S5: Critique and Contemplations

[jelgate]

TPTB keep digging themselves in to holes with the fans huh?

I don't think they really care what the fans say as long as they please the casual viewers. For example a friend of mine saw Inquistion as his first Stargate episode and loved it while fans like us say it weak. Lets face we have higher standards the casual standards since we voice more time into it. I say TPTB know they are okay as longer as they please the casual viewers who have lesser standards then the fans.

[kali1]

This is the scene I was referring to in my earlier post. Words cannot express how much I ABHOR this scene. Up to that point my feelings for Keller could best be described as "meh," but during that scene I would have said I hated her. And MG loved it?

*speechless*

Of course he did

[Southern Red]

This is the scene I was referring to in my earlier post. Words cannot express how much I ABHOR this scene. Up to that point my feelings for Keller could best be described as "meh," but during that scene I would have said I hated her. And MG loved it?

*speechless*

IMHO they ruined Keller. I actually liked her in Adrift. I thought she did a good job as a doctor. It was when they tried to make her into every boy's fantasy that she ran off the track. Oh and don't even get me started on the special feature on the costumes. Once again even the costume lady gushes about how great the costumes for her in Identity and Brainstorm are. I'm serious.

Yeah I think I heard that somewhere Wasn't it JF that said that the scene with Michael would be better if it was Teyla that finally finished him off?

That sounds like him. But who wouldn't have thought that? It had to be Teyla. I also recall in one they made much of the fact that JF only reads his own part. I think that was Mallozzi who mouthed off about that. Well maybe he does, but he still knows more about how the show should be done than you guys. Or at least parts of it.

[fumblesmcstupid]

I just don't get how they care more about a person who just watches once in a while, instead of a fan like me or you who watch episodes and KNOW the characters that we love and enjoy watching.

that is just backaswards.... *shakes head*

[jelgate]

I just don't get how they care more about a person who just watches once in a while, instead of a fan like me or you who watch episodes and KNOW the characters that we love and enjoy watching.

that is just backaswards.... *shakes head*

Because we are ten times smaller in numbers.

[Linda06]

That sounds like him. But who wouldn't have thought that? It had to be Teyla. I also recall in one they made much of the fact that JF only reads his own part. I think that was Mallozzi who mouthed off about that. Well maybe he does, but he still knows more about how the show should be done than you guys. Or at least parts of it.

He really did try to get Rachel and Jason a fair crack at the whip I'll always be greatful to him for that Yes he does, it's just a pity JF couldn't have the same influence on stargate that RDA had, it would have been so much better

[Southern Red]

I just don't get how they care more about a person who just watches once in a while, instead of a fan like me or you who watch episodes and KNOW the characters that we love and enjoy watching.

that is just backaswards.... *shakes head*

And they think we are going to watch anyway no matter what they do. But speaking only for myself, everyone I know who watched except me is a casual fan and they were all disappointed by the end. I doubt most of them even know SGU is in the works. And I don't plan to enlighten them.

[Skydiver]

I just don't get how they care more about a person who just watches once in a while, instead of a fan like me or you who watch episodes and KNOW the characters that we love and enjoy watching.

that is just backaswards.... *shakes head*

more like hundreds of casual fans to fans like us

seriously, they have to please the network first, long before fans really come into the picture. network first, casual viewers second

[Crazedwraith]

I don't think they really care what the fans say as long as they please the casual viewers. For example a friend of mine saw Inquistion as his first Stargate episode and loved it while fans like us say it weak. Lets face we have higher standards the casual standards since we voice more time into it. I say TPTB know they are okay as longer as they please the casual viewers who have lesser standards then the fans.

That's hardly a surprise you know. That kind of episode is designed for the people who are new to Stargate. Its pretty miuch what clip shows are for: Getting new viewers up to speed. (and saving money)

Seriously are their any clip shows that people like? Yes, people I think SG usually does good clip shows but no one thinks that the clip shows hold a candle next to regular episodes. The big exception to this of course is Letters From Pegasus but that was extraordinarily light on the clips.

That sounds like him. But who wouldn't have thought that? It had to be Teyla. I also recall in one they made much of the fact that JF only reads his own part. I think that was Mallozzi who mouthed off about that. Well maybe he does, but he still knows more about how the show should be done than you guys. Or at least parts of it.

Ha! Really? That's sad. I seem to recall that Robert Beltran did the same thing on Star Trek Voyager when he finally realised that; a) he was in a terrible show and b) the producers didn't care for him or his character at all.

[Killdeer]

I live to serve http://www.smilescollection.com/smil...t/sc_14413.gif

Thanks.

Lot of conversation going on since I was here.

On the topic of Daniel in Atlantis.........

I like Daniel. Of the original four, he was always my favorite. And of all the SG-1 cast, I think his personality would probably mesh the best with the Atlantis crew. The Atlantis crew profile tends more toward misfits and rebels, and Daniel fits that profile a lot closer than Carter did IMO. Also, out of the SG-1 crew, he is the only one who does not duplicate an role already occupied by a current cast member.

HOWEVER.

This set of writers has already demonstrated an astonishing lack of ability to develop and integrate the characters they already have. Instead of writing for all the characters, they write for the characters and pairings they're interested in at the time, and the rest fall by the wayside. And they were going to bring in another one? OK then. Based on what we saw this year, I can't help but believe that it would have been a disaster. The Daniel/McKay/Keller show indeed.

Also - the logistics. Even though Daniel's skills don't duplicate anyone's on the team - how are you going to work out a way to use him in enough episodes to justify him being a regular? Move to a five-person team? Like that worked so well with SG-1.

I just can't see them going to a seven-member cast, either. I agree that someone would have had to have gone to make room. Jason maybe? If they'd gotten a S6, maybe Ronon's death in EatG would have been permanent? (That's rampant speculation on my part)

I do agree that Sheppard would have been more sidelined than ever, but I don't see them getting rid of him (although I remember when I confidently said that about Elizabeth as well). They need a military team leader, and as much as they like Daniel and McKay, I doubt they would promote them to team leaders.

I'm kinda just thinking out loud here I guess - trying to figure out exactly how they were thinking they could work this all out. But maybe this is getting off-topic for this thread. Southern Red, since they were your commentary notes, and I have not watched the commentaries myself, would you mind me starting a separate thread to discuss Daniel as a regular in a hypothetical S6?

[Lythisrose]

I've been watching the commentaries and thought you might find a few things interesting. Some will hopefully provoke further discussion and a few will clarify a question or two but probably make you even more frustrated. LOL Anyway, a few notes I made: Martin Gero and Andy Mikita doing the commentaries for FC and TLT. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling what I heard.

1. MG said they have wanted to get DH and MS together for a long time. They were hoping to bring MS onboard as a regular in S6. The two guys got along great. They teased DH for having a man crush on MS.

2.There is much gushing over the love triangle. MG says Keller never seriously liked Ronon. She has had a crush on McKay for a long time and that was developed all along. Keller thinks like McKay and Ronon is Ronon. (whatever that means) Ronon was interested in Keller and their scenes together show she appreciates him but she realizes it wouldn't work. The scene when Keller rejects Ronon is one of MG's all time faves. He felt the triangle was done and they had to get it out of the way.

3.MG thought they didn't explore the city enough thus Janus's lab was born. And our guys needed to get their asses kicked for a change.

4. On the scene when Daniel and McKay make fun of John, the comments went like this:
MG: Mentions Mensa and they both LOL. "We've taken the Flanigan character away from that". More LOLing. "It was 2 nerds picking on the football star" Much more LOLing. "and we needed a moment between Rodney and Daniel".

5. Todd/Keller scene. MG wasn't really happy with the writing and surprised that the fans liked it so much. But the actors sold it.

6. They were surprised that JF didn't complain when the script said "Sheppard lies on top of Zelenka" MG (imitates JF) "I'm not doing that".

7. They loved Zelenka with the kid. MG: "People think we make a fool of Zelenka too much but I disagree with them".

8. Comment on Keller's hair. MG says they gave a stern talking to the hair department, but hopefully nobody noticed. But she's still very pretty.

9. The whole thing with the Asgard happened because coming up with a new alien would be too expensive. MG: "Why not use that frickin' puppet".

10. Ronon disappeared before the end because Jason was needed on another episode. This happens a lot they said with all the actors. Earlier they mentioned that The Queen was shooting at the same time. (This may explain the absence of Teyla also and the team being split up at times. Doesn't make it right I know, but it's all about scheduling and money with TPTB.)

11."I'll look for a can opener" was an ad lib from RP.

I HATE everything about these commentaries. TLT was an extremely weak episode and it completely screwed with the character's personalities and attibutes.
I can't believe the writers/producers actually thought this was good.

[Southern Red]

Thanks.

Lot of conversation going on since I was here.

On the topic of Daniel in Atlantis.........

I like Daniel. Of the original four, he was always my favorite. And of all the SG-1 cast, I think his personality would probably mesh the best with the Atlantis crew. The Atlantis crew profile tends more toward misfits and rebels, and Daniel fits that profile a lot closer than Carter did IMO. Also, out of the SG-1 crew, he is the only one who does not duplicate an role already occupied by a current cast member.

HOWEVER.

This set of writers has already demonstrated an astonishing lack of ability to develop and integrate the characters they already have. Instead of writing for all the characters, they write for the characters and pairings they're interested in at the time, and the rest fall by the wayside. And they were going to bring in another one? OK then. Based on what we saw this year, I can't help but believe that it would have been a disaster. The Daniel/McKay/Keller show indeed.

Also - the logistics. Even though Daniel's skills don't duplicate anyone's on the team - how are you going to work out a way to use him in enough episodes to justify him being a regular? Move to a five-person team? Like that worked so well with SG-1.

I just can't see them going to a seven-member cast, either. I agree that someone would have had to have gone to make room. Jason maybe? If they'd gotten a S6, maybe Ronon's death in EatG would have been permanent? (That's rampant speculation on my part)

I do agree that Sheppard would have been more sidelined than ever, but I don't see them getting rid of him (although I remember when I confidently said that about Elizabeth as well). They need a military team leader, and as much as they like Daniel and McKay, I doubt they would promote them to team leaders.

I'm kinda just thinking out loud here I guess - trying to figure out exactly how they were thinking they could work this all out. But maybe this is getting off-topic for this thread. Southern Red, since they were your commentary notes, and I have not watched the commentaries myself, would you mind me starting a separate thread to discuss Daniel as a regular in a hypothetical S6?

Heck no. I don't have any ownership, I just report what I hear. LOL. I'm sure that thread would get a lot of traffic and I'll bet other folks have heard the commentary also.

I HATE everything about these commentaries. TLT was an extremely weak episode and it completely screwed with the character's personalities and attibutes.
I can't believe the writers/producers actually thought this was good.

Who knows what they really think. They just hype their work. Sometimes it's hard to be objective and sometimes you have to spin. And sometimes you're just full of yourself. You decide who fits which description.

[Killdeer]

Heck no. I don't have any ownership, I just report what I hear. LOL. I'm sure that thread would get a lot of traffic and I'll bet other folks have heard the commentary also.

Thanks. I just got to thinking that an extensive discussion on a theoretical S6 was probably outside the thread topic.

EDIT: Thread started.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I've been watching the commentaries and thought you might find a few things interesting. Some will hopefully provoke further discussion and a few will clarify a question or two but probably make you even more frustrated. LOL Anyway, a few notes I made: Martin Gero and Andy Mikita doing the commentaries for FC and TLT. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling what I heard.

1. MG said they have wanted to get DH and MS together for a long time. They were hoping to bring MS onboard as a regular in S6. The two guys got along great. They teased DH for having a man crush on MS.

2.There is much gushing over the love triangle. MG says Keller never seriously liked Ronon. She has had a crush on McKay for a long time and that was developed all along. Keller thinks like McKay and Ronon is Ronon. (whatever that means) Ronon was interested in Keller and their scenes together show she appreciates him but she realizes it wouldn't work. The scene when Keller rejects Ronon is one of MG's all time faves. He felt the triangle was done and they had to get it out of the way.

3.MG thought they didn't explore the city enough thus Janus's lab was born. And our guys needed to get their asses kicked for a change.

4. On the scene when Daniel and McKay make fun of John, the comments went like this:
MG: Mentions Mensa and they both LOL. "We've taken the Flanigan character away from that". More LOLing. "It was 2 nerds picking on the football star" Much more LOLing. "and we needed a moment between Rodney and Daniel".

5. Todd/Keller scene. MG wasn't really happy with the writing and surprised that the fans liked it so much. But the actors sold it.

6. They were surprised that JF didn't complain when the script said "Sheppard lies on top of Zelenka" MG (imitates JF) "I'm not doing that".

7. They loved Zelenka with the kid. MG: "People think we make a fool of Zelenka too much but I disagree with them".

8. Comment on Keller's hair. MG says they gave a stern talking to the hair department, but hopefully nobody noticed. But she's still very pretty.

9. The whole thing with the Asgard happened because coming up with a new alien would be too expensive. MG: "Why not use that frickin' puppet".

10. Ronon disappeared before the end because Jason was needed on another episode. This happens a lot they said with all the actors. Earlier they mentioned that The Queen was shooting at the same time. (This may explain the absence of Teyla also and the team being split up at times. Doesn't make it right I know, but it's all about scheduling and money with TPTB.)

11."I'll look for a can opener" was an ad lib from RP.

Why am I not surprised? This one post and EatG summarize the tragic failure that is Stargate Atlantis. Hopefully the movie doesn't reflect the mind of the madman. Tptb's favorites- Mckay and Keller, Daniel is merely the fuel to Mckay's fire.

[Southern Red]

Why am I not surprised? This one post and EatG summarize the tragic failure that is Stargate Atlantis. Hopefully the movie doesn't reflect the mind of the madman. Tptb's favorites- Mckay and Keller, Daniel is merely the fuel to Mckay's fire.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. All through any commentary for S5 I've listened to runs a common thread: Keller is a great character, McKeller is a love story, Jackson in Atlantis is the best idea of the whole 5 years and Carter is the best leader imaginable. Picardo gets tons of kudos, deserved I think, but excessive as does McKay/Hewlett and the rest are occasionally there but rarely mentioned. The directors seem to like JF and sort of compliment him but not overly so considering he's supposed to be the star. In fact they go through whole episodes without mentioning him once. So I'd expect the movie to be all McKeller with SG-1 crossovers.

And any fan criticism is a source of amusement.