S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Linda06]

I wouldn't get my hopes up. All through any commentary for S5 I've listened to runs a common thread: Keller is a great character, McKeller is a love story, Jackson in Atlantis is the best idea of the whole 5 years and Carter is the best leader imaginable. Picardo gets tons of kudos, deserved I think, but excessive as does McKay/Hewlett and the rest are occasionally there but rarely mentioned. The directors seem to like JF and sort of compliment him but not overly so considering he's supposed to be the star. In fact they go through whole episodes without mentioning him once. So I'd expect the movie to be all McKeller with SG-1 crossovers.

And any fan criticism is a source of amusement.

And they wonder why we have such a problem with them

[Skydiver]

that attitude - 'we amuse them' is why fan crit is such a waste of time.

Please, i'm not dissing anyone, or telling anyone to shut up or anything like that. I'm just saying, have fun expressing your opinion, but please don't think that they'll take you seriously, cause they won't.

They, by and large, don't give a fig what we think or say. and, in my cynical POV, aren't above leaking some tweaked or spin doctored 'spoiler' just to see how much they can rile people up.

I've had this mental image of - after some incendiary spoiler is posted, them sitting in an office, 3-4 of them looking at a computer screen, laying bets on who reacts how and how many they can make mad.

we amuse them, and i don't find it far fetched to ever find out that they deliberately spin spoilers, to 'calm things up' so to speak.

That's why, have fun speculating and discussing and talking, but i don't ever even think that tptb give a dang what i think or feel.

[Southern Red]

that attitude - 'we amuse them' is why fan crit is such a waste of time.

Please, i'm not dissing anyone, or telling anyone to shut up or anything like that. I'm just saying, have fun expressing your opinion, but please don't think that they'll take you seriously, cause they won't.

They, by and large, don't give a fig what we think or say. and, in my cynical POV, aren't above leaking some tweaked or spin doctored 'spoiler' just to see how much they can rile people up.

I've had this mental image of - after some incendiary spoiler is posted, them sitting in an office, 3-4 of them looking at a computer screen, laying bets on who reacts how and how many they can make mad.

we amuse them, and i don't find it far fetched to ever find out that they deliberately spin spoilers, to 'calm things up' so to speak.

That's why, have fun speculating and discussing and talking, but i don't ever even think that tptb give a dang what i think or feel.

When I first came on here I thought naively that it was great to have a place to let them know what I thought. Because, you know, who wouldn't want to know what their viewers want to see so they could make the show better? *waits for laughter to die down*

Now I totally agree with you. The shippers especially were manipulated every step of the way as far back as Sam/Jack and then on into SGA. You know the showbiz saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity. These guys live and breathe it. It's a shame we seem to turn on each other. Everyone has a right to an opinion no matter how unpopular or heinous to somebody else. And they use our conflicts to just stir things up more. Who know how much these little games of theirs contributed to the cancellation.

It will be interesting to see if the dynamic changes with SGU. (I for one won't be involved in it but more power to those who can stand it.) I don't think it will because they are already spinning like a top.

[Linda06]

When I first came on here I thought naively that it was great to have a place to let them know what I thought. Because, you know, who wouldn't want to know what their viewers want to see so they could make the show better? *waits for laughter to die down*

Now I totally agree with you. The shippers especially were manipulated every step of the way as far back as Sam/Jack and then on into SGA. You know the showbiz saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity. These guys live and breathe it. It's a shame we seem to turn on each other. Everyone has a right to an opinion no matter how unpopular or heinous to somebody else. And they use our conflicts to just stir things up more. Who know how much these little games of theirs contributed to the cancellation.

It will be interesting to see if the dynamic changes with SGU. (I for one won't be involved in it but more power to those who can stand it.) I don't think it will because they are already spinning like a top.

They sure did get a kick outta turining the shippers against each other with their petty games

Well I for one won't be watching SGU. So they have lost at least one viewer with their childish behaviour.

As for SGU, well isn't it supposed to be more character driven? Well we've seen how well they've done that in the past so it does not bode well

Ok, I think this is getting a little off topic. We might get a row

So now that the discussions have died down with FC and TLT, what's the next ep after this again?

[Killdeer]

So now that the discussions have died down with FC and TLT, what's the next ep after this again?

Inquisition I think. But I haven't watched it so I can't contribute much. I read some absolutely scathing reviews on LJ about it though.

[Linda06]

Inquisition I think. But I haven't watched it so I can't contribute much. I read some absolutely scathing reviews on LJ about it though.

ohhhhhhhh......Can't we just skip that one

[jelgate]

Inquisition I think. But I haven't watched it so I can't contribute much. I read some absolutely scathing reviews on LJ about it though.

Actually its Outsiders.

[Killdeer]

Actually its Outsiders.

Is it? It is! Ooops.

[Linda06]

Oh Outsiders

I liked it, only thing that really bothers me though is the fact they forgot that Teyla can sense wraith I thought she could still sense wraith, or did having a baby diminish the gift somehow

I liked Carson in this ep, only one I liked him in in S5

[Killdeer]

I....don't really remember Outsiders very well. There's three episodes in this last half that I am really hazy on, and this is one of them.

I think I liked it alright, but it obviously didn't make an impression on me.

I did remember Teyla losing her Wraith sensing ability though - that was annoying. And I vaguely remember something about Carson and Rodney on a hive ship?

I'm assuming Sheppard and Ronon were somewhere in the episode, though I can't recall it. *headdesk*

[Cautious Explorer]

I....don't really remember Outsiders very well. There's three episodes in this last half that I am really hazy on, and this is one of them.

I think I liked it alright, but it obviously didn't make an impression on me.

I did remember Teyla losing her Wraith sensing ability though - that was annoying. And I vaguely remember something about Carson and Rodney on a hive ship?

I'm assuming Sheppard and Ronon were somewhere in the episode, though I can't recall it. *headdesk*

Same for me. There's a string of episodes here that weren't so hideous that they're seared on my brain forever (like BS) but they were just so bland and mediocre that they all run together in my mind. There were angry villagers, dark sets, completely uninvolving stories and more or less Keller to endure.

The only thing I remember about Outsiders is my frustration that Carson's return was wasted on his Abbot and Costello routine with Rodney. Who knew being caught on a hive ship was such a barrel of laughs?
It was more irritating than funny for me. Then there were Teyla and Ronon being shoved out of the picture as usual. That's about it. Nothing made sense. The characters weren't the characters I remember and it was all pretty generic.

[maxbo]

I've been watching the commentaries and thought you might find a few things interesting. Some will hopefully provoke further discussion and a few will clarify a question or two but probably make you even more frustrated. LOL Anyway, a few notes I made: Martin Gero and Andy Mikita doing the commentaries for FC and TLT. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling what I heard.

1. MG said they have wanted to get DH and MS together for a long time. They were hoping to bring MS onboard as a regular in S6. The two guys got along great. They teased DH for having a man crush on MS.

2.There is much gushing over the love triangle. MG says Keller never seriously liked Ronon. She has had a crush on McKay for a long time and that was developed all along. Keller thinks like McKay and Ronon is Ronon. (whatever that means) Ronon was interested in Keller and their scenes together show she appreciates him but she realizes it wouldn't work. The scene when Keller rejects Ronon is one of MG's all time faves. He felt the triangle was done and they had to get it out of the way.

3.MG thought they didn't explore the city enough thus Janus's lab was born. And our guys needed to get their asses kicked for a change.

4. On the scene when Daniel and McKay make fun of John, the comments went like this:
MG: Mentions Mensa and they both LOL. "We've taken the Flanigan character away from that". More LOLing. "It was 2 nerds picking on the football star" Much more LOLing. "and we needed a moment between Rodney and Daniel".

5. Todd/Keller scene. MG wasn't really happy with the writing and surprised that the fans liked it so much. But the actors sold it.

6. They were surprised that JF didn't complain when the script said "Sheppard lies on top of Zelenka" MG (imitates JF) "I'm not doing that".

7. They loved Zelenka with the kid. MG: "People think we make a fool of Zelenka too much but I disagree with them".

8. Comment on Keller's hair. MG says they gave a stern talking to the hair department, but hopefully nobody noticed. But she's still very pretty.

9. The whole thing with the Asgard happened because coming up with a new alien would be too expensive. MG: "Why not use that frickin' puppet".

10. Ronon disappeared before the end because Jason was needed on another episode. This happens a lot they said with all the actors. Earlier they mentioned that The Queen was shooting at the same time. (This may explain the absence of Teyla also and the team being split up at times. Doesn't make it right I know, but it's all about scheduling and money with TPTB.)

11."I'll look for a can opener" was an ad lib from RP.

Why am I not surprised? This one post and EatG summarize the tragic failure that is Stargate Atlantis. Hopefully the movie doesn't reflect the mind of the madman. Tptb's favorites- Mckay and Keller, Daniel is merely the fuel to Mckay's fire.

I agree that these Season 5 commentaries summarize why this group of writers failed SGA and why they have to spin so hard to generate interest in SGU. Instead of getting interesting, storyline enhancing reasons why they made the decisions they did, we get a lot of fanboyish gushing about how great their writing was for their favorite characters/actors.

The lack of creativity in this group of writers continues to astound me and everytime they speak they reinforce my opinion that they didn't care enough about SGA to plan anything for it beyond what they wanted to write about at the moment. The only good thing about my continued lack of respect for the writers is that my respect for the actors has grown even stronger because they managed to make me enjoy their characters despite the writing.

Same for me. There's a string of episodes here that weren't so hideous that they're seared on my brain forever (like BS) but they were just so bland and mediocre that they all run together in my mind. There were angry villagers, dark sets, completely uninvolving stories and more or less Keller to endure.

I'm in the same boat because Season 5 consisted of only a handful of episodes that I enjoyed enough to look forward to watching again. The rest is a collection of those that would leave me scarred for life if I thought about them too much and those that I can barely remember because they were so lackluster.

The only thing I remember about Outsiders is my frustration that Carson's return was wasted on his Abbot and Costello routine with Rodney. Who knew being caught on a hive ship was such a barrel of laughs?
It was more irritating than funny for me. Then there were Teyla and Ronon being shoved out of the picture as usual. That's about it. Nothing made sense. The characters weren't the characters I remember and it was all pretty generic.

Yeah, it's sad that although I consider this Carson's best Season 5 episode, which isn't saying much, it was used as just another excuse to showcase Rodney. What happened to Carson's relationship with the other characters?

[Cautious Explorer]

I agree that these Season 5 commentaries summarize why this group of writers failed SGA and why they have to spin so hard to generate interest in SGU. Instead of getting interesting, storyline enhancing reasons why they made the decisions they did, we get a lot of fanboyish gushing about how great their writing was for their favorite characters/actors.

The lack of creativity in this group of writers continues to astound me and everytime they speak they reinforce my opinion that they didn't care enough about SGA to plan anything for it beyond what they wanted to write about at the moment. The only good thing about my continued lack of respect for the writers is that my respect for the actors has grown even stronger because they managed to make me enjoy their characters despite the writing.

As much as they try to spin it, it's still the same old gang behind SGU. The same old gang that believes everything they touch turns to gold. The same old gang that thinks anyone who doesn't appreciate them must be some crackpot. The same old gang looking for the fun and easy way out. I can't see SGU turning out any differently.

TPTB can gush about the new actors, the new sets, the new premise all they want. But what's the point when they don't see any reason to change and grow? SGA was full of new actors, new characters and new opportunities but all TPTB were interested in was repeating what they'd already done, falling back on the safe and comfortable. Sadly for SGA it meant clinging to everything SG-1 and showcasing McKay ad nauseum. They'd have been better off continuing SG-1 with the addition of McKay. Sure, it would have ground SG-1 into the dirt, but they would have been spared the effort of pretending interest in a new galaxy and finding new excuses to sideline SGA characters so they could insert their SG-1 favorites. :rollleyes:

I'm in the same boat because Season 5 consisted of only a handful of episodes that I enjoyed enough to look forward to watching again. The rest is a collection of those that would leave me scarred for life if I thought about them too much and those that I can barely remember because they were so lackluster.

There used to be at least something redeeming about almost every episode in earlier seasons -- an interesting premise, a nice moment between favorite characters, lots of team fun -- but this season has complete episodes with nothing memorable (in a good way) at all.

Yeah, it's sad that although I consider this Carson's best Season 5 episode, which isn't saying much, it was used as just another excuse to showcase Rodney. What happened to Carson's relationship with the other characters?

Carson's strength was always the friendship he shared with all of the characters. Ever since he's returned, he's been mainly isolated in episodes where he interacts with only one or two characters. And often that character is a guest (his crush object in Whispers) or someone he barely knew before (Keller and Carter come to mind). What's the point of bringing him back if he's not allowed to interact with his old friends in a natural way?

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I agree that these Season 5 commentaries summarize why this group of writers failed SGA and why they have to spin so hard to generate interest in SGU. Instead of getting interesting, storyline enhancing reasons why they made the decisions they did, we get a lot of fanboyish gushing about how great their writing was for their favorite characters/actors.

The lack of creativity in this group of writers continues to astound me and everytime they speak they reinforce my opinion that they didn't care enough about SGA to plan anything for it beyond what they wanted to write about at the moment. The only good thing about my continued lack of respect for the writers is that my respect for the actors has grown even stronger because they managed to make me enjoy their characters despite the writing.

I'm in the same boat because Season 5 consisted of only a handful of episodes that I enjoyed enough to look forward to watching again. The rest is a collection of those that would leave me scarred for life if I thought about them too much and those that I can barely remember because they were so lackluster.

Yeah, it's sad that although I consider this Carson's best Season 5 episode, which isn't saying much, it was used as just another excuse to showcase Rodney. What happened to Carson's relationship with the other characters?

My biggest fear with SGU is that it will be so narrow that their won't be any room for new ideas and concepts. And Beckett just doesn't fit with the new Season 4&5 tone of the series.

[Falcon Horus]

I'll be surprised if I can remember why I quoted the posts... Off I go.

Kate - SEND LEMMING ONTO THEM WHOSE EVER IDEA IT WAS TO KILL HER OFF

*cloud of dust as she sprints off*

And they thought it was funny too - it's in the commentary of the episode. For those who own that dreadful season on DVD, you'll find the proof you seek. I'm not making this up.

Teyla, on the other hand, had no clear attribution. She was basically the alien resident who was later replaced by Ronon, but stayed on the show for unknown reasons.

Who else was going to be the designated hot alien chick if not for Teyla.

Actualy where was the team through season 5?

What team?

That might change with the movie, we'll see

How very naive of you.

FC was the best imho.

G.O.D

Who's the leading female again?

That would be one Doctor Meredith Rodney McKay.

11."I'll look for a can opener" was an ad lib from RP.

The best ever line of the whole episode, and the delivery was brilliant. Go RP!!

If 1% of all the idiocy previously reported infects SGU, I will be really sorry for that show and cast.

Second that.

(Wait until we get to Remnants. The commentary is done by Mallozzi. lol)

Please, don't hold back to share some of his insights.

And they are totally clueless even though several of them seem to lurk around here.

Only so they can make fun of the people and incite infight in the fandom. It must be a hobby.

They just don't care what we think and have proven it time and again.

If they didn't care, they wouldn't be bothered by it. But they are...

TPTB keep digging themselves in to holes with the fans huh?

It's a hobby.

The same old gang that thinks anyone who doesn't appreciate them must be some crackpot.

I dub thee, Sir/Lady Crackpot.

And the Lifetime Achievement Crackpot Award goes to.... me.

*******

Some sort notes on the episodes that I missed being discussed while away.

The Queen

Prime example of how Teyla is nothing more than a tool to use in Wraith-related stories.

Tracker

Err.... I got nothing

FC/TLT

Woolsey's line about the can opener was the best. It started out promising with Teyla actually having something to do, but then Sheppard said stay to the dog and she was left behind... yet again. Caldwell going AWOL in space.

I think I kinda liked Daniel - too bad others had to be removed to make room for him.

Outsiders

What was this about again?