Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

Name:
Pre'tak

(loose translation: Scarab Ship) (thanks to lt. col. Mcoy)

Type: Cruiser

Role: Workhorse

Designers:
Tok'ra

Builders:
Jaffa Republic
JPA (Optional)

Users:
Jaffa Republic
JPA (Optional)
Tok'ra

Size:
660m long
617m wide
217 high

Powerplant :

-Twin compact L-Nq Fission cores.
-6x Hyper-density Capacitors. Deliver combat power for nearly 3 minutes.
-1x backup naquahdah reactor.

Propulsion:

-1x Main Inertialess Drive Node
-7x Inertialess Maneuvering Node
-1x Hyperdrive

Defences:

-9x Interceptor/Anti-ship Turret. (20 missiles each).

Shields:

-Front and Aft Shield generator.


Weapons:

-2x Anti-Capital Fixed Plasma cannon.
-26x Quad-barrel Turreted Plasma Cannon.

Carrying Capacity:

-2 Tel'tak/Al'kesh launch/retrieval bays.
-Capacity for 3 Tel'tak or 1 Al'kesh per bay.

Other:

-Rings
-Multi-purpose cargo rooms
-Mid-length mission facilities (leisure, etc)

Design:

In stead of building a cutting-edge ship with the newest technologies and inventions, the Jaffa decided they needed a reliable, proven kind of warship. A ship that would not require lengthy prototyping periods and extensive testing, a ship with parts interchangeable to other ships. Familiarity rather than advancement.

Because of this desire, the Pre'tak is built according to Goa'uld standards. It's weaponry is built up from the same standard components as Ha'tak, just as the shield and hyperdrive. While the hull uses naquahdah, the Pre'tak uses over 40% less Naquahdah than a Ha'tak. Although this reduces structural integrity and weapons resistance, it also cuts costs and build time. Furthermore, the use of standard Goa'uld procedures means that the Pre'tak can be made by any Goa'uld shipyard. Therefore, the Jaffa only need to minimally adapt their existing infrastructure to build them. The standardized design means that combat simulations need minimal adaption as well.

All in all, this has led to a ship with an exceptionally short prototype stage, which is relatively cheap, easy to produce and easy to man.


Description:

The Pre'tak is the Jaffa-Tok'ra answer to the Lucian War and the problems it brings. As the Lucian Aggregators are effective game-changers, the Jaffa need more and more of their Ha'tak out in the field rather than on patrol. With their internal security at risk, the Republic looked for new options. Lacking the expertise, knowledge and experience of ship design, they turned to the Tok'ra for help. In exchange for guarantees of safety and supply, the Tok'ra developed the Pre'tak for the Jaffa Republic. Incorporating many of their thoughts and desires, the Tok'ra made a ship capable of fulfilling many roles, while ensuring the Jaffa would not need major restructuring, training and adaption to operate these new ships.
Although the Jaffa desired missiles after witnessing the Tau'ris effective use of them, the Tok'ra resisted. After some political hassling, the Hebridan agreed to fit them with missile turrets, procuring the contract for missile production in the process.

Following a relatively short design period, the first Pre'tak rolled out of a hastily-modified shipyard in mid-2026. With a work ethic rarely seen before, the Jaffa began to churn out these new, mid-sized craft. By the end of 2026, the Pre'tak had already proven it's worth as a workhorse, it's combat capacity ready to be tested.


Combat:

Rather than focusing firepower, the Pre'tak seeks power in it's firerate. Featuring 26 Quad-barrel plasma cannons, the Pre'tak can dish out surprising amounts of plasma bolts. Furthermore, it can fire all four barrels at once to increase it's chance of hitting small targets, or it can fire them sequentially to continuously bombard a shield.
It's large number of small weapons means the Pre'tak can either focus a stream of bolts at a single opponent, or dish out fire to many targets. Either way, it can operate in a wide range.
In order to defeat the largest of ships, the Pre'tak is equipped with two fixed Capital plasma cannons. Although it depends on power distribution and tactics, the Pre'tak main cannons require nearly half it's offensive energy output in order to function properly. It can be used in conjunction with the rest of it's cannons, but the power requirements will drain the capacitors in half the normal time.
ALth
Though a Pre'tak -on paper- looses a 1-on-1 from an Anubis-type Ha'tak, it is best used in hunting packs.

[Gormagon]

My brain is kinda fried so I shall respond to that ^ later.

I had a thought however, (It happens.) if we are using Killmans KE5 theory, then the Vanir battle suit did not have a naquadah based power source. Why? Because the defense shield failed under fire from simple projectile weapons. No other shield in Stargate is shown failing from non exotic field carrying mass driver weapons like those. This would further show how limited the resources of the Vanir are.

Question- Could a Stargate/D.H.D shell and control crystals be broken down and used for naquadah fission power generation or hull material?

[thekillman]

. No other shield in Stargate is shown failing from non exotic field carrying mass driver weapons like those.

good old stress can break a shield. i think it shows how primitive the shield is, rather than lack of naquahdah.

Question- Could a Stargate/D.H.D shell and control crystals be broken down and used for naquadah fission power generation or hull material?

probably

[Gormagon]

The Pre'tak sounds pretty good, it is giving me some ideas to use for my own vessels. Some add on's.

Houjin warship- Kiruada class.(Loose translation-Foe/enemy killer or revenge seeker.)

Type- Heavy cruiser.

Role- Support long range mid-range combat battleship.

Designers- Hiati house. Subcontracted parts from the houses Yokuzaki, Seronashi and Mittsakou.

Builders- Houjin kingdom.

Users- Houjin space navy.

Size- 700 m long. 300m wide. 250 m high.

Powerplant-
6 small force shielded H.L.N fission cores.
Two large armored fusion reactors.
Solar collector arrays.
10 crystal based power capacitors-Can deliver combat power for ?

Propulsion-
Two main inertialess drive pods.
6 smaller inertialess drive pods.
Two hyperdrive nodes.

Defenses-
Shields: Yokuzaki/Mittsakou hybrid technology auto modulating shielding array. 6 main emitters. 4 auxiliary emitters. Each emitter has a extra energy capacitor.

E.M emitter modules x4

1 meter nano material armor. (Similiar to a really, really strong and heat resistant Graphene like material.)

50 Yokuzaki multiple setting point defense plasma turrets.

Weapons-

-10x heavy multi-capacitor plasma lances.
-28x missile tubes.
-800 missile carrying capacity.

Carrying capacity-
80 missile drones.
5 shuttles.

Other-
Maglifts.
Adaptable cargo chambers.
3 rec rooms.
Crew capacity- 350 standard. 1000 maximum human capacity.

Design: The Houjin build larger class 3 warships based on highly similar blueprints. This allows new classes of warship to be quickly built at existing shipyards without requiring the construction of a radical new birth, and the parts required can be built at existing manufacturing plants. Adaptable robotic/nanotronic manufacturing facilities make the basic changes cost very little effort or time. For example, when Seronashi came out with the series 5 hyperdrive module which was less then half the size of the series 4 well being more effective, it took less then an hour for the manufacturing plants to reconfigure themselves. The extra space on the F.T.L capable vessels was later put to good use, such as storing more drone fighters.

All Houjin ships are mostly decentralized and equipped with numerous auxiliaries and backups. The drives for example, both ends of the vessel are equipped with the same amount of drives. The command center, multiple naquadah cells and main computer is in the center of the ship surrounded for force fields and meters of armor, the hyperdrive modules are off the center, "near" the naquadah power. Well, near the conduits to the capacitors. If one system or power node is disabled, there is probably a backup for it.

The Kiruada class ship was designed from studying the covertly acquired specifications of other the empires space vessels. Well previous designs of Houjin warship would easily decimate Ha'tak class ships which possessed very inefficient missile point defense, other empires such as the Hebridans or the Tau'ri had rapid firing, highly accurate point defense weaponry. Battle simulations and calculations showed that using the missile wave technique would not be effective for the most part.

The Kiruada was equipped with more energy weapons then your standard missile platform ship, and its number of missile tubes was reduced by 50% compared to the previous missile warship designs. Instead, enhanced miniaturizing techniques allowed for smaller devices and thus more storage space for both missiles and shielded missile drones. Within a month the ever efficient Houjin empire had fully adapted to manufacturing these technologically superior missile delivery ships at all its major ship yards. As the numbers of Kiruada class ship increase and catch up with the numbers of outdated Misairu Chakushu class vessels the older warships are broken down and used for raw material.

Combat- The Kiruada is a class 3 sized missile carrying vessel. Its first and main form as attack involves ballistic weapon assault. If a long range direct strike is ineffective, missile drones are launched to swarm the foe. When the first wave of drones is close to depleting their ordinance a second wave is already on its way to relieve them and allow the first wave to re-dock and resupply.

Once the enemy vessel is reeling, the warship closes to finish it off with its plasma lances. The multiple capacitors charged out of combat with extra power allow a completely devastating first few seconds of fire power, but even when the extra capacitors depleted they are still dangerous.

Its shields are the latest and most advanced, developed by a joint venture of Yokuzaki and Mittsakou scientists. The extra capacitors function in a similar role to the capacitors of the plasma lances, they can offer a 100% boost in shield power for a short time.

It is very difficult to attack using fighters or missiles due to its overlapping point defense network and powerful E.M "cannons".

[thekillman]

I do not believe it's going to be a very effective ship, as you're using a very weird combo of cutting corners and employing advanced technology.

also, as to Ha'tak.

Nuking a ha'tak to hell is fine with me, i wrote 2 Aggregators nuking i believe 6 of them to hell in the space of 10 seconds. Nukes are about as subtle as a sledgehammer, so the Goauld would have all alarm bells ringing if they noticed their ships got nuked to hell.

I think itt's a viable tactic when quick responses are needed and there's no time for finesse and grace. If you have a reconnaisance fleet and a ha'tak shows up, i'd want it out of the picture ASAP, and nukes are a great way to do this.

But no, they're not subtle. If the enemy found out, countermeasures would quickly be taken. Therefore, it's something you can only sparingly use. the Goauld never used Point Defence (aside from a few crap turrets) and large numbers of ships disappearing by nuking would DEFINITELY change that.

It's very noticeable, and any "accident investigator" wouldn't need a whole lot of time to figure out nukes were used. besides, given the general effectiveness of nukes in SG against shielded targets, i'd say you need quite the nuclear fireworks to pull it off.

Plus, quite a nuclear industry.


As to cutting corners:

Retrofitting is a viable engineering tactic, especially since testing whole new ships etc is expensive, and fitting old stuff with new hardware usually works just fine.

However, it also rules out a whole lot of options, and a newly designed, properly tested ship will outperform a retrofitted one.

the reason we retrofit is because, to a degree, the retrofitted ship performs within the accepted boundaries, and -to a degree- does not deviate very much from a newly-designed. plus, you know, costs.

Aircraft and helicopters are retrofitting favorites. Especially the more backbone versions (the workhorses, not the elite) feature already an excellent design, and a relatively cheap retrofit puts them back in buisness for decades.

It's also excellent for those who don't spend a billion dollars on defence.

But it comes with disadvantages. for the Pre'tak, it is more than acceptable because it's not a ship designed for frontline combat, it's designed to handle all sorts of skirmishes that'll occur with "pirates" and anarchists and such. any fool with a spaceship.

Ultimately, it costs you performance.


To me, it's weird to be cutting corners in one end, and filling it with advanced tech on the other end. True, it happens, and usually the cutting corners happens in areas you can afford. the Galactica from BSG had a reduced structural integrity. it performed very, very well, and lasted much longer than anticipated, but it ultimately suffered extreme internal damage. Damage of such a degree, that realistically it would've been put on the scrapheap.

Re-using designs works, but it generates a lot of limitations. also, altering the design can very well cause unforeseen or even unforseeable problems, potentially in a whole different system than one would expect.

It's a trick you can only do so many times before you're building a shambling skeleton rather than a ship.

[Gormagon]

I do not believe it's going to be a very effective ship, as you're using a very weird combo of cutting corners and employing advanced technology.

To me, it's weird to be cutting corners in one end, and filling it with advanced tech on the other end.

?

Plus, quite a nuclear industry.

Yup, they have mastered it. That fact adds onto why "ballistics" is one of their tech strengths. Plus fissile/fusible material is not exactly a rarity compared to say, naquadah. Uranium-235 which occurs in natural uranium and enriched uranium
Plutonium-239 bred from uranium-238 by neutron capture
Plutonium-241 bred from plutonium-240 by neutron capture. The Pu-240 comes from Pu-239 by the same process.
Uranium-233 bred from thorium-232 by neutron capture. Plus Tritium and deuterium. Deuterium can be synthesized from from normal water I believe. Question, would it be efficient, in an emergency situation meaning no access to new fuel, to have a fusion reactor then could run on the Helium it had made from its fusion process?
As to cutting corners:

Retrofitting is a viable engineering tactic, especially since testing whole new ships etc is expensive, and fitting old stuff with new hardware usually works just fine.

However, it also rules out a whole lot of options, and a newly designed, properly tested ship will outperform a retrofitted one.

I think you misunderstood me, the Kiruada class is a new class of battleship, (Relatively new.) every single one in the fleet is newer, not built on an old retrofitted hull. The older Misairu Chakushu class ships are still in service as needed but as the numbers of available Kiruada class ships rise every month, the weakest and oldest Misairu Chakushu are scrapped.

But it comes with disadvantages. for the Pre'tak, it is more than acceptable because it's not a ship designed for frontline combat, it's designed to handle all sorts of skirmishes that'll occur with "pirates" and anarchists and such. any fool with a spaceship.

Misairu Chakushu class ships not scrapped would be used for home patrol and police work. Sort of like an Excelsior class ship compared to a Galaxy class ship, but less prevalent.

Re-using designs works, but it generates a lot of limitations. also, altering the design can very well cause unforeseen or even unforseeable problems, potentially in a whole different system than one would expect

. Perhaps, but I meant the designs are similar, not radically different. Like, not an O'Niell compared to a Biliskner different. An efficient shape is an efficient shape. A birth designed to handle a long "tube" like vessel like an Aschen harvester would easily be able to adapt to a new class of ship built on the same basic hull shape, just higher quality. Its not like going from building a cylinder shaped vessel to building a square.

Houjin facilities incorporate robotics and mechanics to allow for the rapid reshaping and restructuring of an existing manufacturing plant. Is that not more efficient then building a new shipyard?

[thekillman]

Its not like going from building a cylinder shaped vessel to building a square.

it's not so much about external shapes as it is about internals.
hallway plans, powerlines, information lines, it's all planned according to the original specs. at one point, you're gonna end up having to place a shield generator where the mess hall was, installing cables for power power from halfway across the ships, requiring an infocenter where the loo was, etc.

A ship is filled in around the core systems. so after a few design re-runs, your ship becomes a mess.

Houjin facilities incorporate robotics and mechanics to allow for the rapid reshaping and restructuring of an existing manufacturing plant. Is that not more efficient then building a new shipyard?

it depends. it's inevitable that at one point, your facility has to be scrapped to accomodate new technology, new standards, etc. how long you meddle around with existing yards is up to you, there's definitely an optimum between renewal and scrapping.

?

1m thick nano hull, bunch of inertialess drives, bunch of fusion reactors, ton of turrets, advanced shield system, etc. on the other hand, you're reusing desigs and production facilities.

i do have a massive headache, so it might just be that. but it strikes me as a weird design.

as i said before: nuking a ship is fine, but it's messy and requires a lot of nukes, and a lot of logistics to keep the nukes supplied, and the missiles. your ships are bound to run out of them quick.

also, once the enemy finds out you're nuking them, countermeasures would be quick on their way. as the Goauld never developed them, i'd urge you to be sparingly with nuclear attacks on the Goauld.

[Gormagon]

Yes, that is why they have other designs of vessel.^ For when the nukes run out.Bye bye nukes.

[Gormagon]

it's not so much about external shapes as it is about internals.
hallway plans, powerlines, information lines, it's all planned according to the original specs. at one point, you're gonna end up having to place a shield generator where the mess hall was, installing cables for power power from halfway across the ships, requiring an infocenter where the loo was, etc.

Oh that was always more complex anyway. Thats fine though. Man power and robotics would help lots with the building of a ships internals. However, they all follow a similar design shape, just different sizes or tech levels and slightly different configurations as time progresses.

it depends. it's inevitable that at one point, your facility has to be scrapped to accomodate new technology, new standards, etc. how long you meddle around with existing yards is up to you, there's definitely an optimum between renewal and scrapping.

Myself (And therefore the Houjin.) would proceed to begin construction of a new shipyard sometime before the old one became completely obsolete, so that by the time it did the new one would be ready to keep the ball rolling.

1m thick nano hull, bunch of inertialess drives, bunch of fusion reactors, ton of turrets, advanced shield system, etc. on the other hand, you're reusing desigs and production facilities.

I reuse similar designs for efficient production and the production facilities are updated. For example, and this is just an example, the Houjin discover a superior nano engineered material for use in robotic construction arms they would not shut down the whole facility, they would shut down and upgrade the first docking birth to release a new vessel, then the next and so on, the the entire operation is not shutdown all at once.

i do have a massive headache, so it might just be that. but it strikes me as a weird design.

Weird can be good.

as i said before: nuking a ship is fine, but it's messy and requires a lot of nukes, and a lot of logistics to keep the nukes supplied, and the missiles. your ships are bound to run out of them quick.

also, once the enemy finds out you're nuking them, countermeasures would be quick on their way. as the Goauld never developed them, i'd urge you to be sparingly with nuclear attacks on the Goauld.

Yes, that is why I have gunboat type class 3 ships. But I also have an evil plan that shall be revealed in my stories....

How quickly would the parasitic Goa'uld really be able to figure out how to counter missiles?

[thekillman]

How quickly would the parasitic Goa'uld really be able to figure out how to counter missiles?

it depends on a lot of factors. a ship struck somewhere far from the regular goauld Domain wouldn't be noticed that much. but if it happens several times, they'll investigate, and the more they loose in a shorter timeframe, the quicker they'll defend themselves.

It's like a non-newtonian fluid. the harder you push, the more it resists.

Anyway, it also depends on the locations you nuke, and the goauld who's getting nuked. but i don't consider it a very viable long-term strategy. It's simply too easy to rig up a bunch of defences against a nuclear strike.

Now i also remember why i found your ship weird. I'd split it up in two ships: a Plasma-equipped one and a Missile-equipped one. has more to do with supporting systems than actual firepower. You need generators, bigger conduits etc for plasma, and storage space and launch facilities for missiles. While a human Battlecruiser does combine the two, the missiles fulfill more of a supportive role. as a main-attack role, it strikes me as weird.

It would likely require two separate designs, built from the ground up.

Oh that was always more complex anyway.

this is mostly me pointing out stuff you have to take in mind, as it doesn't appear to me that you did. I'm pointing out the consequences there are.

the consequences for the Pre'tak are, that it's not a stellar-performing warship. it's no problem for me or the Jaffa, as they have a whole range of Anubian ha'tak to fill that role. I would eventually replace the Ha'tak with something actually designed as a warship, but i think the Pre'tak would cost the jaffa enough for now

[Gormagon]

a Plasma-equipped one and a Missile-equipped one. has more to do with supporting systems than actual firepower. You need generators, bigger conduits etc for plasma, and storage space and launch facilities for missiles. While a human Battlecruiser does combine the two, the missiles fulfill more of a supportive role. as a main-attack role, it strikes me as weird.

The way I designed it it all fits pretty well, a class 3 gunboat has 20 heavy plasma lances and 2 bombard plasma lances. But the Kiruada is more of a hybrid class 3 missile carrying warship then any previous design, multipurpose. It has its lances for when the missiles run out, unlike the Misairu Chakushu which had minimal energy weapons. The Kiruada is the first in a line of "new generation" Houjin warships.


The Kiruada class vessels plasma lances are located on the "bottom", 5 at each end of the vessel, each set of 5 is right off a fusion reactor, as there is a fusion reactor located in each half section of a Kiruada class vessel, referred to as the fore or aft power core. The missile bays are located on the upper levels along with the missile drones.

The Houjin generally like to send out ships in what are called long term battle squadrons, commonly made up of 3 supply carrier ships, 2 drone carriers, 1 E.W ship, 4 gunboats, 4 missile ships, 6 scouts and a base ship, which I believe to be a very good combo for battle effectiveness. Without the support vessels around Houjin ship combat effectiveness is severely reduced because each ship is a specialized killer(Weakness). Seeing as how this can be a disadvantage because of cost and such, the Kiruada is an attempt to make a more "freelance" capable vessel for single ship combat missions.

In their own relatively smaller space, the battle group provides them a serious advantage.

[thekillman]

i understand. well, except the "type 3" thing


just watched Battleship. dang that's an awesome movie

[Gormagon]

"You understand?" *looking around* Im worried.....


Class 3 means a battleship or carrier sized hull, a class 2 would be a Destroyer, a class 1 a scout, a class 4 would be a base ship.


I have been invited to an Avengers movies marathon, Iron man 1 and 2, I Hulk, CaptainAmerica, and the mighty Thor. Then our group heads off to the theater.

By the way the Canberra Australian vandalist made a talk page edit to my page on the GWVF wiki.

[thekillman]

a lot of stuff is relative, and only properly interpreted in context.

Avengers is on my watch list, watched all but the Hulk.

[Gormagon]

a lot of stuff is relative, and only properly interpreted in context.

Um, ok.

"Hulk smash!!!"


I erased the edit but I am worried the vandalist will do something else.