Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[ToasterOnFire]

Along the same lines, I wonder if Teyla will have anything substantial to do in s5 outside of her baby arc. I'm betting no.

We should make our own predictions for s5 and then see what comes true and what doesn't. Stuff like:

-While TPTB may at best tease about ships like McKay/Keller and Shep/Teyla, neither will become canon.

-Woolsey will (magically!) transform from a whiny git to a somewhat capable leader. All conflict with the team will be without any teeth, since Woolsey will not suspend or fire any of them.

-Carter will choose to leave in some sort of fashion that does no damage to her character. No court martials. Can't have anyone on SG1 or SGA looking bad, now.

-There will be at least one, if not several, offworld planets that continue the RenFest cliche, women in busty outfits and all.

-Larrin/Shep will become the next Vala/Daniel, only far more irritating.

-The tradition of SGA to rarely to never feature women in command of ships and teams will continue. Male members of the team will continue to objectify the women on the team. At least one of the new female characters will be objectified by or subjected to shipping teases with an established male character.

-Michael may or may not die, but he will stay two dimensional and boring.

-Carson will never come back after this season, whether that means this clone dies or what.


-I'll never regret that Torri/Weir did not coming back.

[Anuna]

Oh please !! are we still on how Teyla dresses. It's really becoming a bit pathetic now especially when no one has a problem with how Ronon dresses... you don't think he is dressed to get female attention but that doesn't seem to bother anyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how either of them dress. Teyla is covered when on missions and god forbid she wears her own clothes when off duty. How dare she show off parts of her beautiful body. She should be covered from head to toe.. What century are we living in.. I see less clothes on people walking down the highstreet.


They are all dressed to appeal to both female and male fans.. Why did Elizabeth's tops get tighter and tighter with each season.. hmmmm.. where is the outrage about that. Why did Shep go around in the black teeshirt of yum for 3 years. Ronon wears his cut off shirts showing those bulging oiled muscles..

As to how Teyla was dressed or acted while pregnant, again nothing wrong with that either. I wore clothes like that while pregnant.. loose and comfortable... and she looks beautiful.. so what.

As to the wallpaper argument... if some want to say Teyla was wallpapered then that would apply to Ronon and Weir as well... hell of of them except John and Rodney, and even though they may get more screentime it doesn't mean they are anymore interesting or enjoyable than Teyla, Ronon or Weir.
They just all have different rolls and play different parts and Teyla's has been as interesting and appealing to me as to any of the others..

So if you don't like Teyla fine, but at least try and come up with logical and valid arguments.. and sometimes you don't even need a reason to dislike a character but the hyprocritical arguments about her attire are just getting old.

I think you missed the point. It's not about how Teyla is dressed it's about how she is, or rather isn't written. She's supposed to be a leader, right? So how come she ended up being the pretty thing for men to look at? I have no problem with clothing per se. I'm not offended by nudity, let alone split skirts or low cut maternity clothes. I'm offended by how the character is treated.

She should be a leader. Where is that? Where did that go? Her leadership role is decreasing in proportion with minimizing her clothes. She's put on display, because she's pretty and attractive - yes I'm able to see that and I like how she looks - but thet's all she's been given. That's what bothers me.

Interesting that you brought up Weir's shirts. Are you gonna tell us that Weir was all about her shirts? I think she was more about being a leader while she was there. That you can't deny.

Furthermore I don't like how both of them ended up - Weir's role was minimized and Teyla never got further than pretty wallpaper. make that pretty pregnant wallpaper in season four. I'm all for celebrating women and their beauty, but that's not all that should be celebrated. Women have brains too - that's something I want to see in my sci fi shows.

I don't see how Sheppard falls into this category with that black T shirt (although he could be written like a smart man, not a dumb male slut, but that's another issue). *confused* Ronon? They could dress him better, but I'd like to see him written better than he is now. He is just a wallpaper - much like Teyla, while McKay steals the show.

And just for the record - you might wanna check the ending of "The Hive" for the argument about Teyla being covered on missions. Again I have nothing against showing her body. I wish she was about her role - and what that role is supposed to be - not her body.

Below - me in red.

I understand your hostility since Teyla is your favorite character, but I admitted that there is a double standard. I guess when you criticize Weir you're not being prejudiced because you dislike her. Everything we say here is opinion, so that would make my criticism of Teyla just as valid as yours of Weir.

I am a conservative woman. I was taught to dress in such a way that my body is covered for the most part. By the generally accepted standards in the places I have always lived, this has been the common mode of dress. Throughout history in television and movies when a woman has been costumed in low cut outfits with her abdomen exposed the purpose has been to attract make attention.

Which is exactly why low cut costumes bother me in any science fiction show - they give us a hint what the character is about.

This has not always been true with men, e.g. sports movies, war movies with scenes of torture, historical dramas with loincloths, etc.

Let's not forget that through movie history male characters are given bigger, more important roles than women. This goes for SGA too and it's such a stereotype and discrimination too.


Teyla is the only regular character costumed in such a way. It is logical to suspect it is being done to attract attention because it is totally unnecessary when she is in the city of Atlantis. Everyone else is wearing jackets and she is wearing a sports bra. Tell me that makes sense.

Target audience, anyone?

I think the maternity outfits were just beyond ridiculous. They not only were intentionally low cut, exposing even more of her breasts than the other outfits she has worn, but looked very uncomfortable. I have been pregnant and I know that tender breasts would not be comfortable in those flimsy tops. The long split skirts have no purpose either and are cumbersome to get around in.

Split skirts do have a purpose. Target audience, again.

Being hugely pregnant makes it hard enough for you to navigate without all that material around your legs. No, it is being done to make the men whistle - exactly -, and if you don't think they are, just check out some of the responses on other forums.

I also don't understand why the people who profess to like Teyla so much aren't standing up and demanding her character be treated as the leader and diplomat you say she is rather than a sex object.

Exactly what I'm wondering too.

[FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]

Exactly. I like Teyla though she is not my favourite character, and I would like to say that I would not mind if she continued to dress the way she does if she was also established and treated as the leader she is. But as of late, no - and despite PTB's assurance that they will fix up this neglected character, it's only gotten worse.

Agreed. Like I said, I'm not offended by human body. I'm offended by the treatment of it.

[ShadowMaat]

Perhaps if Teyla did more than stand around looking pretty her outfits wouldn't bother people as much. Yes, some feel she does more than that and yes, some have no problem with what she wears, but I'm sure at least a few of the "stupid outfits" contingent (possibly including myself) might quiet down a bit if she actually had more to contribute to stories than her good looks, her ignored concerns and her fertile womb. That's how I see her, unfortunately; pretty but ineffectual wallpaper.

[justhere1971]

I understand your hostility since Teyla is your favorite character, but I admitted that there is a double standard. I guess when you criticize Weir you're not being prejudiced because you dislike her. Everything we say here is opinion, so that would make my criticism of Teyla just as valid as yours of Weir.

I am a conservative woman. I was taught to dress in such a way that my body is covered for the most part. By the generally accepted standards in the places I have always lived, this has been the common mode of dress. Throughout history in television and movies when a woman has been costumed in low cut outfits with her abdomen exposed the purpose has been to attract make attention. This has not always been true with men, e.g. sports movies, war movies with scenes of torture, historical dramas with loincloths, etc. Teyla is the only regular character costumed in such a way. It is logical to suspect it is being done to attract attention because it is totally unnecessary when she is in the city of Atlantis. Everyone else is wearing jackets and she is wearing a sports bra. Tell me that makes sense.

I think the maternity outfits were just beyond ridiculous. They not only were intentionally low cut, exposing even more of her breasts than the other outfits she has worn, but looked very uncomfortable. I have been pregnant and I know that tender breasts would not be comfortable in those flimsy tops. The long split skirts have no purpose either and are cumbersome to get around in. Being hugely pregnant makes it hard enough for you to navigate without all that material around your legs. No, it is being done to make the men whistle, and if you don't think they are, just check out some of the responses on other forums.

I also don't understand why the people who profess to like Teyla so much aren't standing up and demanding her character be treated as the leader and diplomat you say she is rather than a sex object.

It was rather jarring to watch that on my screen. I've also been pregnant, and I never once had the urge to showcase my growing appendage in such a way. I see teenage girls dressed around campus the way Teyla has been dressed during her PG in S4.

Anyway, what you said SR, completely agree. It's about respect. Not about showcasing something that does not add to the scope of the story. Compared to Teyla, Ronon has had huge character advancement. I am not a fan of Teyla's, but I also do not hate the character. I am indifferent towards her. As it stands I think I am just watching the entire show now for really to fill my time if I am not doing anything else.

[mcbarr]

Perhaps if Teyla did more than stand around looking pretty her outfits wouldn't bother people as much. Yes, some feel she does more than that and yes, some have no problem with what she wears, but I'm sure at least a few of the "stupid outfits" contingent (possibly including myself) might quiet down a bit if she actually had more to contribute to stories than her good looks, her ignored concerns and her fertile womb. That's how I see her, unfortunately; pretty but ineffectual wallpaper.

When SGA started, I thought Teyla would be some sort of wildcard alien leader/warrior, and then...

Ronon's addition later on just made things more redundant (and Teyla more expendable). I wonder if things would have turned out differently if Ford had been kept on the team.

[Southern Red]

Along the same lines, I wonder if Teyla will have anything substantial to do in s5 outside of her baby arc. I'm betting no.

We should make our own predictions for s5 and then see what comes true and what doesn't. Stuff like:

-While TPTB may at best tease about ships like McKay/Keller and Shep/Teyla, neither will become canon.

-Woolsey will (magically!) transform from a whiny git to a somewhat capable leader. All conflict with the team will be without any teeth, since Woolsey will not suspend or fire any of them.

-Carter will choose to leave in some sort of fashion that does no damage to her character. No court martials. Can't have anyone on SG1 or SGA looking bad, now.

-There will be at least one, if not several, offworld planets that continue the RenFest cliche, women in busty outfits and all.

-Larrin/Shep will become the next Vala/Daniel, only far more irritating.

-The tradition of SGA to rarely to never feature women in command of ships and teams will continue. Male members of the team will continue to objectify the women on the team. At least one of the new female characters will be objectified by or subjected to shipping teases with an established male character.

-Michael may or may not die, but he will stay two dimensional and boring.

-Carson will never come back after this season, whether that means this clone dies or what.


-I'll never regret that Torri/Weir did not coming back.

I don't think anyone will bet against any of those.

[Anuna]

-I'll never regret that Torri/Weir did not coming back.

AGREED. And I agree with the rest you said.

[Reiko]

Along the same lines, I wonder if Teyla will have anything substantial to do in s5 outside of her baby arc. I'm betting no.

The little one will inevitably turn out to be part of a malicious agenda, which generally requires that the wee child is grown up fast. As for "Teyla baby arc" I doubt the little one is going to be a little baby for long. And that's when Shep is rushed to the front to save the day.

-While TPTB may at best tease about ships like McKay/Keller and Shep/Teyla, neither will become canon.

Yup - and the teasing won't be light like in S1-S3. There will probably be another kiss between Rodney and Keller. I think they just might canonize Rodney/Keller.

-Woolsey will (magically!) transform from a whiny git to a somewhat capable leader. All conflict with the team will be without any teeth, since Woolsey will not suspend or fire any of them.

And then when the plot or situation suits them, the writers will reverse him back into said whiny git. Woolsey will threaten the team with dischargement or suspension, but he'll never follow through because our heroes can never get fired - even by someone as prickly as Woolsey.

-Carter will choose to leave in some sort of fashion that does no damage to her character. No court martials. Can't have anyone on SG1 or SGA looking bad, now.

They've already made all the characters look pretty bad. Carter will probably leave in a non-critical situation, I agree. She definately won't get hopped up on enzyme, incinerated by an exploding tumour, vanish into space, or fall off a balcony (even in a dream). She won't get super-aged by a Wraith or die in an exploding satillite. She'll mostly pack up her bags and decide to leave. Just like that.

-There will be at least one, if not several, offworld planets that continue the RenFest cliche, women in busty outfits and all.

RenFest? But women in busty outfits - even ones that are supposed to be strong leaders with fast ships - will inevitably appear. It doesn't matter if the offworld society is pathetically pre-technological or brilliantly post-technological - hot women flaunting their assets will ensure.

-Larrin/Shep will become the next Vala/Daniel, only far more irritating.

Far more irritating. Larrin was a cheap knock-off of Vala from the start anyway. Space pirates aren't all the same y'know. I blame the writers' lack of imagination and originality.

-The tradition of SGA to rarely to never feature women in command of ships and teams will continue. Male members of the team will continue to objectify the women on the team. At least one of the new female characters will be objectified by or subjected to shipping teases with an established male character.

Keller will do a ship-tease every episode With different characters every time so they'll become her adoring fans and hope that their enthusiasm for her will rub off on us as well. How wrong could they be? She should just get it on with Ronon and hope he'll break her tinny bones in bed.

-Michael may or may not die, but he will stay two dimensional and boring.

Missed character opportunity there. Yes, I'm afraid he has been reduced to Dr. Evil.

-Carson will never come back after this season, whether that means this clone dies or what.

They've already pretty much confirmed they prefer Keller. I don't trust what the writers we have right now will do with my Carson. I'm just not that trusting. At all.

-I'll never regret that Torri/Weir did not coming back.

Agreed to that.

[Jackie]

When SGA started, I thought Teyla would be some sort of wildcard alien leader/warrior, and then...

Ronon's addition later on just made things more redundant (and Teyla more expendable). I wonder if things would have turned out differently if Ford had been kept on the team.

But that would have required actual thought into what tptb wrote. I don't know about all of you but I found the REASON the let RF go was insulting to the actor.

"The character didn't develop the way we wanted him too." That was the excuse for firing the actor. IMO they should have fired the writers...they are the ones who didn't do their jobs. RF did a great job with what they gave him to work with.

season 1 of SGA and season 8 of SG-1 had Gekko as the QC department. After RDA and Gekko left all of the sudden all these changes started to both shows...it was painfully more obvious on SG-1 than SGA.

In season 2 is when SGA started this downhill trend that has now hit bottom. First they let go a primary character becuase they didn't want to develop him. Then Teyla's people left the show leaving Teyla with really nothing to do...so they made up the Wraith gene crud.

Next the show started to rely more and more on spaceships and less and less on the gate or the city's secrets. We get Rambo Ronon and he becomes the shiny new toy and Ford is made into a made man and then never heard from again.

By season 3 the show was more of a comedy to me than a action adventure show. And the male dominated comedy seemed to be gender bias. Luscious was supposed to be a "fun and lovable" character but he turned out to be a weasel and a slim ball.

They started to introduce a good arc for Beckett and the Wraith but that turned into a rip off a "aliens vs predator."

Then kill off a main character just to "shake things up"...hmm,...sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it? Ford anyone? But in Beckett's case it was a ratings ploy...which backfired.

Then enter season 4...the boring as H E double hockey sticks season.The only exciting eps where the first two where Weir had a major/minor arc. The rest of the season...including the "big cliff hanger" was over all anti climatic and just as exciting to me as the Bori.

(Hmm, maybe the Bori survived after all and is now...SGA?)

Season 5 looks as predictable and boring as season 4. There is only 2 eps I would like to see. The other 18 sound just dull, dull and dull.

[ShadowMaat]

Ronon's addition later on just made things more redundant (and Teyla more expendable). I wonder if things would have turned out differently if Ford had been kept on the team.

No. The only difference would be that folks would be complaining that Ford and Teyla were wallpaper rather than Ronon and Teyla.

And if they'd kept both of them (*gasp!* what a shocking concept!) then there'd be three of them drifting around, getting in McShep's way.

[Falcon Horus]

I just watched The Seer again, and if that's a glimpse of how Woolsey might behave in season 5... I'd say Atlantis is bound for selfdestruct in no time.

[Skydiver]

guys, any and ALL complaints about season 5 are on topic here...even ones you personally may not agree with.

My suggestion, skim over the ones you don't want to read, or put people on ignore.

[kali1]

Um yeah, that won't happen since SGA is a cable show and they normally let their show run the last entire season.

Yeah they will show the entire season but they also announced SG1 was canceled in the middle of S10. They showed the entire season but it was still canceled.

[kali1]

You're right. They said something about her going darker. That means she was going to make the angry face and smack somebody with a stick a couple of times and call it an arc. We're done with her, let's see what McKay can get up to.

With that and the bad costuming, she deserves better.

Yes, she does deserve better.

[kali1]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"][FONT="Georgia"]

The little one will inevitably turn out to be part of a malicious agenda, which generally requires that the wee child is grown up fast. As for "Teyla baby arc" I doubt the little one is going to be a little baby for long. And that's when Shep is rushed to the front to save the day.

It will be a super baby. The wee babe will be able to do battle when it's 1 week old! Watch in awe as it cuts down a wraith with a single blow....LOL. God, I wish they NEVER created this story arc for Teyla.

Yup - and the teasing won't be light like in S1-S3. There will probably be another kiss between Rodney and Keller. I think they just might canonize Rodney/Keller.

YEs, we will feel so special to see another Rodney/Keller kiss. Where's my barf bag??

And then when the plot or situation suits them, the writers will reverse him back into said whiny git. Woolsey will threaten the team with dischargement or suspension, but he'll never follow through because our heroes can never get fired - even by someone as prickly as Woolsey.

LOL!!! GOod one!

They've already made all the characters look pretty bad. Carter will probably leave in a non-critical situation, I agree. She definately won't get hopped up on enzyme, incinerated by an exploding tumour, vanish into space, or fall off a balcony (even in a dream). She won't get super-aged by a Wraith or die in an exploding satillite. She'll mostly pack up her bags and decide to leave. Just like that.

Yep, I can see that happening. Basically all season, she's just stands there like she has no idea why she's even there. I miss the Sam from the good ol' days of SG1.

RenFest? But women in busty outfits - even ones that are supposed to be strong leaders with fast ships - will inevitably appear. It doesn't matter if the offworld society is pathetically pre-technological or brilliantly post-technological - hot women flaunting their assets will ensure.

YEs and we'll be seeing our boys drooling over each and every one of them....

Far more irritating. Larrin was a cheap knock-off of Vala from the start anyway. Space pirates aren't all the same y'know. I blame the writers' lack of imagination and originality.

Yeah. Cheap. That's a good word to describe Larrin. Space pirates. Yeah, that's another good term for them. The travelers are so lame and boring. Tata Larrin and the Travellers, go away, you bother me....

Keller will do a ship-tease every episode With different characters every time so they'll become her adoring fans and hope that their enthusiasm for her will rub off on us as well. How wrong could they be? She should just get it on with Ronon and hope he'll break her tinny bones in bed.

Yes, because she is a party girl you know. She has plenty of experience and knowledge of beer games.

Missed character opportunity there. Yes, I'm afraid he has been reduced to Dr. Evil.

They've already pretty much confirmed they prefer Keller. I don't trust what the writers we have right now will do with my Carson. I'm just not that trusting. At all.

I don't trust them either. Poor Carson. He's been reduced to a clone. Now that's sad.



Great comments BTW