Original Starship Design Thread

[boberth2o]

matemathics and screencap scalings aside you do see that it fits right? everything we have seen on the show fits the 295m scale perfectly everything from hallway sizes, people, 302 exiting and parked in the bays this scale even fits with the interior to outside shot in unending where mitchell say "oh really what about that" to carter and the view changes to the ori beam. frankly i trust what i can see with my own eyes and the 295 scale relly does make sense and IMO counting pixls from screencaps cant compare as they are eiteher scaled up or down depending on the CG department needs for that particular episode.

Show me your work. If unending is your catalyst for scaling then show us. Right now your just saying that it is, and there is no proof that it is.
Never the less when I used pixels for your model scale it was to show your error in sizes. I used the proportions of the model not the scale. The proportions stay the same throughout the show so scale doesn't matter.

Ok I'm going to use your top view of your interpretation of the Daedalus to a schematic in the show. Click Me. If I make your width the same as in the schematic then your ship is way too short with a relative error of 21%. If I make your length the same as in the schematic then your size is way too wide with a relative error of 31%. Your proportions are off so how can you scale the show model when yours is off so much?

BTW the CGI companies have not said they resize the ships for cinematic purposes it's speculation by the fans.

and i dont understand how you can have it at 600m the windows would be over 3m tall and all viewports would be huge. and i didnt scale it after a 302 i scaled it after a 170cm 2d human and if i place it on several diffrent locations around the ship everything looks spot on.

It all depends if you have your proportions correct. Show me that the windows are 3 meters tall don't just claim that they are and expect me to believe it.

and when comparing it to real world naval vessels a 600m 304 is ludicrus so i stand by my debunked statement and i am now forever a believer of a 295m scale for the 304s.

It doesn't have to be practical for a science fiction show. The key word being fiction. Regardless 600 meters is practical if you have an inertial dampener with at least a 50% reduction rate. Further more they use Trinium, and I from the show is says that it is 100 times lighter than steel and stronger than steel all at the same time. That would greatly influence the structure needed to build a large ship like the Daedalus. It's possible in Science Fiction.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

It just seems that by wanting the ship to be 500, 600 (or even 700m long! ) you're overcompensating for something..

All that really matters is that the ratios between length, width and height are accurate. The model can then be scaled to whatever size it needs to be.

[thekillman]

ALX, you indeed proved something: in the shots of overlooking the deadalus from the inside, or from outside inwards, it's 300m long.

in a DIRECT CANONICAL COMPARISON, a 304 is 1.1km.

in a common spacebattle, it's about 600/700 meters long or more.

in a common 304 outside shots, it's about 500 meters long


as long as you say how big the Deadalus is scaled to when using it in a comparison, it does not matter.

[lordofseas]

Show me your work. If unending is your catalyst for scaling then show us. Right now your just saying that it is, and there is no proof that it is.
Never the less when I used pixels for your model scale it was to show your error in sizes. I used the proportions of the model not the scale. The proportions stay the same throughout the show so scale doesn't matter.

Ok I'm going to use your top view of your interpretation of the Daedalus to a schematic in the show. Click Me. If I make your width the same as in the schematic then your ship is way too short with a relative error of 21%. If I make your length the same as in the schematic then your size is way too wide with a relative error of 31%. Your proportions are off so how can you scale the show model when yours is off so much?

BTW the CGI companies have not said they resize the ships for cinematic purposes it's speculation by the fans.




It all depends if you have your proportions correct. Show me that the windows are 3 meters tall don't just claim that they are and expect me to believe it.



It doesn't have to be practical for a science fiction show. The key word being fiction. Regardless 600 meters is practical if you have an inertial dampener with at least a 50% reduction rate. Further more they use Trinium, and I from the show is says that it is 100 times lighter than steel and stronger than steel all at the same time. That would greatly influence the structure needed to build a large ship like the Daedalus. It's possible in Science Fiction.

All that needs to be done is trick cinematography. Having something so in the forefront, that the background can't be measured in proportion.

[boberth2o]

From your statement, what I got was the windows were out of scale to the rest of the model. This doesn't prove anything.
I could half the size of the window in my room right now, wouldn't make the room twice the size.

What I was getting at is that the windows are not the proper size. Therefore the room is off and the person inside that room it off. I granted him the leniency that the room and everything in it is staying proportional to the windows. So if the windows are larger than in the show then the size of the ship gets decreased considerable. Especially at that small scale situation. So if we scales up his windows to be cannon then he will get a larger number for ship size.
If you want to say that the windows are just smaller then thats just conjecture because we've never seen someone in that room.

Also, discrepancies in the angle of the shot, and angle of the from and slight differences between the models will give you inaccurate figures.

Not if you use the same spot on both ships directly above and below the reference point because they are proportional to each other. Parallax doesn't matter here.

Look, it doesn't matter really. Its a fictional ship that doesn't exist.
Axl has provided the most concrete evidence to date for his scalings. It may not be perfect, but it beats taking shots from a show notorious for its scaling errors, and trying to make sense of it to fit your own argument.

Nothing personal you realise, just my POV.

It's an interpretation, that is not concrete. Concrete is a non-parallax view from the show with a proper reference length. You cant say that it's what the shows model is, it's what his model it. That is all conjecture.

The only way to get the most accurate scaling is from the show, it's the only cannon evidence of what the actual size is. Alx's model cannot be accepted because there is no reference to the show other than the look of the model. Last I don't use scaling to fit into my argument, I do them to find the actual size.

"Look, it doesn't matter really. Its a fictional ship that doesn't exist."

Then why do you care to put yourself in this conversation?

[boberth2o]

It just seems that by wanting the ship to be 500, 600 (or even 700m long! ) you're overcompensating for something..

All that really matters is that the ratios between length, width and height are accurate. The model can then be scaled to whatever size it needs to be.

Thats rude, I don't want it to be any of those, I want to show Alx the flaws in his scale.

All that needs to be done is trick cinematography. Having something so in the forefront, that the background can't be measured in proportion.

Thats why my scales have the images closes to parallel projection. I try to eliminate the parallax. In my latest Prometheus scale I used perspective and mathematics so perspective can be disregarded and scales can be accurate.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

But since you both claim to be right and neither of you will back down...

And the last time this debate came up it was agreed that because the 304 is used to compare the scale of our new ships (which is what this thread is really about ) a scale for a 304 would be set based on the average between the various scales people have come up with.

And is it really so important to you to prove Alx wrong?

[titan_hq]

"Look, it doesn't matter really. Its a fictional ship that doesn't exist."

Then why do you care to put yourself in this conversation?

It's in my nature to argue. Whether I care about the topic or not. Have you not noticed that?

[boberth2o]

But since you both claim to be right and neither of you will back down...

And the last time this debate came up it was agreed that because the 304 is used to compare the scale of our new ships (which is what this thread is really about ) a scale for a 304 would be set based on the average between the various scales people have come up with.

And is it really so important to you to prove Alx wrong?

It doesn't have to do with proving him wrong although thats what it has gotten to. One of my pet peeves is when someone claims something as fact when there is no credible support (i.e. cannon scales to base your 302 reference for the Daedalus). I want it to be correct.

It's in my nature to argue. Whether I care about the topic or not. Have you not noticed that?

Haha it's been some time since I've seen you argue so I guess I've forgot.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

It doesn't have to do with proving him wrong although thats what it has gotten to. One of my pet peeves is when someone claims something as fact when there is no credible support (i.e. cannon scales to base your 302 reference for the Daedalus). I want it to be correct.



Haha it's been some time since I've seen you argue so I guess I've forgot.

In that case can we let the debate drop? It's never going to end until either they build a 1:1 scale 304 or one of you get into a position where you can get hold of the original plans.

Alx has just as much chance of being right as you have. You have both provided 'evidence' that you feel proves your own measurements correct. And since this has now descended into a never ending battle between you and Alx is it really worth keeping it going merely for the sake of a pet peeve?

[Merlin1701]

Gosh...

I thought we had agreed on a size of 600+m length?

Has anyone scaled an hat'ak...after all we have seen one land on top of the SGC?

[Alx]

@bob your takin way to much of personal offence in this and my intent was not to publish an entire esse on the subject of scale but simply share what i had found during my build of this thing as it has constantly been argued here that a 295m 304 would simply be to small and nothing would fit i proved that "theory" wrong and it was def enough to sway me from being a 600m advocate to beliving what i can see with my own eyes.

anyhoo im not going to argue this with you also why would i lie? and why are you accusing me of lying?
ill send you the model file so you can poke aroung it with your measuring tape all you like if its such a bother to you... ok?

oh what? you are using the bridge 304 schematic screen?? why are you so focused on screenshots put forth by a obviusly inadequate CG department....

@All i did not put my findings out here to argue our bring fuel to an already heated discussion i mearly wanted to show you what i had found so you can make up your own DAMNED minds as i have in believing what i can see not was has been shoved down my throat by a semi retarded CG department... i for one "believe" in the 295m scalings what you belive is up to you.

[Alx]

and Alx is it really worth keeping it going merely for the sake of a pet peeve?

keep going? what are you on about now? i simply put forth my findings i havnt been "pushy" with it at all and ill say again you all are free to "believe" what you want im not arguing or sending waves of hostility towards anyone and your "question" is better directed at Boberth.

Gosh...

I thought we had agreed on a size of 600+m length?

you might have agreed i did no such thing and as i found evidence for the contrary myself i cant agree to the proposturous 600m scale.

as many of you bashed me with "FANWANK"when i first came here 600m 304 = FANWANK IMO and what you want to "believe" is up to each one of you. and frankly i dont care what you belive i just felt like sharing my findings.

[Merlin1701]

not really read through the posts...

from what I can read Alex has made a 304 model which he has scaled smaller than the agreed scale.

quick question for Alex...How thick are your decks, hull and bulkheads?

In my early models I never thought about the thickness of the hull and more importantly thickness of internal walls and floors.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

keep going? what are you on about now? i simply put forth my findings i havnt been "pushy" with it at all and ill say again you all are free to "believe" what you want im not arguing or sending waves of hostility towards anyone and your "question" is better directed at Boberth.

You took half a sentence and made a separate question out of it? It was directed at Boberth.