Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

For instance, no force shields around their vessels. Two reasons for that, 1, power. They suck at power generation. 2, it is highly unlikely they could develop shielding capable of holding back Lantian Drones.

sort of. yes any shielding would be useless. however notice that the power normally used for shields can be used for weaponry.

You need to read more.

i don't read the stargate books, nor are they canon.

Whats wrong with a civilization/nation that manged to not fall on its face when it came to not getting into debt?

well i'll say this first: sure the Houjin are basically a Hat planet due to their history so we can't accurately determine what would happen.

however, if you followed the current crisis a bit, you'd know that it happened because of cultural differences, a desire to fit in on the part of the Greek, and not being alert on the part of the Banks. plus every bank in the world did the same: go to places where you get more profit.

secondly, debt is necessary. well debt, i'd say LOANS.

an economy can not run without it. granted, the way things go nowadays borders the crazy. however you simply can't buy a house without a loan. ultimately you'll need them, and unless the Houjin removed greed from their genes (which would have a far greater impact than just no greed), they will fail at it at some point.


secondly, i wasn't talking about a europe situation. more like an America situation. America is kind of finding out how ******* expensive war is. a war in space is more costly. the only reason Earth can do it is because every ship we launch is quite superior to the ones we face. our effective firepower and cost per arbitrary unit of firepower is so much higher respectively lower than other races.



furthermore, the fleet is around 2025, although some stories already are around 2028.
ATL s5 was around 2009-2010. SGU s1 and s2 are around 2010-2011. (very roughly)

thorium is not called heavy uranium for example,

bad example. thorium is a different element whereas HLN is an isotope/exotope of Naquahdah.

I think regular liquid naquadah should be exactly what you said, but H.L.N should be more potent.

on the contrary. LqNq is what weapons need and Goauld weapons are polluting.

Next other than neutrons and houjin does anyone else have something to talk about or is anyone coming out with a new story soon?

i'm working on the Biopunk aspect of my "dead planet" story idea.

was doing research on the Undead and it's various forms. the Revenant are a kind of remains of a dead being that is still intelligent and has free will, by the way. (which was why i wanted that name, aside from a few other things).

if you can give me some original zombies, go ahead.

mutant zombies allowed.

[Princess Awinita]

I have the next part of my story ready but since SGU ended I'm struggling to find motivation to keep writing and coming up with stuff.

I am having the same problem with my SGA fanfic Ascension War III, just can't get into proper gear. though with Project Icegate, Project One, my Transformers/SG1 crossover, that is running like a well oiled machine

[Gormagon]

I have been so busy of late working and things, I have some story written but I need to get back to it.

sort of. yes any shielding would be useless. however notice that the power normally used for shields can be used for weaponry.

So you are saying they have starship level force shields, even though we never did see them in the series, only E.M jamming shields? And if so, how advanced?

i don't read the stargate books, nor are they canon.

One of those links was too the real Charybdis myth, so I included other books in my "you need to read more"

The Atlantas books, most of the time, offer interesting and realistic "super" technologies developed by the Lantians. Like Charybdis. Atlantas only went 5 seasons so who knows what else the Ancients tried? I find it likely they tried temporal solution at some point before being shut down my Moros(Merlin.). Since Atlantas is unlikely to be continued except in the Legacy book series, I find those books useful. (Why do they not publish the script in novel form?!)

The Ancients thought too big.

Besides, WE are non cannon!!!

well i'll say this first: sure the Houjin are basically a Hat planet due to their history so we can't accurately determine what would happen.

Controversial?

however, if you followed the current crisis a bit, you'd know that it happened because of cultural differences, a desire to fit in on the part of the Greek, and not being alert on the part of the Banks. plus every bank in the world did the same: go to places where you get more profit.

Real world crisis?
Cultural differences-They are mostly Japanese, with 3 human races and one alien race in the kingdom.
Banks/profit- Remember to them profit is more of a tool for survival and advancement then a means to a selfish end. The alien race pounded that into them.(Literally) Greedy/insane elements of the kingdom formed the Kaizoku Karuteru. And of late, more corrupted, greedy people/politicians, when they crop up, have a way of...changing. Its quite fantastic really, just overnight personality overhaul.(Story element, adding a dark side)

secondly, debt is necessary. well debt, i'd say LOANS.

Loans? Why would their government need loans?> The government, although it allows independent actions and companies to exist, those are fully aware that the government may requisition needed supplies from them at anytime, in the form of a tax. The government is wise and honorable not to over tax any one of them and only do it in emergencies, and they are often repaid with something, such as a new untouched resource territory or future military contract. Otherwise, they build things within the budget. Which is not small.

Each territory is ruled by a Shikken, a regent, and under him are the heads of the noble houses, each area manages their own resources, and pays a tax to the Shikken, who pays a tax to the Shogunate. Those taxes can include- Raw materials, finished goods, profit tax in the form of Koku(Money), sometimes in land, or, in the LABOR of engineers and raw materials taxed from mining companies, such as for the building of warships.

Remember their system if different the America. The government can actually act without debating endless things in congress with each *Cough*corrupt*Cough* person trying to get their way. The Shogunate is, well, all mighty. He seeks counsel from his Shikken, and they oversee large territories in his name, but he has final say on all matters brought to him. If the Shogunate appears to be being corrupted in some fashion, which can happen, he visits the holy temple of Kokoro. His soul is purged of the darkness that exists in the hearts of lesser men.

an economy can not run without it. granted, the way things go nowadays borders the crazy. however you simply can't buy a house without a loan. ultimately you'll need them, and unless the Houjin removed greed from their genes (which would have a far greater impact than just no greed), they will fail at it at some point.

Our economic system is so freaking screwed. We need to hit "reset".

Buying houses? Forgot about that part. I was mostly referring to the government. However, here is how the housing system would work for them I would imagine- The lower cast, they have designated living areas. Those living areas are ether built by the lower casts own hands or were commissioned by the local government leader, most likely a head of a house, out of his own pocket to provide his workers with housing. If built through official channels they would be nigh indestructible from every day happenings, not a war. The lower cast has to only pay an "Fluctuating tribute" , meaning based entirely on their assets, and never on a commissioned house. They can be booted from that house if they behave dishonorably.

Upper casts, the noble houses for example, their palaces and castles have been standing for centuries.

secondly, i wasn't talking about a europe situation. more like an America situation. America is kind of finding out how ******* expensive war is. a war in space is more costly. the only reason Earth can do it is because every ship we launch is quite superior to the ones we face. our effective firepower and cost per arbitrary unit of firepower is so much higher respectively lower than other races.

AHA! Earth again! Earths economic situation is messed up. That is why we are struggling with space combat! However, the Houjin are not messed up. Houjin ships have been being built over long periods of time, inside the budget. They are also high quality, higher quality then Earth ships because of the general tech advantage.

furthermore, the fleet is around 2025, although some stories already are around 2028.
ATL s5 was around 2009-2010. SGU s1 and s2 are around 2010-2011. (very roughly)

Ok. So they could have recovered from the Replicator conflict. Look where our economy has gone in 15 years.(The wrong way.)

bad example. thorium is a different element whereas HLN is an isotope/exotope of Naquahdah.

Thorium is made from uranium decaying, but I was just using it as an example as far as names go.

on the contrary. LqNq is what weapons need and Goauld weapons are polluting.

Carbon dioxide. Or monoxide. I think that has more to do with the technology of the weapon and the plasma discharge then the power source. Naquadah reactors are radioactive, as stated by Sam. I think Liquid naquadah should be more efficient then solid naquadah, and H.L.N should be more potent, having a larger nucleus. The very name, H.L.N, heavy, that has to mean something. (If it were just efficiency, why say heavy?) However, I think you are forgetting about Weapons grade refined naquadah..which has always been seen in solid bars. There is your efficient material, which should be able to be made into L.N, then that into, H.L.N which should be more potent.

was doing research on the Undead and it's various forms. the Revenant are a kind of remains of a dead being that is still intelligent and has free will, by the way. (which was why i wanted that name, aside from a few other things).

if you can give me some original zombies, go ahead.

mutant zombies allowed.

Tel'chak device..a prototype device makes zombies. (Then Col. Mitchel can shoot them all)

[thekillman]

So you are saying they have starship level force shields, even though we never did see them in the series, only E.M jamming shields? And if so, how advanced?

no. i'm saying that they have more powerful weapons because they don't have shields.

they thus have more energy available to weapons, whereas if they did have them, that power would be used for shielding.

Real world crisis?
Cultural differences-They are mostly Japanese, with 3 human races and one alien race in the kingdom.
Banks/profit- Remember to them profit is more of a tool for survival and advancement then a means to a selfish end. The alien race pounded that into them.(Literally) Greedy/insane elements of the kingdom formed the Kaizoku Karuteru. And of late, more corrupted, greedy people/politicians, when they crop up, have a way of...changing. Its quite fantastic really, just overnight personality overhaul

i get the feeling i missed something here.

Why would their government need loans?

our countries have debt because the economy is not that predictable. it exists because generally, you loose tons of money easily but don't gain them easily.

Remember their system if different the America. The government can actually act without debating endless things in congress with each *Cough*corrupt*Cough* person trying to get their way. The Shogunate is, well, all mighty. He seeks counsel from his Shikken, and they oversee large territories in his name, but he has final say on all matters brought to him. If the Shogunate appears to be being corrupted in some fashion, which can happen, he visits the holy temple of Kokoro. His soul is purged of the darkness that exists in the hearts of lesser men.

...what?

Our economic system is so freaking screwed. We need to hit "reset".

maybe, but it simply does not work that way.

AHA! Earth again! Earths economic situation is messed up. That is why we are struggling with space combat! However, the Houjin are not messed up. Houjin ships have been being built over long periods of time, inside the budget. They are also high quality, higher quality then Earth ships because of the general tech advantage.

so what? earth is the only reality we can compare it against. you're painting a more than ideal situation for the Houjin.

Carbon dioxide. Or monoxide. I think that has more to do with the technology of the weapon and the plasma discharge then the power source. Naquadah reactors are radioactive, as stated by Sam. I think Liquid naquadah should be more efficient then solid naquadah, and H.L.N should be more potent, having a larger nucleus. The very name, H.L.N, heavy, that has to mean something. (If it were just efficiency, why say heavy?) However, I think you are forgetting about Weapons grade refined naquadah..which has always been seen in solid bars. There is your efficient material, which should be able to be made into L.N, then that into, H.L.N which should be more potent.

weapons grade naquahdah is called that because it's the raw material for weapons.


remember that naquahdah was depicted as quartz-like? well i think that's the oxide form. raw naquahdah is naquahdah ore. it's refined into regular naquahdah, and further refined into weaponsgrade naquahdah.

then, i theorize, it's chemically altered in some way to be liquid (some kind of metallic amalgam?), allowing for easier use in weaponry.

then, HLN would be LqNq made of heavier isotopes, but creating energy in a cleaner fashion.


i didn't say it's more efficient. i said it's cleaner.

Tel'chak device..a prototype device makes zombies. (Then Col. Mitchel can shoot them all)

joke?

[Gormagon]

no. i'm saying that they have more powerful weapons because they don't have shields.

they thus have more energy available to weapons, whereas if they did have them, that power would be used for shielding.

Ah.

i get the feeling i missed something here.

Might not have been there for you to see. Not everything I have on the Houjin is on the wiki. Yet.

our countries have debt because the economy is not that predictable. it exists because generally, you loose tons of money easily but don't gain them easily.

They also spend like crazy and make stupid financial decisions. Like that bale out order of the banks and things. That money should have been given to the people for saving their homes, or, give it to the companies but...they have to use it to actually help, not put it in their pockets.

I hate real world economics and politics.

...what?

You shall see.

maybe, but it simply does not work that way.

That is the problem.....

so what? earth is the only reality we can compare it against. you're painting a more than ideal situation for the Houjin.

I am trying to show how a society does not have to screw itself. A older, wiser race gave guidelines to an already intelligent people. And the reality on Earth sux.

weapons grade naquahdah is called that because it's the raw material for weapons.


remember that naquahdah was depicted as quartz-like? well i think that's the oxide form. raw naquahdah is naquahdah ore. it's refined into regular naquahdah, and further refined into weaponsgrade naquahdah.

then, i theorize, it's chemically altered in some way to be liquid (some kind of metallic amalgam?), allowing for easier use in weaponry.

then, HLN would be LqNq made of heavier isotopes, but creating energy in a cleaner fashion.


i didn't say it's more efficient. i said it's cleaner.

Again I think we are only disagreeing on the potency factor. H.L.N should be more powerful then regular naquadah. Heck, we can make up other isotopes if we want, meaning the the cool name "heavy liquid naquadah" should apply to a more potent material.

joke?

Partially.
Zombies, in Stargate, only ways I can think of right now.
Tel'chak device or a prototype.
A mutagenic virus engineered by the Adnihilo millions of years ago.

[thekillman]

A mutagenic virus engineered by the Adnihilo millions of years ago.

the adnihilo are simply not in this fleet.

they're of no concern.

and it most definitely will not be a virus.

H.L.N should be more powerful then regular naquadah.

depends on what you define as regular naquadah.

Heck, we can make up other isotopes if we want, meaning the the cool name "heavy liquid naquadah" should apply to a more potent material.

you do realize that for naquahdah, other isotopes won't be sufficiently powerful in relation to basic naquahdah to require a new name.

naquahdah itself likely consists of many isotopes. even weaponsgrade and LN. simply because there's no real use in refining it to single isotopes.

more interesting might be the exotopes, naquahdah atoms which are identical in protons and neutrons but not in exotons.

[Gormagon]

the adnihilo are simply not in this fleet.

they're of no concern.

and it most definitely will not be a virus.

Then you got the Tel'chak device. Not in this fleet no, but if they are ever going to be in a fleet again, there should be references to them, being such an ancient race.

depends on what you define as regular naquadah.




you do realize that for naquahdah, other isotopes won't be sufficiently powerful in relation to basic naquahdah to require a new name.

naquahdah itself likely consists of many isotopes. even weaponsgrade and LN. simply because there's no real use in refining it to single isotopes.

more interesting might be the exotopes, naquahdah atoms which are identical in protons and neutrons but not in exotons.

By regular naquadah I mean your average naquadah.

Unlike naquadria?

So, exotopes, how many exotons does your average naquadah nucleus have?

Then we can have naquadah-124 and naquadah-125, exotons.<Just examples.

[immhotep]

you do realize that for naquahdah, other isotopes won't be sufficiently powerful in relation to basic naquahdah to require a new name.

Well Naquadriah is a variant of Naquadah that was much more power and got a new name.

the adnihilo are simply not in this fleet.

they're of no concern.

and it most definitely will not be a virus.

Have to say Im getting bored of the Adnihlo just being chipped in for no reason. Can you stop using them please, they are not in this fleet and if you want to use them, go back to 2.0 and use them there. On the Zombie note, the Sarcofagus and Telchak devices did reanimate dead tissue and to varying degree produce a zombie like effect. In terms of SG zombies are possible, possibly as natural outbreak or radioactive waste by products of using telchak radiation in making the devices. Kull warriors are effectively zombies strapped in to suit of armour and programmed through the goauld inside (overwriting the normal brainless zombification) to serve anubis.

[Gormagon]

Sorry about the Adnihilo. There are just many things that it would make sense for them to have done or made.


Anyway, I thought of another zombie option, non corporeal life forms taking over corporeal bodies. Beings of gas, or neural energy or something.

[thekillman]

Well Naquadriah is a variant of Naquadah that was much more power and got a new name.

it's never truly explained what it is, but it's sufficiently different to be an entirely different element and not an isotope.

Have to say Im getting bored of the Adnihlo just being chipped in for no reason. Can you stop using them please, they are not in this fleet and if you want to use them, go back to 2.0 and use them there. On the Zombie note, the Sarcofagus and Telchak devices did reanimate dead tissue and to varying degree produce a zombie like effect. In terms of SG zombies are possible, possibly as natural outbreak or radioactive waste by products of using telchak radiation in making the devices. Kull warriors are effectively zombies strapped in to suit of armour and programmed through the goauld inside (overwriting the normal brainless zombification) to serve anubis.

i was kind of thinking along a very different kind of zombie. you know, aside from the "radiation did it" or "virus did it". i was thinking of something so much further

So, exotopes, how many exotons does your average naquadah nucleus have?

Then we can have naquadah-124 and naquadah-125, exotons.<Just examples.

impossible to say.


plus that notation is already used for neutrons.

Anyway, I thought of another zombie option, non corporeal life forms taking over corporeal bodies. Beings of gas, or neural energy or something.

uhm... no not what i was thinking

[immhotep]

Sorry about the Adnihilo. There are just many things that it would make sense for them to have done or made.

I know! I created them remember. In the old fleets the Adnihlo were responsibile for many of these things, but this is not the old fleets and I dont plan on putting the adnihlo back in and if I ever do they will go through a bit revise and be a much more developed race by this point. As you say they have alot of potential but not at this stage in the fleet reset.

i was kind of thinking along a very different kind of zombie. you know, aside from the "radiation did it" or "virus did it". i was thinking of something so much further.

Anyway, I thought of another zombie option, non corporeal life forms taking over corporeal bodies. Beings of gas, or neural energy or something.

Well the stargate universe has already got two preexisting contexts for zombies, one major one which is a radiation based and a couple of other goauld based ones such the blank slates by Egeria, and the Wraith 'gift' as well as the prior sodan zombie thing. If you dont mind, im gunna do some work on it and might do a halloween special fleet zombie story. Could fancy that lol

[Gormagon]

Hey killman, I am finishing the Kiron articles as best I can. As of this moment I am working on the cloaking, inertialess drives, and communications.

What is your zombie idea?

[immhotep]

Not sure yet, gotta work on it

[Gormagon]

Code for there is non.

[thekillman]

my zombie idea is a bit more grandeur than "just" a virus.


the idea is such: the Thalian planet has been struck by a strange plague perhaps as much as a decade ago. the plague was microbial, infecting everything from humans to animals. the recently dead were infused with new life as the microbes kind of got the stuff to run on basic mode, but mostly brain damage was so great the person itself was lost. the rabid creatures however were unsustainable, but something far greater was happening. quickly, the microbe was evolving at a rate simply not natural. it quickly assimilated native tissue and DNA and began to rewrite life and the ecosystem at it's basic level. in fact, the base cells responsible evolved not on a genetic level, but in stead quickly unspooled a genetic programming, specializing, adapting and changing itself from a mother strain to a billion different ones.

the world we visit has been under siege from the organism and while basic zombiekind has been absorbed and used for raw materials, a new group of "mutant zombies" has taken over to recreate the ecosystem on an unprecedented scale