S5: Critique and Contemplations

[TameFarrar]

Hi Folks

Since we all seem to be gathered around the bar and someone is kindly restraining whomever it was that suggested Kumbaya (buy the restrainer a beer please )
Can we take a moment to remember that when the discussion begins to get "Personal" ya'all have two options.

1- take it into PM and hash it out in there
2- get up from your computer and take a walk away from your keyboard.

As you can see neither of those options allow for anyone to hash out their personal dispute with each other ON the thread. While we can and do appreciate that many can do so in a decent and civil manner, its much like watching a fight/heated personal discussion break out when you are at friends party. Its hard to turn away from because its right there in the middle of the room and most of the guests are embarrassed. However no one wants to say anything for fear of having the wrath turned on them or worse be shunned by any and all who derive pleasure from rubber-necking into others personal issues. The problem here is that while most can be civil many others can not and so ........

We have a rule that personal issues and disputes are to go off thread, period. In what way is up to you. It can be PM, email, carrier pigeon, Morris code or any other form of communication that does not involve the use of a public thread also keep in mind any form of communication utilized on GW is subject to our Respect your fellow member rule

So folks, please remember to discuss and debate the OPINIONS themselves on the threads but if you have an issue with the person behind it, take that up in a private way.

Now can someone tell me why I have YET to get my drink around this place

Thanks
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Ok, I know alot of this has been discussed, but I'm five episodes in and thought I'd give a bit of a summary of what I thought of the episodes.

Search and Rescue- Pretty awesome episode, gets things going again, everybody has a moment (yeah, including Teyla and Ronon!). It felt like a classic, fun episode. Not the best season opener ever, but enough to get you excited about the season. 4/5 from me.

The Seed- a drop-off of course, but still decent. It was nice seeing Woolsey be brought in and some of the regular crew struggle a bit with the new boss coming in. Pretty average, but again Ronon and Teyla get moments of their own. I've seen people complain about this being an episode centered around Keller, but honestly I don't see it. She was the "victim to the evil entity" this time around, and she was sitting with organic vines surrounding her while the other people talked. The episode wasn't really about her. Not the best of the episodes, but one of the necessary ones. 3/5

Broken Ties- Ah, the early season Ronon episode! Some really nice acting moments for Momoa, and there are still Teyla moments! Solid episode, exciting, about what you'd expect. Woolsey doing a great job so far. I don't see the Rodney-centricism yet. 3.5/5

The Daedalus Variations- Now THIS was a team episode. It felt like classic SG-1 here. Everyone had something to do, there was action and humor and an interesting story, all of that. Cool new aliens. Oh, and no Keller. My one minor quibble is that Picardo wasn't in the episode, so it felt like Lorne and Sheppard were the ones in charge of the base. Otherwise, fantastic. 4.5/5 (I don't give 5's out easily, otherwise this would be one)

Ghost in the Machine- first off, Michelle Morgan did an absolutely fantastic job as Weir, right down to the mannerisms and the way she talks. Really, really good. I wish Torri had been in the episode, but Morgan's great performance helped make up for it. Teyla got a nice scene with Weir, and Keller doesn't appear AGAIN (I'm sorry, I don't see how this is the Keller show yet). Some pretty interesting ideas in the episode, the most thought-provoking episode of the season (you can talk about friendship, prejudice, trust, all sorts of stuff). Not action packed, but still really good. Some people may say that the ending doesn't really solve anything, and it's a valid point, but I think the journey and Weir's ultimate sacrifice is the really important part. It's a shame this story most likely won't be continued. I'd give it somewhere between 4/5 and 4.5/5

So a long post, to summarize it- Rodney has been "featured" at moments, but it's hardly Rodney-centric so far. Keller has been seen the least of the main cast (other than Woolsey). There's been team moments in every episode. Fun action, humor, and some nice drama so far. Seeing the response to some of the episodes on this thread (and others), I was mildly worried that the whole season was a waste of time, but honestly I don't see that yet.

Now, I realize that most of the complaints have been about later episodes, but with the first quarter of the episode having all episodes that were at least solid (and I'm sure I'll like at least some of the next 15 episodes) the season CAN'T be a total wash, at least for me. Of course everyone is welcome to their opinions and I respect them, but so far I'm thinking that alot of people have exaggerated the issues of season 5 and overlooked alot of the good things about it (at least the good things about the episodes I saw).

I'll say one last time, most of the real complaints have been about the later episodes rather than the earlier ones, so I'll be pretty interested to see how much I agree with the opinions of some of the other posters here.

Season Five kept pretty even with Season Four. I've seen S&R referred to as the last episode of Season Four rather than the first of Season 5. That's understandable. That's not the problem. For me, Season 5 wasn't worse than Season Four, it just wasn't better. And, considering how the series had steadily declined in the quality of writing, it would have been good if the season had been better, given that all arcs from Season three had been closed. Season 1 excelled in the quality of its writing, even though the stories may not have been as interesting. Considering that tptb weren't divided between two shows anymore, the writing quality should have risen. First Contact set up the rogue Asgard so well. It's a shame that The Lost Tribe made them out to be a relatively harmless foe. The rest of the Season was riddled with pretty much uninteresting episodes (especially Outsiders) that did nothing to further the overall series plot. I had been hoping that we'd see a return to the Wraith of Season 1 and Season 2. Unfortunately, Todd has become the only face of the Wraith, one that is more human than even some of the main cast. Gone are the ruthless vampiric enemies of the ancients; they have been replaced by a sometimes sympathy-invoking, desperate species trying to survive, more like the Goauld-serving Jaffa than the goauld themselves. The Wraith have become the victims, not the predators.

The back half of Season 3, Season 4 and Season 5 were plagued by unnecessary character deaths (Kolya, Carson, Weir, Heightmeyer) and horribly executed and horribly ended story arcs (Asuran, Weir, Michael arcs).
Starting in Season 2, the series became less of an ensemble show and focused almost exclusively on Sheppard and Mckay, excluding Teyla and Ronon. Weir, of course, continued to play the supproting, background role, but Teyla's role disappeared once the Season 1 plot was resolved (remember how big Teyla's role was in Season 1?). Fastfoward to Season 5, and Teyla is nothing more than the sypathetic mother on the team. Gone are her diplomatic skills and her warrior abilities. She has been sidelined since No Man's Land, practically no longer a member of Sheppard's team, as he simply orders her to remain on Atlantis whenever there's a crisis. Each time, the reason is that the Expedition needs a good leader, but we have NEVER seen her leadership abilities, despite seeing her diplomatic abilities (the exact opposite can be said for Weir). Season 5 did not resolve the issues of the past 5 years. rather, it merely continued them. that is the problem with Season 5. yes, it was entertaining; yes, it was interesting. But it added nothing to the original purpose of the Expedition set out in Rising. This series, like SG-1, fell into the trap of keeping the heroes from getting too advanced, and yet, their 10,000 year old enemies and the Millions-year-old Ancients were made to look like fools so that our heroes could unrealistically master any challenge. The series became more action than adventure, more sci-fi than reality.

Season 1's character development was excellent. There was tension, doubt, conflict, and bonding between the various characters- major, recurring and minor. The heroes were truly the outsiders and newcomers. They were forced to forge relationships and alliances, and ended up making enemies of two races. There was no SGC or Daedalus to shift focus away from the characters. The experiences the characters endured were carried on to the end of the season.

Season Two was drastically different. The series changed completely. Gone were the many recurring and minor characters from Season 1, those who contributed to the overall plot. The series became more comedic and action-oriented. Writing and character development slacked off, and simply became worse through the next three seasons.

Season 3 began with an end to rationally and morally conceived decisions (the three moral/ethical influences of the show were Carson, Weir, and Teyla- how ironic). Still, the first half was very good, wrapping up with a very good mid-season finale. The second half began with the horrible mistake of putting Lucius Lavin and Kolya in the same episode, and ended with the utterly pointless death of Carson Beckett (there goes part one of the Season 1 Atlantis feel).

Season 4 began with the removal of Weir and the introduction of Carter and Keller. Another pointless death occurred (that of Heightmeyer) and two arcs that were never really fleshed out on screen were ended (the Asuran-Wraith war and the Teyla arc began in Missing). Teyla was sidelined again, first in Lifeline and then in BAMSR. She was a mere observer in the bak half of the season. The end of the season ended strong, with a seemingly good setup for a very good arc. Unfortunately, that arc was ended before it began in S&R. Carter was replaced by Woolsey, but, unlike Weir, she was praised for her success even after she left (Weir got no such treatment). And I've already explaine dthe problems with Season 5.

Sorry for the long read, but the series has gradually gotten worse since The Siege pt 3. The show has been entertaining, yes, but that is about it. It is nowhere near the quality of SGA Season 1 and SG-1 seasons 1-7.

[A_PophisandhisFran]

Yeah, I do think season 1 is the best season. I don't think there's anything wrong with killing off a character or two, but TPTB overkilled the idea (no pun intended). Especially considering how many die-hard fans really care about the characters. After all, it's no coincidence that the Characters/Relationships section of this forum is always filled with activity. This is my opinion- they should never have killed Beckett (Sunday is one of my least favorite episodes for multiple reasons), but I'm ok with them killing Weir. Yes, I like her character, but her death could have had a big impact. Imo, however, she should have died instantly in First Strike or at the beginning of season 4. Her death would have maybe been more effective that way.

*Ahem*

I watched The Shrine, and I can see how those who dislike McKay wouldn't love it. Heck, I'm a McKay fan and I didn't love it. The ending seemed a little cheap (they were REALLY going to try brain surgery with a power drill and a life signs detector, really?) with how a two minute solution saved McKay. I'm happy he was saved, but it seemed slightly weird or anticlamatic or something. Also, I was thinking toward the end "Wow, there was only like one McKeller scene", but then they had to dedicate the last scene to McKeller. It sickened me a little bit. The story also seemed to drag a bit, I found myself looking at the clock wondering how long it had been going about 30 minutes in.

Ok, that's the negative side. On the positive side, this episode definately features some of the best acting of the series. David Hewlett was brilliant in it. Robert Picardo was brilliant in his little scene about his dad (or was it his uncle?). As someone who has seen a loved one go through Alzeimer's disease, I thought the episode was very touching. The editing was great. So no, this isn't my favorite episode (not in my top 10, and it's not an episode I'd rewatch alot) but I'd say it's probably the best episode of the season that I've seen so far, one of the best of the series.

Final note on the characters in The Shrine- Yeah it was about Rodney, but I thought Ronon and Woolsey and Sheppard had some really great scenes in this episode. Also, if there's one episode that will show what McKay is really about, this might be it.

[Southern Red]

Ltcolshepjumper, that was an excellent assessment of the show. I have been thinking for 4 years now that they should have left them cut off. It would have been much more interesting to see them continue to struggle and grow and develop as an independent colony. By necessity they would have had to rely on each other and actually explore and learn more about the city. After all, it was Stargate:Atlantis not Stargate: Pegasus.

It has also been hard to understand why they discard proven characters like Weir and don't develop the ones they keep like Teyla and Ronon. But the hardest thing for me to understand is why Sheppard stopped being the center of the mythology of the show and that focus shifted to McKay. Yeah, I understand the writers related to him better, but it was such a detriment to the show. Hindsight is always 20/20 I guess but these guys are supposed to be professionals.

Oh well, I'm sure they will correct all their mistakes with SGU.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Yeah, I do think season 1 is the best season. I don't think there's anything wrong with killing off a character or two, but TPTB overkilled the idea (no pun intended). Especially considering how many die-hard fans really care about the characters. After all, it's no coincidence that the Characters/Relationships section of this forum is always filled with activity. This is my opinion- they should never have killed Beckett (Sunday is one of my least favorite episodes for multiple reasons), but I'm ok with them killing Weir. Yes, I like her character, but her death could have had a big impact. Imo, however, she should have died instantly in First Strike or at the beginning of season 4. Her death would have maybe been more effective that way.

*Ahem*

I watched The Shrine, and I can see how those who dislike McKay wouldn't love it. Heck, I'm a McKay fan and I didn't love it. The ending seemed a little cheap (they were REALLY going to try brain surgery with a power drill and a life signs detector, really?) with how a two minute solution saved McKay. I'm happy he was saved, but it seemed slightly weird or anticlamatic or something. Also, I was thinking toward the end "Wow, there was only like one McKeller scene", but then they had to dedicate the last scene to McKeller. It sickened me a little bit. The story also seemed to drag a bit, I found myself looking at the clock wondering how long it had been going about 30 minutes in.

Ok, that's the negative side. On the positive side, this episode definately features some of the best acting of the series. David Hewlett was brilliant in it. Robert Picardo was brilliant in his little scene about his dad (or was it his uncle?). As someone who has seen a loved one go through Alzeimer's disease, I thought the episode was very touching. The editing was great. So no, this isn't my favorite episode (not in my top 10, and it's not an episode I'd rewatch alot) but I'd say it's probably the best episode of the season that I've seen so far, one of the best of the series.

Final note on the characters in The Shrine- Yeah it was about Rodney, but I thought Ronon and Woolsey and Sheppard had some really great scenes in this episode. Also, if there's one episode that will show what McKay is really about, this might be it.

But, once again, Teyla was sidelined, just like a rundown billboard. She who has been there since Season 1, before Ronon, Woolsey and Keller. Considering the fact that only three of the original six remain(Sheppard, Weir, Mckay, Ford, Teyla, Carson), you'd think they'd try to rectify her situation.

[A_PophisandhisFran]

But, once again, Teyla was sidelined, just like a rundown billboard. She who has been there since Season 1, before Ronon, Woolsey and Keller. Considering the fact that only three of the original six remain(Sheppard, Weir, Mckay, Ford, Teyla, Carson), you'd think they'd try to rectify her situation.

It's true that Teyla didn't get alot of big moments in this episode. I loved Teyla's conversation with WeirFran in "Ghost in the Machine", and it did seem like the other characters all had their moments in the episode (including Jeannie) except for Teyla. She was... around, but she didn't have any moments of her own that's true.

I was thinking of this a little bit, and I DO agree with what some people are saying as far as some characters being underused. One reason I think that, overall, I'm not as upset about the underuse of some characters is because I'm much more used to episodic television. I watch alot of old tv shows that aren't connected at all. Both episodic tv and shows with long "story arcs" have their merits, of course, and I enjoy a good story arc just like anyone. For myself, however, I usually evaluate an episode upon its own merits AS an episode. So, I'll consider a season a "strong season" if it's a collection of good episodes, even if some things are missing when you evaluate how the season works as a whole. I'm sure most of you don't hate a single episode just because Teyla is underused in it, but since I judge an episode by its own merits it becomes less obvious to me (or at least it bothers me less) that characters are being underused than it may to the rest to you.

I'm surprised noone has clocked the time each character is in this season so far. I know someone who went through the first season of Voyager and clocked how much time a character was in an episode. He watched each episode seven times to clock all the character, hehe.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

No. The only episodes I hate are Condemned, The Tower, Irresistable, Irresponsible, Harmony, Quarantine and Outsiders. Those episodes were utterly pointless. I generally view the series I watch on a regular basis (Such as Stargate) in terms of the seasons. However, I do look at whether or not an episode was entertaining. The above were not.

[A_PophisandhisFran]

No. The only episodes I hate are Condemned, The Tower, Irresistable, Irresponsible, Harmony, Quarantine and Outsiders. Those episodes were utterly pointless. I generally view the series I watch on a regular basis (Such as Stargate) in terms of the seasons. However, I do look at whether or not an episode was entertaining. The above were not.

Yeah, I tend to try not to hate my entertainment. I'm probably not the best at evaluating "what's wrong" with specific seasons, probably because, as I said, I don't watch in terms of seasons. It's true though, when a season is REALLY strong like season 1 of Atlantis, you do take notice.

I thought Sunday was pointless and boring. Then Irresistable, Trio (there are lots of reasons I dislike that episode), and maybe Quarantine. I think it's possible one or two episodes in season 5 could qualify for this as well (Brain Storm is a possibility).

[Lythisrose]

It's true that Teyla didn't get alot of big moments in this episode. I loved Teyla's conversation with WeirFran in "Ghost in the Machine", and it did seem like the other characters all had their moments in the episode (including Jeannie) except for Teyla. She was... around, but she didn't have any moments of her own that's true.

I was thinking of this a little bit, and I DO agree with what some people are saying as far as some characters being underused. One reason I think that, overall, I'm not as upset about the underuse of some characters is because I'm much more used to episodic television. I watch alot of old tv shows that aren't connected at all. Both episodic tv and shows with long "story arcs" have their merits, of course, and I enjoy a good story arc just like anyone. For myself, however, I usually evaluate an episode upon its own merits AS an episode. So, I'll consider a season a "strong season" if it's a collection of good episodes, even if some things are missing when you evaluate how the season works as a whole. I'm sure most of you don't hate a single episode just because Teyla is underused in it, but since I judge an episode by its own merits it becomes less obvious to me (or at least it bothers me less) that characters are being underused than it may to the rest to you.

I'm surprised noone has clocked the time each character is in this season so far. I know someone who went through the first season of Voyager and clocked how much time a character was in an episode. He watched each episode seven times to clock all the character, hehe.

Actually, Falcon Horus DID clock the screen time and lines for each of the main characters. Not sure where you could find it, I think that thread is closed? Hopefully someone knows where you can see the data.

Re an earlier comment about boring episodes. Things are so subjective about what is boring and what is not. I very much enjoyed Harmony and didn't think Outsiders was bad.

[Southern Red]

Actually, Falcon Horus DID clock the screen time and lines for each of the main characters. Not sure where you could find it, I think that thread is closed? Hopefully someone knows where you can see the data.

Re an earlier comment about boring episodes. Things are so subjective about what is boring and what is not. I very much enjoyed Harmony and didn't think Outsiders was bad.

That's so true. I loved Harmony, thought Outsiders was a good team ep, and found Irresistible funny. The only episodes I truly hated were Sanctuary and Sunday, mainly because almost everyone was so OOC. And even with little Sheppard, I found Trio entertaining. Brainstorm would also have been fine without the McKeller overload.

I think a lot of it has to do with your own position in life: age, maybe vocation, education, political viewpoint, and experiences. All of that together influences how we view things. So that's why everyone's opinion, no matter how much it disagrees with someone else's and even the vision of TPTB, is valid.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm surprised noone has clocked the time each character is in this season so far.

Someone has, as is mentioned by LtColShepJumper. I did.

5 seasons of SGA, 5 seasons of words and screentime.

I included all the main characters (the ones in the opening credits), plus when they returned for guest appearances in later seasons. I included Keller in season 4 because of the argument she was stealing time and words from Teyla. And I included Kate since she's my favorite character.

I very nearly lost my marbles, and became three fries short of a happy meal but I managed. Might do the movie too IF it ever gets made.

[Linda06]

Actually, Falcon Horus DID clock the screen time and lines for each of the main characters. Not sure where you could find it, I think that thread is closed? Hopefully someone knows where you can see the data.

Re an earlier comment about boring episodes. Things are so subjective about what is boring and what is not. I very much enjoyed Harmony and didn't think Outsiders was bad.

I hated Harmony....But then I hate kids, I especially didn't wanna see a younger version of Rodney

Someone has, as is mentioned by LtColShepJumper. I did.

5 seasons of SGA, 5 seasons of words and screentime.

I included all the main characters (the ones in the opening credits), plus when they returned for guest appearances in later seasons. I included Keller in season 4 because of the argument she was stealing time and words from Teyla. And I included Kate since she's my favorite character.

I very nearly lost my marbles, and became three fries short of a happy meal but I managed. Might do the movie too IF it ever gets made.

I added the screentime up...Did you know that DH had more screentime than RL and JM put together JF also has more screentime than RL and JM put together

So how was Ronon and Teyla not underused or underutilised?

Teyla actually had less screentime in S5 than in any other season And JM told us we'd be seeing alot more Teyla in S5

[A_PophisandhisFran]

Someone has, as is mentioned by LtColShepJumper. I did.

5 seasons of SGA, 5 seasons of words and screentime.

I included all the main characters (the ones in the opening credits), plus when they returned for guest appearances in later seasons. I included Keller in season 4 because of the argument she was stealing time and words from Teyla. And I included Kate since she's my favorite character.

I very nearly lost my marbles, and became three fries short of a happy meal but I managed. Might do the movie too IF it ever gets made.

Holy noodles! That's pretty interesting, and must have taken alot of work. Thanks for that.

I did like Harmony, I thought the young actress did a good job and overall I thought the episode was pretty funny. Sanctuary is another pretty "bleh" episode. I also agree 100% that people's backgrounds have alot to do with their likes and dislikes.

I've been watching a 60's show called Daniel Boone with Fess Parker and Ed Ames... I can guarantee that the show would drive some of the people on here crazy with continuity issues. One episode was set in the 1760's, and the next in the early 1800's (with the kids being the same age and all of that). Yet, because I find the individual episodes enjoyable. I can only imagine how alot of Atlantis fans would feel if the show had little to no continuity from episode to episode. The reason I bring all this up again is because a common (and if I'm being honest, legitimate) complaint is that the show doesn't jive as a season, and as a season doesn't have all the characters included enough. My point is it could be worse, much worse.

One thing I have noticed so far in season 5 is (I know I saw someone mention this earlier) that secondary characters aren't nearly as big a part of the show as they were in the first few seasons. In the first season there was Beckett (hard to believe he wasn't really supposed to be a main character at first), Grodin, Kate, a few aliens here or there (like Teyla's tall friend that I can't remember the name to right now), the head of security (can't remember his name really either), Zelenka, and more. In season 5, I haven't seen Zelenka much so far and guys like Chuck barely have appeared. Obviously these guys aren't a necessity, but it's nice to see them around.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm still in one piece...sorta, but I was ready for a straight-jacket after Irresistable. Lucius drove me to the edge.

*****But anyway...

I disagree on the necessity of secondary characters. In Atlantis they are important because it's not just about Colonel Sheppard's team. It starts out as being about the expedition going to the city of the Ancients, and thus secondary characters round off the whole and create a sense of reality. There really is an expedition with all these people (scientists, military, medical, technical, ...) and they come from all around the globe (or close to). They don't have to be around all the time, but in a way they complement the main characters. They fill holes in a story, and shouldn't be treated like neglictable material because they're most certainly not in my opinion. They're an essential part.

[Rac80]

I've been watching the commentaries and thought you might find a few things interesting. Some will hopefully provoke further discussion and a few will clarify a question or two but probably make you even more frustrated. LOL Anyway, a few notes I made: Martin Gero and Andy Mikita doing the commentaries for FC and TLT. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling what I heard.

1. MG said they have wanted to get DH and MS together for a long time. They were hoping to bring MS onboard as a regular in S6. The two guys got along great. They teased DH for having a man crush on MS.

2.There is much gushing over the love triangle. MG says Keller never seriously liked Ronon. She has had a crush on McKay for a long time and that was developed all along. Keller thinks like McKay and Ronon is Ronon. (whatever that means) Ronon was interested in Keller and their scenes together show she appreciates him but she realizes it wouldn't work. The scene when Keller rejects Ronon is one of MG's all time faves. He felt the triangle was done and they had to get it out of the way.

3.MG thought they didn't explore the city enough thus Janus's lab was born. And our guys needed to get their asses kicked for a change.

4. On the scene when Daniel and McKay make fun of John, the comments went like this:
MG: Mentions Mensa and they both LOL. "We've taken the Flanigan character away from that". More LOLing. "It was 2 nerds picking on the football star" Much more LOLing. "and we needed a moment between Rodney and Daniel".

5. Todd/Keller scene. MG wasn't really happy with the writing and surprised that the fans liked it so much. But the actors sold it.

6. They were surprised that JF didn't complain when the script said "Sheppard lies on top of Zelenka" MG (imitates JF) "I'm not doing that".

7. They loved Zelenka with the kid. MG: "People think we make a fool of Zelenka too much but I disagree with them".

8. Comment on Keller's hair. MG says they gave a stern talking to the hair department, but hopefully nobody noticed. But she's still very pretty.

9. The whole thing with the Asgard happened because coming up with a new alien would be too expensive. MG: "Why not use that frickin' puppet".

10. Ronon disappeared before the end because Jason was needed on another episode. This happens a lot they said with all the actors. Earlier they mentioned that The Queen was shooting at the same time. (This may explain the absence of Teyla also and the team being split up at times. Doesn't make it right I know, but it's all about scheduling and money with TPTB.)

11."I'll look for a can opener" was an ad lib from RP.

OMG OMG

Martin Gero did an interview for GW last year in which he said that McKay and Keller are his faves so OF COURSE having Keller shoot Ronon down would be a highlight in his day!

The rest of the stuff....whatever!

this is why that although I have the set (got at a very very deep discount...not paying full price for that crud!) I refuse to watch the extras. MG is everywhere and the man is just too icky for me!