnes of sand. kinda like how gold is currently produced on earth. if you'd steal a tonne of gold ore, you'd be only a few dozen bucks richer.

For example, swords and the like, shields and such on some planets arem ade of metal or wood with a handhold. Swords are steel yes but what of lightsaber like technology? (for an idea of what I mean i have a story titled Random Fun Stuffs and the Atlantis team made lightsabers that actually worked) But give them a nerw name like Warp Blades or the like?

the probablility of something from starwars being scientifically possible is 1 to 100. a lightsaber is idiotic and merely for cool factor.

however i can imagine the fun i can have, when i have a Japanese craftsman using modern technology to make trinium katana's (the japanese katanas were much better than the crap the medieval knights used)

however such technology is WAY out of league for any medieval world. took a ton of trouble to properly process iron, let alone something 100x better. with such strengths the melting temperature would be way too high.

still, it would be wonderful to cut someone's blade in half with your own. it might be too light though to pack a punch. so a trinium/naquahdah alloy one with 10% of steel's weight would do miracles. packs a blow, can take immense stresses.

pure trinium armor for knight-like armor would be awesome however. the only reason armor was rendered obsolete were the costs (and well, much later AP rounds).

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

oh wait, yea you made an entire language for them!

Yep. There's a lot of stuff about it on the wiki, if I recall correctly.

well compared to the MW, satellite galaxies have very low metallicity. atoms bigger than helium atoms. naquahdah in our massive galaxy "grows" in humongous veins. it's possible their galaxy wasn't so lucky and they have naquahdah present as practically a trace element. EG, to produce a brick of naquahdah they need to filter several thousand tonnes of sand. kinda like how gold is currently produced on earth. if you'd steal a tonne of gold ore, you'd be only a few dozen bucks richer.

That is true, but make trinium the rare element. Naquadah is too vital to hyperdrive technology. This doesn't really conflict with my colonial motives, so I suppose we can say it's a bit of both.