Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Princess Awinita]

Well Killman it's good to see you are still around.

So did the fleet ever go anywhere? or are you guys still a little stuck?

Good to see you fugiman, glad to see you return....

If it did go anywhere, I think it got a little lost. You know most ment, when they get lost, they refuse to ask for directions. Just like my brother.

Just saying

[thekillman]

Well Killman it's good to see you are still around.

So did the fleet ever go anywhere? or are you guys still a little stuck?

its practically dead for a couple of months now.

I still exercise worldbuilding of stargate on a weekly basis, but mostly to pass the time when i'm in the bus and stuff.

[Gormagon]

Hello peeps, I am going to be more active on the forums now that I am attempting to wright a series of SGA novels.

[Gormagon]

Questions regarding more details of kiron theory

Now, I am in the process of writing a series of SGA novels. In any and all SG novels I write I will be using kiron theory as a basis for many of the advanced technologies and sciences. Perhaps not getting into dynamic detail about the exact way in which we theorize that E5 interactions might work, more in passing mention in conversations or thought paragraphs, for example .....but something is interfering with the kiron flow. However I would enjoy having a full understanding myself, so I was wondering if anyone had anything to add or comment about regarding kiron theory.
Here are links to two articles for anyone not familiar with this theory- http://gwvf.wikia.com/wiki/Kiron_Theory http://www.nationstates.net/nation=s...ctbook/id=3075

Kiron theory in regard to the fission and/or enrichment of exotic elements.

As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.

Now killman, a rough idea forming inside my head, maclarium atoms sucked into a lattice built of another exotic element, say naquadah. As we know there are many types and grades of naquadah, so perhaps this would not only produce energy but upgrade the naquadah/enrich the naquadah, making the naquadah more potent. Once the first stage process of the reactor is complete, the enriched naquadah may be removed and utilized in a higher output reactor. A breeder reactor for exotic elements.

[thekillman]

Questions regarding more details of kiron theory

Now, I am in the process of writing a series of SGA novels. In any and all SG novels I write I will be using kiron theory as a basis for many of the advanced technologies and sciences. Perhaps not getting into dynamic detail about the exact way in which we theorize that E5 interactions might work, more in passing mention in conversations or thought paragraphs

I think that kiron theory as i wrote it back then is not even sufficient to deal with Stargate physics. It barely fits for a handful of applications and the stargate universe is just too inconsistent with physics to draw any hard rules.

However, if you want to understand it, all you truly need are the basics. After all, if Kironics is a real field, then engineers and physicists would neither bother to explain it to the uninformed nor discuss it on a casual basics. It would be too complex. Whenever i read about quantum physics (like, something that actually explains it in stead of just showing the weirdnesses) i get a big headache. That's me, a fairly intelligent and informed person about the basics of complex mind-boggling science. Mckay in reality would not even bother to tell the dumbed down version because it would be horribly inaccurate and people would misinterpret it.


In general, it's seated upon the Kiron Field.

The Kiron Field is a field like electromagnetism, but only attracts, and by my best guesses would be about on the same field strength as the Strong Force.

The Kiron is the mediating particle of the kiron field (duh). it's an energy particle that would move at about the speed of light.

The Kiron interacts with an unknown particle (or multiple particles) that sit in the core of the exotic materials. similar or different particles form shields. Stargate apparently has quite a few exotic forms of radiation and any of them could be related to shield.

Weapons serve to disrupt this quasi-matter of E5 particles.

Hyperdrives i think have nothing to do with Kirons. I believe they're wormholes through subspace. However, in stead of the traditional near-instant wormhole traversing, hyperspace still has a massive distance. Stargates simply use a different form of wormhole (like the Wormholedrive) that IS near-instant. More advanced hyperdrives are capable of contracting the "subspace wormhole" (AKA hyperspace) more and thus reduce the distance they travel, rather than making the ship faster.


Cloaks are IMHO just shields, but they're made like metamaterials so the surface structure of the shield bends all sorts of radiation around the shield.

Beaming is something you should never attempt to explain because whatever direction you pick, your science will collapse.

Depending on what you want to do with inertial dampeners, i'd go with the non-traditional explanation. Quite simply, there's 2 interpretations of inertia. One is that mass resists a change in speed. The other is that an acceleration spreads through an object like a wave. An ID would simply be something like a kiron field making a ship act like a single object, spreading out the change of speed equally across everyone..

[Gormagon]

Hey by the way what do you think of this theory I was playing with in my head-
...Maclarium atoms are allowed to interact with a sheet of naquadah, (perhaps directed at it with a low power accelerator?) the interaction leads to the exotic particles of maclarium being stripped away by the stronger E5 field of the naquadah atoms, causing a type of exotic fusion, releasing energy as a by product.
(The maclarium is now a non exotic element and thereby it will decay into smaller and smaller elements, meaning this process does produce radioactive material.)

Continuing, the naquadah is now in possession of a higher amount of E5 particles then before, (I.E more mass in the form of E5 particles = more energy from general fission?) allowing it to be a more potent source of E5 particles once split, making this enriched naquadah a better source of energy for exotic technologies then standard naquadah.

Possible exotic radiation side effects? Ionization from disrupted electron orbits?

Do you think this is a viable process to create enriched naquadah?

[thekillman]

i doubt it. The Exotic particles are what keeps the atom together and they'd be thoroughly locked in the atom.

[Gormagon]

i doubt it. The Exotic particles are what keeps the atom together and they'd be thoroughly locked in the atom.

I know, that is where the theorized much stronger E5 field of the naquadah comes in, to rip the E5 particles of the maclarium away, a process that would if it is as you say the E5 are locked strongly in the atom, produce a great deal of radiation. (I'm having another theory form inside my head btw) Both this and their combining with the naquadah atom would produce energy, a three fold energy production process, E5 split from maclarium, E5 fused into naquadah, and the enriched naquadah later used as a power source itself.

We know humans managed to make a small amount of maclarium, this tells me it is likely to be much lower on the periodic table then naqaudah, meaning the strength of the naquadah's E5 field would be greater.

We know there is some way to split E5 materials, so what about a way to destabilize the maclarium before it reached the naquadah? Therefore disrupting its bonds enough to release the E5 that can join with the naquadah.

Work with me here man is what I am saying plausible at least? I'm not officially educated in these matters.

[thekillman]

I know, that is where the theorized much stronger E5 field of the naquadah comes in, to rip the E5 particles of the maclarium away, a process that would if it is as you say the E5 are locked strongly in the atom, produce a great deal of radiation. (I'm having another theory form inside my head btw) Both this and their combining with the naquadah atom would produce energy, a three fold energy production process, E5 split from maclarium, E5 fused into naquadah, and the enriched naquadah later used as a power source itself.

We know humans managed to make a small amount of maclarium, this tells me it is likely to be much lower on the periodic table then naqaudah, meaning the strength of the naquadah's E5 field would be greater.

We know there is some way to split E5 materials, so what about a way to destabilize the maclarium before it reached the naquadah? Therefore disrupting its bonds enough to release the E5 that can join with the naquadah.

Work with me here man is what I am saying plausible at least? I'm not officially educated in these matters.

The problem is that the E5 particles would have such a set of properties that they can react both with the strong force AND the kiron force. The Strong force is -as you would guess- super-strong. The reason large atoms fall apart is because the Strong Force is mediated by a particle with mass. An instable, heavy particle. Atoms would be able to get much bigger if this force was -like EM- not limited by time. At really big atom sizes, the uncertainty in a particle's position (neutron/proton) is enough to make the particle momentarily appear outside the atom. During this moment it's free of the Strong force. This is why big atoms are so unstable.

For Kironics to work, it would have to have two particles. A mediator (the Kiron) and a mediated particle (E5). The E5 particle interacts both with Kiron Force and the Strong Force. So, while E5 and protons and neutrons create a "halo" around the nucleus where those particles can appear, the combination of the Kiron Force and the Strong Force keeps them anchored. The glue effect of the atom is simply much bigger.


How exactly those E5 particles sit in the core, i don't know. The E5 particle might even whiz around the nucleus and form an electron-like layer just around the core. Or they might be lodged into the core. I can't even explain why there are no Kiron versions of regular materials. Kironic iron would be invaluable. Maybe the E5 particle is something that emerges from a great energy density and it can not exist on it's own (meaning it pops in and out of existence).

I don't quite see how you could create a maclarium-naquahdah process that generates energy all the time. The problem is that nuclear energy is essentially a negative energy (like Gravity). A stable atom has a really low ground state. Instable atoms have too much energy that wants to take a lower energy level. For Naquahdah and Maclarium to be stable, they would have to have a lower energy than their "neighboring" atoms. Putting two stable atoms together is likely to do absolutely nothing. Maybe by abusing Quantum Physics to the maximum, it's possible that Naquahdah "senses" the presence of Maclarium. But maclarium -by virtue of being lighter- is a much more favorable arrangement of atomic particles that would need much less E5 to be stable. it's far more likely that Maclarium rips Naquahdah apart than vice-versa.


Even so, to rip such a particle apart via a fundamental force is....well it's insane. Fusion requires such high temperatures because the electrostatic force between atoms (equal charges repel, after all) is so strong. Only at sufficiently high temperatures can nucleae get close enough to interact and fuse.

Furthermore, fusion only works for small atoms, so fusing maclarium and naquahdah won't even yield energy. A bigger atom would require exponentially proportional more E5 to exist, which means that the E5 won't be contributing to more energy either.


671px-Binding_energy_curve_-_common_isotopes.svg.png

Above is the nuclear binding energy. For all intents and purposes, intuitive use requires you to flip the image upside down. What you get then is that Hydrogen forms a tall hill and iron is (roughly) the lowest point in the graph. What this means is that everything wants to be Iron. Hydrogen will fuse to form heavier elements, increasing the binding energy per nucleon (making the atom more stable and thus giving it a lower energy state). Naquahdah will want to be Iron and thus rip itself apart.All elements will want to roll down either hill into Iron's lowest point.

The problem that arises is that kironics has to be tuned to a specific value to be in balance. If it is too strong, it will cause Atoms to try and fuse, but also stick together much more than the show ever suggests. Among Trinium and Naquahdah, residual Kirons would work between atoms to strengthen it more, but Naquahdah itself does not appear to have such insane strength that the Kiron force has to be absurdly strong to fit the show. Since the Kiron force falls off with the square of the distance, a chemical-bond-strong force between atoms would, at the core, translate to already fairly absurdly strong powers -enough to keep the nucleus in check-.

If i tune Naquahdah's E5 field to be strong enough to rip Maclarium apart, the strength of naquahdah would shoot into the far absurd levels. Stargates are so strong not because of Naquahdah, but because the active gate itself is a humongous energy sink so that every bit of energy that strikes the gate, is easily channeled into the wormhole and sent away.

[thekillman]

As a separate post:

What you ask for is different than what you propose. I am not certain why you want Maclarium to enrich naquahdah. However, Naquahdah itself already exists in many forms and i have some stuff on that too.


Raw naquahdah:

Raw naquahdah is something a lot of people have said a lot about, but it's in essence no more than some oxide (combined with some nitrides and carbides perhaps) of Naquahdah. it's chemically reacted naquahdah and a kilogram of Raw naquahdah might only contain a fraction of the element itself. This is why some planets can be ignited ("chain reaction" i think) but mostly, it's harmless.


Naquahdah as a construction element.
Thinking about it, Naquahdah as a construction element makes sense chemically -Kironics makes it insanely strong after all- but in nuclear terms it's madness. So why is it a good idea to make your ships out of a material that under the right circumstances can fission, and that is constantly put in those right circumstances? I don't really have an answer for this, but it seems like structural naquahdah is made inert. I can explain it several ways.

One, is that some kiron-blocking element is used that can safely absorb a ****load of Kirons without risk of fission, kind of like water shielding reactors from neutrons. The other is that the Naquahdah itself is insanely stable. Say, an isotope of naquahdah that has as many magic number combinations as possible -the perfect amount of neutrons, protons, and E5- so it's far, FAR more stable than most naquahdah and the energy investment to make it fission is simply too much.

So what would Structural Naquahdah look like? The main thing is that it would need to be fairly common, as the Ha'tak are pretty big and the amount of weaponsgrade naquahdah is limited.

Fuel Naquahdah is something that appears to be nothing like weaponsgrade naquahdah. This might seem weird, but Naquahdah in bombs appears to want nothing more than to rip itself apart. A Naquahdah explosion on the atomic scale would be a mess of epic proportions, making Uranium look clean. Quite frankly, i don't understand how Naquahdah can fission cleanly in the first place, since there quite simply is no such thing as "clean" in combination with "fission". Even Fusion -hailed as a clean source of power- isn't clean. It still irradiates the reactor. The radioactive waste is simply far less worse. So back to cleanness. Since Naquahdah fissioning would unleash such a flurry of atomic matter, i doubt the kind of explosive power of Weaponsgrade naquahdah can be used as fuel at all, especially in the form of some rod. Uranium reactors slow the reaction down by absorbing a great deal of neutrons, so something must be allowing the Naquahdah to fission while preventing a cascade. Worse, it has to fit in something the size of a shoebox (because of the Mark I generator). Since Naquahdah cascades (otherwise you'd have no nukes), it needs to be mediated to slow down. It might be that Structural Naquahdah (S-Naq) and Weaponsgrade naquahdah (W-Naq) are mixed into a self-mediating rod.


Weaponsgrade Naquahdah would then simply be an isotope that is just on the edge of being stable and it would not require much disturbance to fission and keep fissioning.


Enriched naquahdah would then be Naquahdriah. The show plays fast and loose with it, but since it's still fairly stable yet far more energetic, AND it's formed when in contact with Naquahdah, i would say this occurs:

W-Nq + W-Nq = Nr + S-Nq.

Basically, two Weaponsgrade Naquahdah atoms interact, causing one (probably due to unequal distribution of E5) to grab some loose E5 (the atom is on the edge of stability and strongly Kiron-charged) and turn into Naquahdria(Nr) and the other Naquahdah(Nq) atom is robbed of it's "loose" E5 and turns into stable structural Naquahdah.


To me, there's not much more room to wiggle with Naquahdah since it's balancing on a paperthin edge. Liquid naquahdah and heavy liquid naquahdah would have to be a light, respectively heavy isotope/kirotope combination that causes it to chemically be liquid yet energetic and stable.



table.png

Above is a table i made that plots (relatively) the amount of neutrons and the amount of E5 in naquahdah. I plotted some forms of naquahdah and added K/N lines that should indicate the line of equal stability (it shows that you need a certain amount of E5 per certain amount of particles to keep it all together).

This isn't definitive, more indicative. It should show that Naquahdriah is unstable, but also extremely charged.

EDIT: i realized that it shows that W-Nq is less stable than Nr, which actually decays. I would take this as a sign that W-Nq "bleeds" its E5 particles, possibly to a more accepting S-Nq atom.

[thekillman]

The third topic i would like to address (sorry but you'll probably have to read this when you're bored or on the train or whatever) is the role of Maclarium and Trinium in this.

Trinium as a material is fairly underplayed in the series. Given that Naquahdah and Triniun and Carbon form a super-material, i'd guess that Nq and Tm nearly form a lattice with small gaps, those small gaps being filled by carbon. This maximizes the K-attraction (due to minimal distances) and preventing all sorts of corrosion and unfavorable dislodging by filling the holes with carbon (which can bond like crazy).

Maclarium is an empty book you can fill. I would place Trinium below Naquahdah, Neutronium above naquahdah, and Maclarium far below Trinium.


The use that Maclarium can have, well i don't know. Naquahdah has too many good combinations of properties that make it insanely good at everything. Maclarium's lesser energy density (because, smaller atom) likely means it has less E5 per atom. If i were to draw a line that indicates the amount of E5 as a function of the amount of nucleons per element, it would have to drop to 0 somewhere at Z=120 (120 protons) otherwise regular matter would feel it's power and that's simply not the case. Maclarium sits much more to the low areas of this graph, so it's material strength is less Kiron-influenced, it's nuclear properties are less K-influenced and so it's overall use drops.

Assuming there's a method to produce K-rich Maclarium (since maclarium itself has to be produced), one could find a way to use K-oversaturated maclarium to enrich Structural naquahdah, but i bet this would be such an energy-consuming (and energy inefficient) method that it's simply not worth it.

[Princess Awinita]

Hello peeps, I am going to be more active on the forums now that I am attempting to wright a series of SGA novels.

Really ? Who is your publisher ? Are you paid to write these stories ? Or are you self publishing ? I suggest working on your spelling there fella

[thekillman]

So has anyone been working on (preferably stargate-related) ideas and concepts and is willing to share them?

Got a few of my own but the last page of this thread already pretty much is the Thekillman Monologues so let's not make it worse shall we?

[Gormagon]

Really ? Who is your publisher ? Are you paid to write these stories ? Or are you self publishing ? I suggest working on your spelling there fella

Spell check and proof read ftw. ^.^ I have a published author helping me, then I plan to contact Fandemonium/the authors who wrote the SG-A legacy series. https://www.goodreads.com/story/show...-the-forgotten

I am only putting two chapters of my story on that site, you'll have to wait for the rest if you are interested. Right at this moment I have sprucing up the second chapter to paste it on the site.


Killman, I started reading your posts I find them interesting though I have no time to finish them at the moment and I do appreciate your taking the time to respond to my questions. Killman, we should both get into official publishing for SG books, you could join me on Goodreads.com

[Gormagon]

Posting from my tablet X D

So I am currently reading up on negative and imaginary mass theories and extensions there of. Anyways it got me thinking, could innertial dampeners be made possible through the use of negative mass? Though I find it unlikely that such an element could be tied into Stargate its more of a general question. Heck perhaps exotic physics could be used to make it work.