Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[blackluster]

Hm, personally I find myself bitterly disappointed with Terra Nova so far. Hopefully it gets better.

[StargateWatcher]

*bottles some of that high quality sarcasm for use at a later date*

hehehehe hehe

[StargateWatcher]

Has anyone heard from PuddleJumperOz recently by the way? I hope he's doing alright.

[thekillman]

We already had hand based rail guns and tbh the only weapon we were using on the goauld were normal weapons until sg10 so yeah id say if we make use of more ground troops we would have a small amount ofhandheld energy weapons in the pipeline. The Houjin may have got there way before us though, but likely ours would be based on the above principles of using staff, zat, intar and stun grenades (the tech we have to study) and combining them in a more earth housing and delivery system.

for the love of god no handheld railguns. there's so much wrong with that.

[immhotep]

for the love of god no handheld railguns. there's so much wrong with that.

They werent 'heldheld' but ground based, vehicle mounted type things. They were heavy weapons. In the fleets for 2.0 we actually used Intar technology to replicate the stun settings and put an Intar option on almost all our weaponry. It basically gave us the Ronan effect but with our standard armoury.

I think that is the way we will always go, find out the production base for Intars and we have perfect non lethal weaponry. Perfect option for police, riot control, security guards, gate customs, kidnapping. And their obvious use as training weapons. No need to change weapons in use as they can be retograded to incorporate that form of energy.

As to handheld weapons for the Tauri generally. I actually think our weaponry has shown to be superior on almost all occasions to virtually all enemies. I cant think of a major example of us not being able to kill something. Priors and shielded opponants dont count, as even with more advanced energy weapons these are still unable to be killed easily. I think we would upgrade our heavy weapons to incorporate Rail and X1001 technology (the energy weapon we were starting to develop) with potentially an energy rifle at some point in the future. But i think for at least the next 50 years the majority of the tauri will fight with conventional small arms. As in terms of production, supply and sheer availability and diversity of existing weapons we havent tested in the field galaxy wide. We still have a major advantage to play. We have enough bullets produced in the world to kill every wraith, jaffa, goauld and human out in the galaxy without much trouble. So why not use them lol. In fact I would argue that our conventional arms trade will be the first thing to be exported galaxy wide. Whoever corners that market would be a very very major player....Templar???

[thekillman]

I think that is the way we will always go, find out the production base for Intars and we have perfect non lethal weaponry

true

I think we would upgrade our heavy weapons to incorporate Rail and X1001 technology

i don't think railguns CAN become smaller than the emplacements in The Siege. any smaller and whoever uses it dies on the spot.

But i think for at least the next 50 years the majority of the tauri will fight with conventional small arms.

\

INTAR tech will likely become an attachment to standard issue weapons.

In fact I would argue that our conventional arms trade will be the first thing to be exported galaxy wide.

in my personal take of the LA, everyone but Za's faction uses projectile weapons. Za has energy weapons cause, well i kind of assumed it was a failed project and she didn't feel like throwing them away

[immhotep]

i don't think railguns CAN become smaller than the emplacements in The Siege. any smaller and whoever uses it dies on the spot.

The emplacements in Siege were an early form of the technology, an advanced one, most likely a retrofit of the weapons used on Promethius, which i believe were a form of Asgard Railgun. But the emplacemnets used on vehicles, tanks, anti air etc, would not be the fully automatic versions seen on atlantis. I realise the implications of using a rail gun at close quarters, this was used in the battle forthe SGC prelude to 1.0. They created craters so large they became a killing pit for anyone approaching. But they could be toned down, a less highly powered form, semiautomatic, perhaps even shell based ,retrofitted on to tanks etc would be an option. We are already working on them. A hyrbid of our real world versions and SG's would be outcome. I doubt they could be rifle sized. Another genuine revolution I think will come is K-naq, as our bullets already use potassium nitrate. Adding a naquadah shell casing or tip would create an incredible powerful weapon system, the explosive potential of naquadah (nothing nuclear or anything but more like a RPG) in a single bullet. I know it may sound uber, but it REALLY isnt considering our knowledge of how naqaduah and potassium reacts. BTW As to why the goauld have never used K-naq. As Earth is a planet with no naquadah (rare in SG) it is possible that potassium was very rare in naqaudah rich enviroments due to this high reactivity. As such Earth has a relatively abundant source of Potassium combared to the goauld, and can exploit this to enhance its scarcer supply of naquadah to best effect. (Ive thought ALOT about K-naq over the years!)

INTAR tech will likely become an attachment to standard issue weapons.

in my personal take of the LA, everyone but Za's faction uses projectile weapons. Za has energy weapons cause, well i kind of assumed it was a failed project and she didn't feel like throwing them away

Agree on INTAR.

As to the LA. I disagree. While the LA do use projectiles, I think our own weapons are still much more developed than theirs. After disclosure, every major arms manufacturer will be realising there are billions of humans which are engaged in ever expanding conflict and will have a wet dream. Our weapons will be everywhere!!

[Princess Awinita]

Has anyone heard from PuddleJumperOz recently by the way? I hope he's doing alright.

According to his daughter Mel, her father Underwent cranial surgery to fix some troubles pertaining to a recent war wound reopening and causing troubles, he had a metal platye put into his skull from an injury and it was pressing on his grey matter. He also has no access to a computer of any kind at the moment as well. This is all I know

[blackluster]

I was thinking about a human offshoot culture drawing on elements of Homeworld-verse and GitS-verse. The idea was that they had a very similar progression to earth in terms of weapons and technological development, only they are maybe 2 decades ahead of earth in chem eng and they had no Geneva convention holding back what they deployed during their civil wars.

For the setting their world is just coming out of a 200 year unification war. Most of their world is irradiated and suffering the effects of a nuclear winter. Their tech had just barely made it to the point where they could save themselves from extinction and so they manage to survive on their world.

They had uncovered a buried stargate long ago but on account of the war they could never research it for long enough to get it to work until now. They are a bit like earth was in their desire to explore the universe only they are more paranoid and distrustful.

Their level of technology integration into society is quite advanced where they have obtained ubiquitous connectivity and communications. Despite the fact that not many of them remain (massive losses during civil war), they are all completely interconnected in the various remaining cities.

Their weaponry includes: advanced chemical projectile technology where high velocity (HV) rounds are common place. Their military generally deploys heavy caliber soft tip rounds which cause horrific injuries. They also commonly deploy chemical weapons. The biggest punch they pack are vanilla nuclear weapons. Their advances in networking have helped them make great strides in robotics. They use drone support for troops quite extensively.

On power generation they use nuclear exclusively, but they are a number of decades ahead of earth where their power stations are more efficient and they are able to effectively deal with waste.

Historically, they were a mixed up combination of slaves that were dumped together so they don't tend to any particular cultural reference. Their world was changed hands many times in the course of Goa'uld power struggles as well. The last system lord who ruled them was defeated on his homeworld elsewhere. With no further support and due to the war shifting elsewhere, the locals were able to drive off the few remaining jaffa who had no further reason to be there.

Cue development through their history being somewhat unique, incorporating many forms and traditions of the long line of goa'uld who ruled them. They were in a constant state of war and peace until the final unification war which was so devastating that they had no choice but to reform or die. Even though their temporary form of government is vulnerable to corruption, it is currently stable.

Their involvement in the galaxy is one of cautious explorers. When they come across things they want or that they feel threatened by, they can tend to resort to violence rather quickly. The level to which they have mastered the technology and their approaches to warfare makes them rather adept at concealing their involvement in events that can directly incriminate them.


Just a draft idea so far after that discussion about feudalism. I don't have a name for them yet.

[Gormagon]

I like but you dont need Kirons and Exotons. You dont even need to define the whole particle machinisms.

Hmmm.

I would say a better version, just to make it more coherent, is to say that the weapon still has 4 settings but based on a single plasma based ammunition.

Plasma based? Erm, I did not want plasma because it is easy to make stuff immune to plasma weapons, I.E Tau'ri ceramic polymer.

That said, I discovered a possible problem with particle weaponry.

As to LN cell, fine as they have powered staff weapons for endless amounts of time without issue. But it would say that the 3/4 type of shot drains it about 10%. Of course unlike the goauld we or the houjin would keep refills on hand...I think it can work.

Perhaps I am totally wrong but if it fires a stream of particles.....if it fires naquadah atoms, would that drain the small amount of naquadah in the cell quickly? My issue with that being both the reloading and the cost in naquadah, a comparatively rare element in the universe.

If not, or if no one cares, great!

I actually think our weaponry has shown to be superior on almost all occasions to virtually all enemies.

I had the full auto setting to make it compete with (And surpass in most cases) projectile weapons. It can rapid fire little particle discharges. Its a automatic energy weapon. It would not kill Replicators,(As far as I know) but it would be superior in every other way.

BTW can we keep the games chat etc to PM or something?

Sorry.

I wanted to post some story today but I cannot. Sorry. I will get too it though.

[fugiman]

Plasma based? Erm, I did not want plasma because it is easy to make stuff immune to plasma weapons, I.E Tau'ri ceramic polymer.

I wouldn't say immune but resistant to plasma weapons. Other then shields we really haven't seen much of anything immune to Plasma weapons

[Gormagon]

But that is just Tau'ri C.P, I would be worried about other, more advanced races developing a far superior material.

I just had a interesting thought. I was playing Age of mythology (The Titans expansion.) and I clicked to upgrade my soldiers with mithril armor, and it started me thinking. What could be a Stargate bases for mithril? Duh, trinium!

[immhotep]

Plasma based? Erm, I did not want plasma because it is easy to make stuff immune to plasma weapons, I.E Tau'ri ceramic polymer.

That said, I discovered a possible problem with particle weaponry.

Perhaps I am totally wrong but if it fires a stream of particles.....if it fires naquadah atoms, would that drain the small amount of naquadah in the cell quickly? My issue with that being both the reloading and the cost in naquadah, a comparatively rare element in the universe.
I had the full auto setting to make it compete with (And surpass in most cases) projectile weapons. It can rapid fire little particle discharges. Its a automatic energy weapon. It would not kill Replicators,(As far as I know) but it would be superior in every other way.

The ceramic polymer is a very advanced kull based retroengineer, likely to be unavailable to most SG units and only fitted to specialist teams. Even if it was widely used, it was never designed to be invulnerable, even in the tests, it is designed to disipate the energy of a staff blast over a wider area. Nothing beyond our current means of technology, kevlar is designed to spread the kinetic impact over a wide area. The ceramic polymer only spreads the heat and energy. Nothing even above our current technology level.

As to it firing naquadah particles, there is only a limited amount of naquadah in each LN cell. So in conventional terms it does have an ammo limit. I dont think it would be that high given the concentration of naq based particles you are assuming to make up a beam. Staff weapons are plasma based, the LN cell produces the energy required to superheat gases in the normal atmosphere to create a plasma that is then fired. To fire a stream of charged naq particles would deplete the LN cell far far fast than a staff weapon. Because it would be limited by the exact number of particles in the LN cell. A staff weapon may be less powerful the older it is due to lesser power production, but an LN particle rifle would have a limited number of shots automatically.


As to projectile vs energy weapons. There are FAR to many debates in scifi for me to cover this in good spread but from what i have read I would say that in virtually all gate based situations that we have ever known the projective weapon is by far the most effective weapon in the galaxy. This may be a TV trick, but ive read enough analysis of it to understand it to be realistically true. The Jaffa, Wraith, Unas, Goauld, LA, Tokra, Human Orii, Other humans military have absolutely not effective countermeasure to it besides kinetic shields. In reality equipping every soldier with a personal shield will never work, if officer etc do have shields there are other weapons to employ but in the VAST majority of opponants small arms of varying kinds from Earth have the advantage. I highly doubt any race in the galaxy has as much small arms diversity as we do. Simply because no race has been allowed to advanced as far as we have whilst having as many internal conflicts spurred on by arms races. In effect our planet non gatewise has created the most armed life supporting world in the galaxy, and by SG term that means at least in ground combat we would OWN any single force in the galaxy by massive factors. I mean if we put a full jaffa army against the equivalent on Earth they would be decimated. There is simply no ground force in the SG: MW that could even remotely compete with a fully SG revealed Earth military. Not even a chance. If we put troops on the ground its over. We win. Its only in space that we are vulnerable, hence our priority being SPACE BASED combat. We need ships, and fast. If we just used our ground forced we could cripple entire empires, but we cant just use them!

[thekillman]

which i believe were a form of Asgard Railgun.

the asgard don't have anything like that.

I realise the implications of using a rail gun at close quarters,

a railgun from an engineering perspective CAN'T become much smaller than those emplacements as the shockwave and heat generated would kill whoever uses it.

We are already working on them.

true, and they would have the impact force of a Tomahawk. the emplacements won't be that powerful by far. we can build such weapons tho.

Another genuine revolution I think will come is K-naq

given that it was retconned i doubt that.

While the LA do use projectiles, I think our own weapons are still much more developed than theirs.

what exactly are you disagreeing on?

Erm, I did not want plasma because it is easy to make stuff immune to plasma weapons, I.E Tau'ri ceramic polymer.

what show have you been watching? last time i checked it only barely saved people from a plasma bolt.

I had the full auto setting to make it compete with (And surpass in most cases) projectile weapons. It can rapid fire little particle discharges. Its a automatic energy weapon. It would not kill Replicators,(As far as I know) but it would be superior in every other way.

you simply don't need exotic fuel for your particle weapon. if really needed, you could make it solely reliant on atmosphere and power. so long as there is some form of air your weapon could fire (given that it has power).

As to projectile vs energy weapons. There are FAR to many debates in scifi for me to cover this in good spread but from what i have read I would say that in virtually all gate based situations that we have ever known the projective weapon is by far the most effective weapon in the galaxy.

Exceptions to this are :
-non-lethal warfare
-Anti shield warfare
-extreme long periods of battle. (that is, Plasma weapons have virtually no ammo limit).

this boils down to:

give every soldier a gun and a plasma side-arm.

We need ships, and fast. If we just used our ground forced we could cripple entire empires, but we cant just use them!

i doubt this. the point is that we simply can not capture earth-like planets. which is why i believe the LA still exists: they control a few worlds we simply can't touch as our ships can;t get through, the gate can't be used and even if we defeated both, we couldn't possibly effectively control or capture those planets.

it's true for quite a few cases tho.

[immhotep]

the asgard don't have anything like that.

The Asgard gave us "asgard designed shields and weapons for the promethius" and the siege weaposn were slated for the promethius. I think its a logical jump.

given that it was retconned i doubt that.

It wasnt retconned and we can use it. And really should.

i doubt this. the point is that we simply can not capture earth-like planets. which is why i believe the LA still exists: they control a few worlds we simply can't touch as our ships can;t get through, the gate can't be used and even if we defeated both, we couldn't possibly effectively control or capture those planets.

it's true for quite a few cases tho.

Oh I agree that we cant take on fully developed Earth style planets. However these are rare, the majority of the galaxy lives in semi industrial towns and villages around the gate. These can easily be taken with a fully deployed earth military. We do have ALOT more soldiers to deploy than most of the populations seen offworld...