Do you think that it is wrong how we treat the Wraith in the series?

[Flyboy]

Yes.

Either that or they die because living would mean thousands upon thousands of human lives lost, humanity in Pegasus continuing to live in fear, and with barely a chance to grow as a species.

Take your pick.

So basically - they're farmers. Could be worse - they could keep Battery Humans.

I see no reason not to fight the wraith, as has been mentioned, it's about survival. But they're not evil. And frankly, I don't see any reason why a wraith like Todd cannot now be trusted any more or less than a human from another planet.

[fumblesmcstupid]

Stargate opens...... a Dart flies over head people start scream grabbing up their kids trying to run from the dart it sweeps up people, my mom and dad my cousin......me.. I am taken taken back to a hive ship....put in a pod.. I call out to my mom and dad....time passes my pod is opened and a wraith steps up pulls his hand back then Slams it down on my chest..I feel my life drain from me...darkness.!

Over the top?

[Flyboy]

Stargate opens...... a Dart flies over head people start scream grabbing up their kids trying to run from the dart it sweeps up people, my mom and dad my cousin......me.. I am taken taken back to a hive ship....put in a pod.. I call out to my mom and dad....time passes my pod is opened and a wraith steps up pulls his hand back then Slams it down on my chest..I feel my life drain from me...darkness.!

Over the top?

It's that or you're kept on a hive ship from birth until one day you follow your little chum down a corridor. He walks out unscathed, you on the other hand, never walk out again.

[FallenAngelII]

Yes.

Either that or they die because living would mean thousands upon thousands of human lives lost, humanity in Pegasus continuing to live in fear, and with barely a chance to grow as a species.

Take your pick.

They feed because they must. We eat animals because we like it. The Wraith cannot survive on anything but feeding off humans (and Ancients). It's not a preference, it's a compulsion.

If some Wraith wish to work with us for a common goal, like, say, cure them of their need to feed, then there's absolutely no reason not to, just because some other Wraith have gone after the expedition, which was what I was arguing against.

Todd and his people wanted to rid themselves of the need to feed, the goal of the expedition.

I see no reason not to fight the wraith, as has been mentioned, it's about survival. But they're not evil. And frankly, I don't see any reason why a wraith like Todd cannot now be trusted any more or less than a human from another planet.

The "He's a liability" (or whatever they said)-line in "Infection" was ridiculous. Todd has had how many months now since "The Lost Tribe", where he had a falling out with Atlantis and assumed they had betrayed him?

And not a single Wraith has come to Atlantis to destroy it. Obviously, Todd isn't going to betray them anytime soon. And this was when they were at odds with each other. Now, they're contemplating letting him attempt to save himself.

And Richard is all "He's a security risk". Yah right.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

They feed because they must. We eat animals because we like it. The Wraith cannot survive on anything but feeding off humans (and Ancients). It's not a preference, it's a compulsion.

If some Wraith wish to work with us for a common goal, like, say, cure them of their need to feed, then there's absolutely no reason not to, just because some other Wraith have gone after the expedition, which was what I was arguing against.

Todd and his people wanted to rid themselves of the need to feed, the goal of the expedition.


The "He's a liability" (or whatever they said)-line in "Infection" was ridiculous. Todd has had how many months now since "The Lost Tribe", where he had a falling out with Atlantis and assumed they had betrayed him?

And not a single Wraith has come to Atlantis to destroy it. Obviously, Todd isn't going to betray them anytime soon. And this was when they were at odds with each other. Now, they're contemplating letting him attempt to save himself.

And Richard is all "He's a security risk". Yah right.

I agree. However, the Wraith do much more than feed. They also hunt for sport, wipe out races that are advanced. So the majority of the Wraith are in fact bad, but not because they have to feed on humans. And yeah, Todd is a security risk, because he could get captured and information stolen from him (look at Midway).

[nx01a]

As long as the Wraith don't bother us, we don't go looking to destroy them or save the hundreds no doubt culled every day. I think that makes us the bad guys.
When we were limited to railguns, we really had no chance against them. With the Asgard plasma beams, however, and TWO ships in Pegasus in season 4, we could have been wiping them out. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. We could have destroyed every single hive, every cruiser, every facility we came across and forced them to take the original retrovirus and become human or be killed.
I want to see the Infection treatment perfected, Wraith eating regular food again and choosing to eat humans, just like how we eat cows and sheep. The Wraith are an enemy that has a biological imperative to kill us. How much cooler would they be if they killed us because we taste so much better than their other food?

[naamiaiset]

The "He's a liability" (or whatever they said)-line in "Infection" was ridiculous. Todd has had how many months now since "The Lost Tribe", where he had a falling out with Atlantis and assumed they had betrayed him?

And not a single Wraith has come to Atlantis to destroy it. Obviously, Todd isn't going to betray them anytime soon. And this was when they were at odds with each other. Now, they're contemplating letting him attempt to save himself.

And Richard is all "He's a security risk". Yah right.

There's always the possibility Todd is biding his time. I agree though, I think if he planned to betray the expedition, he's had numerous opportunities. Plus, it would not make much sense for him to use the therapy on himself/his crew if that's his goal. Although, it wouldn't really surprise me if the writers took that route.

As far as Atlantis' right/wrong treatment of wraith, there doesn't seem to be much of a gray area. Wraith might lose all interest in humans if they were no longer dependant on them, but I doubt that would change their enemy status in the eyes of Atlantis.

[Todds worshipper]

Yes, totally wrong. They are an intelligent species, with untold knowledge and skills. Instead of trying to learn about them - understand them - the Lanteans are always looking for ways to kill them. What makes the Lanteans any different from Wraith? Oh, right...the Wraith kill/killed humans in order to EAT - a necessity - but humans, especially Ronon, kill Wraith out of spite, hatred, anger, and vengeance...in other words, the humans are on the verge of committing genocide, wiping out an entire race/species because they hate them, before they have even come to totally understand them.

And keep in mind, they are always talking about killing Todd, or his alliance, even when he's in the process of TRYING to find an alternative to human feeding. That would be like shooting soldiers dead after they have peacefully surrendered to your army. It's just morally reprehensible.


das

I agree completely. Especially in Season 5. There's one scene in Infection where Todd is more human than Sheppard.

[pcat]

I see a clear distinction between needind to feed and being evil. I have never had a conversation with a cow or any other animal that I would consider eating. I have never been show art, or science, or philosophical discussions of animals. If a talking cows was found that could put forth it's point of view and value to the universe. I would NOT eat it.

It was really about the need to feed. They could minimize the violence and "Farm" there food. It has even been shown that they can clone with sufficent power. They could clone humans and store them for later use. They could also engineer them to be brain dead to minimze suffering. These are the acts of a compassionate species that"just needs to eat".

Then we have wraith. Terror, fear, murder, sport...

Also, the only reason Todd was interested in the treatment was for a competitive advantage over other wraith. Think of the position he would be in if his troops did not waist time collection human cattle. Minimize resistance (from Atlantis and others), they could be self-sufficient and guarentee the safety of there foods (Michaels drug is still out there). I stress that Todd is out for his own benefit. This doe not have to be a bad thing. It is nature to look out for your interests. This does not meen that you have to do it at the expense of others (whick is what most wraith do). Todd is the exception that he can see past his own immediate needs and see's the value in co-existing (wi=hile still putting himself and wraith wraith first)

I see Todd as the kind of wraith a long term mutually beneficial relationship/alliance could be build. The first step would be realizing the limitations of the agreement and his nature while keeping an open mind. (trust but verify type of mentaility)

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I see a clear distinction between needind to feed and being evil. I have never had a conversation with a cow or any other animal that I would consider eating. I have never been show art, or science, or philosophical discussions of animals. If a talking cows was found that could put forth it's point of view and value to the universe. I would NOT eat it.

It was really about the need to feed. They could minimize the violence and "Farm" there food. It has even been shown that they can clone with sufficent power. They could clone humans and store them for later use. They could also engineer them to be brain dead to minimze suffering. These are the acts of a compassionate species that"just needs to eat".

Then we have wraith. Terror, fear, murder, sport...

Also, the only reason Todd was interested in the treatment was for a competitive advantage over other wraith. Think of the position he would be in if his troops did not waist time collection human cattle. Minimize resistance (from Atlantis and others), they could be self-sufficient and guarentee the safety of there foods (Michaels drug is still out there). I stress that Todd is out for his own benefit. This doe not have to be a bad thing. It is nature to look out for your interests. This does not meen that you have to do it at the expense of others (whick is what most wraith do). Todd is the exception that he can see past his own immediate needs and see's the value in co-existing (wi=hile still putting himself and wraith wraith first)

I see Todd as the kind of wraith a long term mutually beneficial relationship/alliance could be build. The first step would be realizing the limitations of the agreement and his nature while keeping an open mind. (trust but verify type of mentaility)

Well, there is more to the Wraith than just feeding. They control the galaxy, and destroyed races that were of no benefit to them. The Wraith are still evil. Todd is just one exception. Yes, of course, you will always have people who are just violent and have no conscience. But humanity as a whole is not like that. The Wraith are. Todd had a long time to get out of the Wraith mindset. Remember, he was held prisoner by Koyla for a long time. If all the wraith cared about was feeding, they wouldn't have runners or worshippers. In Seasons 1 and 2, the Wraith were portrayed as being primarily hunger-driven. Now, given episodes like The Queen, Broken Ties, and Spoils of War, the Wraith are known to be equally power-driven. It would also be very hard for me to eat something I knew could talk or at least communicate to me, in a way that I could understand. The Wraith wiped out many of the nonhuman advanced races that existed in Pegasus, including the Ancients. Why? Because they wanted the galaxy, to control and for the humans.

Even if the Wraith received the treatment and it worked, they'd still try to dominate the galaxy and prevent advanced races from developing. The only thing that would be different would be that they wouldn't feed on humans. They might even still try to get to Earth, or try to restore their feeding ability without eliminating their digestive systems.

[pcat]

I totally agree. The wraith have been shown to be evil through there actions, not just eating people.

the point I was making was that just needing to eat people would not justify there actions. It is everything else that makes them evil, including knowing that there food source is intelligent.

[jenks]

I am yet to witness the Wraith do anything more evil than Human beings have been known to do to each other on Earth.

[Todd's Pet]

I am yet to witness the Wraith do anything more evil than Human beings have been known to do to each other on Earth.

And I think that just about sums it all up.
Much respect for that susinct comment!

[Heqet]

Saying that we should exterminate every Wraith in existence because they need to feed on humans to survive is like saying we should kill every tiger on earth because they need to hunt other animals. It doesn't make any sense. It is the way of nature, and if humans are not at the top of the food chain, then so be it. It does not excuse anything done to the Wraith.

[FallenAngelII]

I agree. However, the Wraith do much more than feed. They also hunt for sport

So do humans. Also, they barely hunt. When Ronon was saved, there were only 7 runners. So it's not like the entire race hunts for sport or that they do it very often. It's not even common since, let's repeat, there were only seven runners. That's seven runners for close to sixty hives (at that point)!

Now how many humans hunt for sport vs. 7 billion humans again?

It's practiced by very few, as opposed to humans hunting animals for sport, which I hear is pretty common, with fathers taking their prepubescent sons out into the woods to do.

wipe out races that are advanced.

Self-preservation. If you could only survive on cows and a group of cows suddenly became too dangerous to be kept alive, say they advanced to such a stage where they invent cow machine guns or if they contract a deadly disease, what would you do?

You kill them all so that you can survive. Heck, humans do it all the time!

Mad cow disease, avian flu, whatever. A group of animals contract a disease which could somehow hurt humans should we ingest their meat? We kill them and burn their bodies!

Why? Is it to save the other cows, chickens and whatnot? No. It's so that they won't spread their diseases to other animals, thus tainting our food supply. It's happening right now in Norway, in fact.

Some kind of worm is infesting a flock of foxes and some hunter has petitioned the government to kill them all because the worms can spread to man's best friend, the dog. One dog has reportedly already contracted it! Horrible, horrible!

Now, if it had been a flock of, I don't know, seagulls, whose disease was only deadly to seagulls, would anyone have cared?

And we don't even have to eat meat.

Wraith have to feed to survive. It's their only option. So it's self-preservation (and justified such) to kill off entire planets when they grow advanced enough to challenge the Wraith.

So the majority of the Wraith are in fact bad

Because a select few hunt for sport (because I just invalidated all of your arguments besides the sports one)?

And yeah, Todd is a security risk, because he could get captured and information stolen from him (look at Midway).

So is any human with information regarding Atlantis. He's no more a security risk than any of them. In fact, he's much less of one since he's so powerful at the moment, he's much less likely to get captured or anything.

Introspection, people! The majority of "crimes" users here on Gateworld accuse the Wraith of is true for humans as well and it's much worse for us to commit said "crimes" since we're not dependent on animals to survive!

Sure, it'd be more of a hassle to eat vegetarian/vegan and take vitamin supplements, but it'd be just that, more of a hassle. We could do it.

The Wraith can't. Anything "bad" they do to their food is just in the name of self-preservation. People just need to analyze the situation a bit more. The writers actually did something right in characterizing the Wraith the way they did. They're no true villains who kill just for fun. In fact, we've never actually seen any Wraith kill just for fun.

They're villains in some aspects, yes. They are enemies of humans, yes. But they're no Goa'uld, Ori or Replicators (or Asuran). But some people seem to read pure malice into anything they ever do, judging them as evil animals who all need to die.