Do you think that it is wrong how we treat the Wraith in the series?

[Flyboy]

Well said.

But of course, people will always see them as villains because they're space vampires (prejudice much?). I'd argue that actually, the wraith are also being faced with a small insurgent group of their free range live stock. Of course they're going to want to wipe the Atlantis team out. Them chickens are up to summing!

[MIZA]

well they are trying to kill us??



there is nothing to really reason with them there ?

[pcat]

A quick note.

The Wraith have been eating and torturing humans for atleast 100,00 years with no real changes in patterns

Humans a few thousand years of recorded his with marked progression and evolution of habits and societal trates (hunt and gather vs raising live stock and growing crops, definition of acceptable treatment has evolved in all walks of live.) While humans are far from perfect, there is a clear trend to improve our presence on this planet and how we interact with each other (individual nations -> formation of the UN, world court, etc)

To be clear I am 100% in the Atlantis camp. Wraith have shown themselfs to be a clear an present threat to all of humanity. Todd, while having some admiral traits for a wraith, has shown time and time again to be out for himself (Stealing the treament, using teyla as a false queen to cement his own poer, stealing ZPM to power the clone device, Stealing the D to solve a problem that faced both human and wraith [he had absolutely no proof the Atlantis was involved]

[Flyboy]

A quick note.

The Wraith have been eating and torturing humans for atleast 100,00 years with no real changes in patterns

Humans a few thousand years of recorded his with marked progression and evolution of habits and societal trates (hunt and gather vs raising live stock and growing crops, definition of acceptable treatment has evolved in all walks of live.) While humans are far from perfect, there is a clear trend to improve our presence on this planet and how we interact with each other (individual nations -> formation of the UN, world court, etc)

To be clear I am 100% in the Atlantis camp. Wraith have shown themselfs to be a clear an present threat to all of humanity. Todd, while having some admiral traits for a wraith, has shown time and time again to be out for himself (Stealing the treament, using teyla as a false queen to cement his own poer, stealing ZPM to power the clone device, Stealing the D to solve a problem that faced both human and wraith [he had absolutely no proof the Atlantis was involved]

The wraith don't need a UN. Up until the food shortage they didn't really have inter-faction wars.

[Crazedwraith]

Just a thought, on the Wraith aren't evil; they have to eat humans! They're better than us because we eat animals when we don't have to.

1)We're sapient; animals are not. There is an important distinction.

2) With their level of technology; the wraith in no way have to swoop down on innocent humans in darts and cull them for food. They have giant cloning facilities. They could clone their food. Clone a bunch of brain dead humans to eat. All they would have to do to acheive this was negotiate with the Ancient for ZPMs to clone food of themselves. They didn't they attempted genocide on the Ancients instead.

[ciannwn]

I think it's wrong how the show treats the Wraith. It seems that SGA has to be about running around with guns and big explosions to make Sheppard and co. look heroic. This results in endless excuses to make the Wraith cannon fodder. Why couldn't Keller's treatment have worked properly so Todd could be leading a faction of Wraith who eat normal food? Oh, of course - no excuse to slaughter yet more Wraith in this episode.

[Ouroboros]

The wraith don't need a UN. Up until the food shortage they didn't really have inter-faction wars.

That's also an interesting point to be made in regard to the whole question of them being evil or not. People always try to base their judgements of this on how they interact with their prey, humans. Oh that Wraith scared that human before he ate him, that one seemed to enjoy killing that human etc. This is really to be expected. Humans are a prey/food animal to them. If you were to judge humans similarly based solely on how we interact with the deer hunters shoot, or the cows slaughterhouse workers slaughter then I doubt very much we would come off looking any better.

When you look at how the Wraith treat each other though you get a whole different picture. Up until recently it seems as if their entire species lived completely at peace with one another. They were able to create a galaxy spanning civilization where all the members agreed to cooperate for the good of all the others, hibernating for hundreds of years to replenish food sources so they could all survive, and somehow no one broke the deal for millenia. It's hard for me to imagine humans pulling off something similar on that kind of scale and with the kind of life or death stakes the Wraith faced.

Their society also seems largely if not completely devoid of any kind of Wraith on Wraith crime that isn't war related.

[Jackie]

The humane part of my being dictates to try and solve the issue so both species can live side by side in a utopia society.

But the reality of it is if something is trying to hurt me or my family I'm gonna kill it!

And since the wraith are more advanced technology wise than us, see us as nothing more than food and have a history of back stabbing.

I say nuke 'em.

[NoobTau'ri]

If you were to judge humans similarly based solely on how we interact with the deer hunters shoot, or the cows slaughterhouse workers slaughter then I doubt very much we would come off looking any better.

Yes, but deers and cows are not sentient whilst Humans are. I don't eat meat because the Human digestive system was not designed to handle it properly, but even if meat were perfectly ok for Human physiology I'm still not sure I would eat meat. If I absolutely had to kill sentients to survive, I would committ suicide as I wouldn't be able to live with myself. If people with conscience refuse to eat even non-sentients, then imagine how they would feel about eating sentients?

When you look at how the Wraith treat each other though you get a whole different picture. Up until recently it seems as if their entire species lived completely at peace with one another. They were able to create a galaxy spanning civilization where all the members agreed to cooperate for the good of all the others, hibernating for hundreds of years to replenish food sources so they could all survive, and somehow no one broke the deal for millenia. It's hard for me to imagine humans pulling off something similar on that kind of scale and with the kind of life or death stakes the Wraith faced.

How is this noble? They allow Humans to breed again only so that they can be killed again. Those Humans of Pegasus are born only so that they can sustain the Wraith. And they lived in peace with one another? Lmao...what about the terror they inflict on Humans? It is incredible that they in 10,000 years never attempted to find a "Humane" substitute for Humans, even though there are some Wraiths, like the keeper and her cronies, that were awake at all times.

Their society also seems largely if not completely devoid of any kind of Wraith on Wraith crime that isn't war related.

During the 1930s and WWII, the Nazi Germans had an extremely low rate of crime of German against German, and yet they were rounding up and gasing Jews. I don't think the way Wraith treat each other make up for the way they treat Humans; it actually makes them more odious in my eyes, in the same way that a racist treating his kin kindly while discriminating against those not of his race makes him even more odious.

[FallenAngelII]

The Wraith have been eating and torturing humans for atleast 100,00 years with no real changes in patterns

I'm sorry, they have been torturing humans for 10.000 years? I'd like some sourcing for that "fact". Since when do the Wraith regularly torture humans randomly? Heck, since when do they torture at all?

Because of that one episode where the keeper interrogated Sumner, they now torture humans as some kind of regular practice?

Humans a few thousand years of recorded his with marked progression and evolution of habits and societal trates (hunt and gather vs raising live stock and growing crops, definition of acceptable treatment has evolved in all walks of live.) While humans are far from perfect, there is a clear trend to improve our presence on this planet and how we interact with each other (individual nations -> formation of the UN, world court, etc)

Wah, wah, humans do not have to eat meat to survive, yet we do. The Wraith have to feed off of humans. It would be stupid for them to learn to sympathize with their food.

"Mom, I wanna be a vegetarian!" - "What are you, nuts? You'll die within a week or two!"

Sympathizing with or seeing humans as anything less than livestock could be fatal. If you can no longer stand to feed, you die.

Todd, while having some admiral traits for a wraith, has shown time and time again to be out for himself (Stealing the treament, using teyla as a false queen to cement his own poer, stealing ZPM to power the clone device, Stealing the D to solve a problem that faced both human and wraith [he had absolutely no proof the Atlantis was involved]

I'm sorry, because Todd has shown himself to not be doing what he does out of the goodness of his heart, he has to die?

He's shown himself to be trustworthy, not ratting Atlantis out even after having a fallout with them. Even as an enemy, he didn't tell anyone about Atlantis' whereabouts!

He used Teyla to take over the Queen's hives, but look at what he did after. He tried to use the treatment, just as agreed on. So it's not like just wanted power to take down Atlantis. Eventually, he would've talked the entire alliance into taking the treatment. For selfish reasons? Probably.

But since when is it a crime to be selfish? Since when is it a crime to not risk your life just because?

He had absolutely no proof Atlantis was involved, but the device was on Atlantis (I'm assuming he knew this). And it required the Ancient gene + knowledge to start up, so he assumed it was Atlantis. Was he correct? No.

Should he die for making that false assumption? Also no!

[Lord batchi ball]

I don't think its worng since the Wraith treat there own kind in the same way.

[Crazedwraith]

Wah, wah, humans do not have to eat meat to survive, yet we do. The Wraith have to feed off of humans. It would be stupid for them to learn to sympathize with their food.

"Mom, I wanna be a vegetarian!" - "What are you, nuts? You'll die within a week or two!"

Sympathizing with or seeing humans as anything less than livestock could be fatal. If you can no longer stand to feed, you die.

Yes, if they only had giant cloning facilities, that would enable them to grow their own food, with some tweaking into completely brain dead vegetables.

Oh wait... They do

Wraith don't need to terrorise the galaxy and cull the peoples that inhabit it. All they had to do was 10,00 years ago make a deal with the ancients: You give us ZPMs to clone ourselves food: We won't war with you to the edge of extinction. Sound good?

[ciannwn]

I don't think its worng since the Wraith treat there own kind in the same way.

Going by that logic it's OK for Wraith to eat humans, then. Humans commit genocide and other atrocities against their own kind. Then there's the wars that humans have fought for thousands of years - evidence goes back to Neolithic times for organised warfare.

http://eserver.org/history/neolithic-war.txt

Finally there have been murders and violent crimes throughout history too.

The Stargate Earth is supposed to be our Earth and we know there are wars on it because Sheppard was in Afghanistan.

PS:

Wraith don't need to terrorise the galaxy and cull the peoples that inhabit it. All they had to do was 10,00 years ago make a deal with the ancients: You give us ZPMs to clone ourselves food: We won't war with you to the edge of extinction. Sound good?

Posted in from another topic because it's relevant here.

We have no idea what happened where the failed negotiation was concerned because TPTB never bothered to tell us. They just wanted some excuse for the Wraith to go to war with the Lanteans so the latter would leave Atlantis for the expedition to find. Everything was left as vague as possible with just a couple of lines from Lantean sources which can hardly be relied on for objectivity.

As for the topic title, 'we' haven't done anything to the Wraith because we're viewers watching it all happen on TV. The writers are the ones who have treated the Wraith badly. A show like Star Trek would have had Todd and his faction eating normal food a long time ago and there'd have been a Wraith story arc where he was trying to get the others to adopt the new lifestyle. All that we get in SGA, though, are pathetic excuses for the expedition members to slaughter Wraith by the dozen because heroism is defined by how many 'bad guys' the main characters can shoot or blow up.

'Infectiion' just made me feel disgusted by SGA's approach. Why did Todd and his crew get a disease when Michael managed to genetically alter himself without any ill effects? The obvious answer to that is because it provided a scenario where Sheppard and co were attacked by crazed drones so they could shoot them.

[FallenAngelII]

Yes, if they only had giant cloning facilities, that would enable them to grow their own food, with some tweaking into completely brain dead vegetables.

Did you see how that cloning facility worked? It wasn't "Stick some DNA into it and watch it go". It was designed specifically to clone Wraith. Who knows, maybe they did try to clone humans, only it didn't work.

We know they have scientists working on ways to "improve" the feeding process. If cloning was viable, they probably would've been doing it, especially now when they are starving.

What can I say? The writers not thinking about it? Who knows.

The PTB just leave too many plot holes. The Wraith are not stupid (unless they are facing the Atlantis expedition in battle, then all bets are off). There's no reason not to clone their livestock, especially at the current moment, when they are starving and dying.

But they don't. So either they are complete idiots with a death wish or it doesn't work. Or the show has bad writers. Take your pick.

[Crazedwraith]

The PTB just leave too many plot holes. The Wraith are not stupid (unless they are facing the Atlantis expedition in battle, then all bets are off). There's no reason not to clone their livestock, especially at the current moment, when they are starving and dying.

Lack of power. They need ZPMs to clone people in any significant quantities, hence why Todd stole one from the Asurans.