Fanfic Writers' Virtual Water Cooler

[Choo1701]

*narrows eyes and slowly slides chocolate away from Choo*

Them fightin' wor- actions boy

*narrows eyes*

*Poises hand over holstered Super Soaker*

[mathpiglet]

*uses forklift to move chocolate out of the line of fire*

Good Turkey article. I've discussed some of those points with other writers before. One lovely lady does not like the word 'said' and uses any other word. It's distracting.

[Starfist]

*Beams in a selection of Cakes*

All I have to ask is...
Why a metric half tonne of chocolate...?

[Sealurk]

Because a metric tonne of chocolate would just be ridiculous, of course!

*returns attention to Choo, narrows eyes to 'Spaghetti Western Clint Eastwood' setting*

[Starfist]

*Starts to hear the theme from 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly*

The 'Turkey' article was good. It's got me thinking...

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, I meant to post it here this morning, but in my severely undercaffeinated state, I put it in the Fic Help thread instead. D'oh! So how about I just quote myself:

I'm just going to throw a link out there, because I have to go and do work I actually get paid for and I'm running behind... but give this a read and see if you recognize any of these in your own writing or in stuff you've read. It gave me the urge to go back over my own past work, cringing in dread of what I might find there. (No, I haven't yet succumbed - er - found time yet to act on that urge. But I will.)

The SF Workshop Lexicon: Buzzwords, notions and critical terms of direct use to SF workshops. (In other words, things to watch out for in your writing and that of others. Now all of those most annoying elements have names!)

Now, a request: I know that some of you (in addition to Sealurk, who is doing yeoman's work as my beta) are reading my current fic. It's long, complicated and rife with opportunities for me to commit all manner of literary sins found on that list. At the same time, I am steeped to my eyeballs and beyond in it (no kidding, I worked several hours today cleaning two apartments -- one of my multiple odd jobs -- and spent nearly the entire time working out additional scenes and plot points in my head as I toiled). As a result, I'm quite likely far too close to my own work to recognize some of the instances where I may have committed said sins. So, if any of you lovely readers have noticed these elements in my fic, would you be kind enough to alert me to them, either in an email, via PM or in the story's own discussion thread? If I take note of them now, I can fix them while I'm still writing the story as a whole, and doing so will, with any luck, help to make me even more aware so that I do not continue to commit them as the rest of the story unfolds.

[SaraBahama]

SF & C emailed me an interesting PDF this morning. She was going to post here about it but I think something glitched or she's very busy, so I'm doing it in her stead.
Some of you may have encountered it before, but anyway, it's called the Turkey City Lexicon. I won't say much more, but it makes for interesting reading - I know I'm guilty of several of these things, and used to be guilty of nearly all of them at some point or another!
I suddenly have an uncontrollable urge to break out the red editing pen...
Oh, one last thing:
*beams a half tonne (metric, of course) of various chocolate products in, takes a hundred kilo snack for later*

I read the first few pages and am blushing furiously -I know I have sinned, and I repent!! I'll have to read the rest a little later. I've had writer's block for weeks and I'm afraid I may never write again if I get too much into the document right now. It is a very nice paper, though...thanks for sharing SF and Sealurk (in her stead).

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
*in high squeaky voice* YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO GIVE HIM GREEN!!! D: He doesn't deserve it!!! I was being sarcastic (which doesn't translate well over the interent) because Sealurk was being MEAN!! (okay, he was being, 'sarcastic' as well. ) wub.
Choo
ps: Mmmm. Turkey.

*smiles wickedly to self* always happy to start a little trouble

You know, you try to show concern and support for a fellow human being's troubling medical problem, and this is the thanks you get...
*narrows eyes and slowly slides chocolate away from Choo*
But anyway, we're all missing the bigger picture, the most important and humbling element of this whole sorry affair:
I got green out of it.
BTW, thanks Sara!

You're welcome! *smiling mischievously at Choo*

*uses forklift to move chocolate out of the line of fire*
Good Turkey article. I've discussed some of those points with other writers before. One lovely lady does not like the word 'said' and uses any other word. It's distracting.

I've used 'said', but seem to think I was always taught to vary it so that it wasn't constantly repeated. Darn!

*pulls gallon of pure southern sweet tea from quantum fridge (1 & 1/2 cups sugar per gallon) & sets it on counter to share*

Rewatching 'Divide and Conquer' and picking away at the next chapter of my fic....hoping to break the writer's block.

[SaraBahama]

Oh! I forgot! *puts poster up behind watercooler*

For those who don't know, The Bahamas has underwater caves with vertical entrances called 'blue holes'. The one on the poster here is called the 'Stargate'. I'm SO proud!!

[SF_and_Coffee]

*nods, while sipping sweet tea*

I was taught to vary 'said' as well. I believe that goes all the way back to my creative writing class in high school, if not before. It's also what I'm accustomed to reading, as that seems to be the standard practice in most of the books I read. 'Said' does get used, but along with a host of other words, like 'agreed', 'wondered', 'asked', 'replied', 'suggested'... well, you get the idea.

Where I get paranoid these days is on the use of adverbs to modify 'said' or a similar word. I remember being taught in high school that it's fine to use them on occasion, although you don't want to do it all the time. But lately I almost get the impression that the current prevailing wisdom is not to use them at all in that context, to which my (completely reasonable, IMO) reaction is, "Buh? Why exactly are we throwing out a perfectly good part of the language, here?"

ETA: Sara, that blue hole is awesome!

(And now my brain just tossed up a line at me from 'A Matter of Time', only modified: "Blue holes, wormholes...like old times." Weird writer brain is weird.)

[Crazy Tom]

AM/FM, lol, I'll have to remember that.

[Aragon101]

* Epiphany *

Wow. I'm good with characters, but I totally need a technically minded beta from here on out. The things i miss make me wide eyed with shock.

No more chocolate please, i have like half a small Toblerone at work every day. I'm so ashamed

EDIT: On the "Said" issue, don't be scared of said. You hardly even notice it and actually having alot of adverbs can really really really break teh pacing as the person reading has to read words that they typicallly don't see. I typically dont' even bother with "Said" or it's crazy cousins anymore than needed to be clear, just dive right into the dialogue.

Not using "said"s actually gives it a higher impact i think.

Ivanova stared blankly at the wall as Sheridan walked away, she leaned on the railing behind the C&C and said. "If i live through this job, without completely losing my mind, it'll be a miracle of biblical proportions."

"Well there goes my faith in the almighty." Ivanova turned to face Corwin who gave her a sympathetic face. Ivanova rolled her eyes, straightened her jacket and got back to work.

Just an example since i'm watching that right now

[SF_and_Coffee]

Well, the adverbs don't replace 'said' or its analogues; they modify them. But what you posted as examples of ways to do dialogue without using 'said' are very good. I know I do the same thing; stage action is a very appropriate way of assigning speech to the speaker.

Often I'll follow something of a pattern with this, such as:

1. Stage action -> speech of person A

2. Response speech of person B, identified by stage action immediately following

3. More speech by person A, with attribution only assumed, not given directly

4. Response speech of person B, identified with 'said' or an analogue

5. Another line by person A, attribution via stage action

6. Response speech by person B, attribution by assumption only

But on occasion, an adverb can really add value and tone to the way in which something was said, and I do still use them for that. I guess I've been writing long enough that I figure it's okay to ignore whatever the latest stylistic 'trend' might be and just write in a way that seems at least as clear as the novels I've been reading for the past thirty-odd years, and a style that matches most of them (since that's what I've internalized over all that time anyway). *shrug*

[SaraBahama]

Writing dialogue right now...about *feelings*...it's about to kill me.

May have to change to shoot-em-up just to survive! ACK!

[Skydiver]

I vary my 'said's with
replied
moaned
groaned
whispered
yelled
demanded
answered
shouted

etc

not as a 'let's see how many i can use' but as a short cut to describing a person's feelings at the time.

"Colonel, I can't let you go home tonight," Frasier said, clutching the chart to her chest and crossing her arms.
"Doc," Jack whined. "I feel fine."
"Aahah." She nodded knowingly. "So fine that Teal'c picked you up off that very same floor not ten minutes ago."
"Traitor," Jack growled.
"There are times, O'Neill, when Sholva is a title of honor," Teal'c intoned.

[SaraBahama]

I definitely see the place for variations on 'said' as Skydiver so wisely pointed out...these words sometimes gently convey the mood of the speaker and add to the understanding of the text. The same thing can be said about the averbs that modify them.

Spoiler:

“So she set you free?” she asked. Jack was surprised that she managed to keep the sarcasm out of her voice as she delivered the cliché.
“Something like that,” he replied.
“To tell this other person that you love them?” she asked impassively.

...the modifier helps identify the tone of voice being used in this case.

I have a grammar question! I know I learned this in school, but I'm having a senior moment...

In the following quote:

“She was engaged to someone else. Someone her age. Someone who could give her a normal life. Make her happy,” his tone was flat.

...should the end of the quotation be: "happy." His tone was flat.
or: "happy," he said, his tone flat.
or do I have it correctly written? Or is this just not done and I'm completely in a grammar swamp?

Thanks for not laughing...