Against Pete

[stargate barbie]

hey i have an idea, if they really want to be degrading to sam, why don't they just get rid of pete, because i can think of about 3 people, and all of them are on line, who actually like him, and just give her one of those galactic cheerleader outfits that marina sirtis wore in the pilot of ST:TNG? i could think of about 4 or 5 people who'd be happy then, and even i'd be happy-er. not quite as bad as the way pete makes her look, but its a start.

[stargate barbie]

you go, you bum you. (BTW - Loved the "occupation" you put in your profile.)

ah yes. its all true. in fact my full occupation title is "lazy bum".

[stargate barbie]

ok. thats it, i've had it!
what the hell is the deal here!?! oh by the way, spooilers for season 8
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he's back AGAIN!?!?!?!? WTF!
i'm glad that i don't get season 8 until september, at least this way i get to decide if i'm going to bother watching a show that obviously has no respect for its fans.
all i hear about from TPTB is how much people hate pete, but he's such a nice guy really. are they confusing the actor with the character?
if a character is so hated, that its all TPTB can talk about, then why on earth would they bring him back repeatedly!?! and in such a positive light? surely if they liked the actor all that much, they'd bring him back but make him evil or something.

has anyone else seen that interview with DDL? i am soo not impressed with the course this show is taking. why would i bother wathcing a new one made by the same people, if this is how they deal with unfavoured situations? maybe we should have all said that we would hate to keep jonas and daniel, then they would have kept them both.
ooh ooh, lets all tell them how much we like chocolate! that should get us plenty of that too!

[prion]

....
i'm glad that i don't get season 8 until september, at least this way i get to decide if i'm going to bother watching a show that obviously has no respect for its fans.

I'll probably get Zatted for this, but the show cannot please all the fans. It's impossible. All shows are made for the largest possible audience they can get (as that' show they get advertising revenue). The show isn't here to please any specific fan 'group.'

I think we're darned lucky they're aren't shooting for Scifi's demographic - 18-to-34 year old males, whom studios feel just want to watch bombs and boobs (we'll try to forget that aberration called Tok'ra Barbie).

[dipsofjazz]

I'll probably get Zatted for this, but the show cannot please all the fans. It's impossible. All shows are made for the largest possible audience they can get (as that' show they get advertising revenue). The show isn't here to please any specific fan 'group.'

I think we're darned lucky they're aren't shooting for Scifi's demographic - 18-to-34 year old males, whom studios feel just want to watch bombs and boobs (we'll try to forget that aberration called Tok'ra Barbie).

Ahh, but you are forgetting that the usual demographic for sci fi is the young lads, but it is clearly shown here that there is a big cross-section of people that watch Stargate....many of whom are of the female persuasion!!!!

[stargate barbie]

I'll probably get Zatted for this, but the show cannot please all the fans. It's impossible. All shows are made for the largest possible audience they can get (as that' show they get advertising revenue). The show isn't here to please any specific fan 'group.'

I think we're darned lucky they're aren't shooting for Scifi's demographic - 18-to-34 year old males, whom studios feel just want to watch bombs and boobs (we'll try to forget that aberration called Tok'ra Barbie).

and i understand this, but one might have noticed that when anise was brought into the show and the fans did not respond as was probably hoped for, she did not last terribly long. the reaction to anise was not anywhere near as bad as the reation to pete, and yet, return he does. repeatedly.

until very recently stargate has catered more than adequetely for its large fanbase, and has kept its vastly differerent audiences happy or at least satisfied for the most part. this is not the case anymore, especially regarding pete. most people either couldn't give a monkeys if he's there or not, or they absolutely cannot stand the character. i have heard of very few people who actually think he belongs in the show, and is actually good for both the show and for sam.

as far as i'm concerned he can stay, as long as they find a logical place for him within the arc and theme of the show, and as long as he is not romantically involved with samantha carter. the reason for that last part is that i don't think that it sends any kind of positive message to anyone, male or female, to show a main character and even a role model, allowing themselves to be treated that way. the things pete did in chimera are, in my opinion, not at all the way a decent person should be treated. most shows would have used that kind of behaviour in a character to put out a moral message or something like that. they would have used that kind of behaviour as a way to show people that they need not be treated that way. chimera showed that if you behave as pete did to someone, you get anything you want and more.
if you pressure someone enough, and even slightly guilt them, that person will sleep with you. and hey while your at it, why don't you throw a hissy fit the next morning right there in the bed and storm off for absolutely no good reason, right. after. you. sleep with the person you claim to want a future with, leaving them completely miserable and pining in bed after you, still nekkid!
oh and hey, if you don't return her calls, and use your official (federal) channels for your nosey little reasons, and then follow her around a bit, thats fine, so long as you get injured, just for those sympathy votes, and to make sure she forgets what an ass you've been to her.
oh and while your at it? don't forget to throw in a bit of that condecending attitude. people love that. ooh ooh, and whine as much as possible to get your way. you'll get away with it if you make a few jokes.

ah yes. dating 101, by stargate.
see. i just can't stop the ranting and the raging when it come to this topic.

anyway. i'm not saying that they should do things to please any one particular fan 'group'. they should be trying to please the masses. there was quite a big fan group who didn't want them to get rid of jonas. they still got rid of him. the show was still good. there is a specific fan 'group' that doesn't like daniel jackson. tptb still brought him back, because most people do like him, and did want him back, and the rest put up with it because its not going to ruin the show, or change it for the worse, considering he was there all along anyway.
i may not be explaining this very well, so if there is any confusion or misunderstanding as to my meaning, i'll try to clarify.

now. was that more painful than a zatting or less?

[binkpmmc]

I think you did a pretty good job explaining where you stand and I tend to agree with most of what you said. I just got into a huge mess over at the "This Can't Be Happening" thread over one of the points you made in an earlier post - are TPTB confusing the character with the actor and your point about the outcry over Anise is well made in relation to that. I have always tried to separate the characters from the actors and try to be respectful with my comments and questions and I absolutely believe that the actors should not be attacked because of what people may think about their character. However, I also believe that open, honest, respectful questions can be asked of the actors, and TPTB, in relation to the characters regardless of whether they are all nice and fun questions with positive feedback or whether they are questions that raise concerns and issues that may be "harder" questions to answer and may contain some negative feedback.

The same should hold true in the opposite as well, keep the actor separate from the character. I think DDL sounds like a very nice, sweet person from what people who have met him say and I am sure if I met him I would like him too - that, however, will not change my feelings about the pete character - he was just bad, disrespectful, dishonest and immature (IMO very poorly conceived and very, very poorly written).

It does seem, as you say, that TPTB, and others involved with the show, realize that there has been quite a huge ourpouring against pete, and for many different reasons as there are different areas of the fan base that reacted negatively for different reasons - it is just not one specific group of fans who reacted negatively. Bascially I feel they are throwing it in the faces of any fan who expressed displeasure with pete and I think part of why they are doing that is because when some of the fandom went to an extreme and called for his death and/or referred to him as a "stalker" and TPTB, and others involved in the show, got angry about that.

What TPTB, and others in the show have failed to acknowledge is that there are plenty of fans who disliked pete for legitmate reasons and expressed that dislike in a very even-handed, fair and honest fashion but, at least thus far, no one involved in the show has chosen to address those concerns - just as they pick and choose which aspects of the behaviour to address, as if they were singular actions that are not interrelated, they also pick and choose which portions of the negative reactions to respond to so they can use it to justify pete's continued presence.

IMO what TPTB, and others on the show, are saying to any fan who disliked pete is, because there were people who went to the extreme and called for his death and referred to him as a stalker you made us mad so he will be back - take that! They use that negative extreme to focus on and in the process completely and totally ignore the more moderate, even-handed group of fans who disliked pete. I think this is because those invovled in the show will not, or cannot, find a way to address or respond to the more moderate questions and concerns we have raised about pete's overall second half behaviour.

[Liebestraume]

1 - yes
2 & 3 - no

She has also made comments about not wanting Sam to be whining or pining (I belive those are the actual words she used) about a man.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[Liebestraume]

Trying again - hope this works. ...

Not only did it work, but that was a most passionate and eloquent response. On the legitimacy of your concerns, you are preaching to the choir as far as I am concerned (see my prior posts). I just think it would be most effective to take them directly to the writers/show-runners.

The writers are ultimately responsible for characterization, regardless how much input AT has. Coming into S7, for instance, do we know if she actually said "I want Sam to become more rounded," or "I want her to get a new fella," or "I want her new fella to behave in such-and-such way"? (And, yes, I've just read those two interviews. ) I think Pete's real problem is that he seemed to exude an arrogant sense of entitlement where Sam's life was concerned, which is something a guy (writer) may not be sensitive about. It would have been nice to think that AT could champion our collective image of a strong woman, but IMHO that would be giving her too much credit, power, or responsibility.

All that is not to say AT shouldn't be asked of those questions (or any questions, for that matter). By all means, ask if anyone is so inclined. Just please excuse me when another article addressing the "controversy" ends up enthusing about Sam's "personal life."

[SG1Poz]

I could deal with that if I thought he'd make her happy.

But go back and play the second half of Chimera again from the moment he left the bed up until the last scene she seem miserable IMO.

Plus how can you have a reltionship with someone who doesn't trust you when you say 'drop it'

he showed her no TRUST and no RESPECT, those are the main reason I don't like Pete.

However, For The Record: I do *NOT* want Pete dead.

I also do *not* want dead. I've *played* with others about it on another list but I don't think Sam even as strong as she is, could take another boyfriend hit with the Black Widow's Curse. I'd like to see Sam innitiating a nice kick in the butt break-up sending him head over heels rolling back down to Denver! No , really, I don't want him dead .

SG-1Poz

[binkpmmc]

Thank you Liebestraume. I did indeed send my concerns with pete's behaviour, and my reasons for such, to certain PTB and others involved in the show but as yet have no response. I took to writing many of the posts I have here about pete's behaviour after hearing that Ms. Tapping does indeed visit once in awhile and obviously we know Mr. Mallozzi visits as he has posted here so I thought perhaps on the off-chance that one or both, or even someone else who monitors the inet for the show, may see them and choose to respond from what they see here as I am not at all sure I will get any response to my letters, and tend to think I won't. I know it is a long shot but several of TPTB have made reference over the years to things that have been said on the inet so at some points they, or others, are reading it so I just thought . . . .

As I have stopped watching the show I do think I will also stop reading the articles as it does seem they are all really about the same things anymore - the focus has changed and the stories are going away from the things I liked about the show in the first place and focusing more on earth based stories and more on the romances of each of the characters and, for me, that's just not sci-fi and not the reasons I watched to begin with so for all these reasons, as well as the pete mess, I pretty much will leave Stargate to it's own devices.

I still cannot decide if I will leave the forum altogether or just go back to lurking, which is mostly what I did before this whole pete thing got me riled up. To be honest, prior to Chimera I just watched the show and enjoyed it and visited the boards because I enjoyed reading them, but didn't really post anything. The pete behaviour and what it did to the character of Carter is what prompted me to get more involved in the boards and start posting. I was so shocked and disappointed at what they did to the Carter character with chimera that I really needed to vent and to find out if I was the only one who disliked pete for the reasons I have expressed - glad to see I am not the only one and that there are indeed plenty of other fans who feel about pete's behaviour the way I do.

[binkpmmc]

I do not know about anyone else here but I have to ask because I am starting to feel like I am supposed to feel guilty about disliking pete because some people went to the extreme in their comments about pete (and some crossed the line and offended Mr. DeLuise in the process). It seems to me that people who had legitimate reasons for disliking pete and who chose to express them in a respectful, moderate, even-handed way are being swept up into the contingent of fans who went to the extreme and are now being criticized along with those who were extreme in their comments. I for one think this is unfair and maybe I am the only one who feels this way but I do and I wanted to check with the group on this thread. Mr. DeLuise is a grown man in a very tough business I would assume he has been through this type of thing before and can handle it. Do not misunderstand me, anyone who wished hurtful things for, or made personal, derogatory comments about Mr. DeDluise was over the line. I agree 100% that feelings for a character must be kept separate from the actor playing the character, on the other hand I also believe feelings about an actor should be kept separate from the character.

I am sure that Mr. DeLuise is a very nice person and that everything that people who have had the good fortune of meeting him say about him is true. I am also sure that if I were to meet him I would like him however, that would not, and should not, affect the way I feel about the pete character and his behaviour.

I have been thinking about this also in relation to the way TPTB, and others involved in the show, have been addressing the pete issue. Thus far they have only chosen to acknowledge the extreme faction of fans who called for pete's death and referred to him as a stalker and to be honest, I have felt that TPTB, and others, have also swept all people who dislike pete into this extreme group because they have not acknowledeged at all that there are actually people out here who dislike pete for legitimate reasons and have been respectful in the way they have addressed the situation. I also notice that almost every time the pete issue is addressed by TPTB, or others involved in the show, Mr. DeLuise and his personal character are mentioned as if becuase he is a nice, sweet guy that is supposed to make me believe that pete too is a nice, sweet guy. Somehow it does not work that way for me as the actor and the character are indeed separate entities - they are not the same thing.

[joshing123]

I think it's unfortunate that people are not separating the actor & the character, but there are always some people with reality issues. In the letters I’ve sent and all my comments here & elsewhere I made sure to specifically express my opinion of the character. I don't think I even mentioned the actor. If I make a personal comment, it’s about the people who wrote him & somehow can’t see what a jack$$ he was.

Unfortunately, it also seems to me at least that AT has taken the negative comments personally on behalf David? DeLuise. Maybe that’s why she’s pushing for him so much. It’s very unfortunate because he is such a terrible character & the relationship reflects so badly on Sam as a character.

Speaking of - I was watching I Love the 90s & wasn't he in Wayne's World?

[jjj2046]

I also notice that almost every time the pete issue is addressed by TPTB, or others involved in the show, Mr. DeLuise and his personal character are mentioned as if becuase he is a nice, sweet guy that is supposed to make me believe that pete too is a nice, sweet guy. Somehow it does not work that way for me as the actor and the character are indeed separate entities - they are not the same thing.

Apprently if the actors are nice likeable people any character they play must be likeable also. Based on that logic I guess all the actors playing the bad guys must be horrible human beings since it's ok to dislike them.

[Madeleine]

I do not know about anyone else here but I have to ask because I am starting to feel like I am supposed to feel guilty about disliking pete because some people went to the extreme in their comments about pete.

[snipped bit]

I have been thinking about this also in relation to the way TPTB, and others involved in the show, have been addressing the pete issue. Thus far they have only chosen to acknowledge the extreme faction of fans who called for pete's death and referred to him as a stalker and to be honest, I have felt that TPTB, and others, have also swept all people who dislike pete into this extreme group because they have not acknowledeged at all that there are actually people out here who dislike pete for legitimate reasons and have been respectful in the way they have addressed the situation.

Flashback moment! It was exactly the same with Jonas! Plenty of people disliked Jonas for legitimate reasons, and yet were made to feel guilty for it - lumped as rabid danielites by some PTBs, and effectively told that it didn't matter that they disliked Jonas, after all they were danielites. Loads of people wrote nice letters asking for Daniel's return, and yet for a long long time TPTB only ever acknowledged the 'hate mail'.

I do feel for you, Binkpmmc. And I have to say that I don't think it likely that you'll see *your* viewpoint addressed by any PTB as long as they have the 'hate mail' thing to talk about, going by precedent. Which is a pity. I think the best you'll get is understanding and discussion from other *fans*. I think that counts for a lot though, it can be nice to know that people feel the same way or that those who don't feel the same don't consider you a looney .