Ronon+ Wraith-???????

[Guest]

THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!

das

Anytime

I've got more caps of TLM, but thoses are the only ones I have done of Ronon and Todd at the moment... I really like that scene and the way they almost had each other with their blades...



I know it's a bit OT for this thread but I did these 2 of Michael, I was really surprised by this scene...

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I'll get round to making some more caps at some point... I've got some good ones of the Phoenix though

[jenks]

Ronon didn't want to risk the lives of his men any more than he had to. He knew that he couldn't make it through alone. He knew that TODD was right that a smaller force would be more effective. He knew a cruiser had landed and they'd soon be over whelmed. He knew that Todd was a powerful super strong wraith who was good in a fight. He knew that both he and Todd had the same objective. He knew that it was best to keep an ee on him and probably would have stunned him and taken him prisoner if they had got out of there.

I reckon that all sounds like Ronon to me.

Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.

[aboleyn24]

Some people just don't get the whole point of 'character development', do they...

It was a great moment - a defining moment. It showed that even the worst of enemies can learn to put their differences aside for the greater good. It also showed both men...well...man and Wraith...that they were more alike than they ever realized. They were equals - no longer preditor and prey - and they died together as equals.

It was truly beautiful...


THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!


das

Exactly, I couldn't agree with you more.

It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.

Why? Seriously please expand on why it was out of character. I am truly interested in your point of view. I see it differently, but would like to see why you think it was out of character.

[jenks]

Why? Seriously please expand on why it was out of character. I am truly interested in your point of view. I see it differently, but would like to see why you think it was out of character.

Well why wouldn't he have killed him on site? He hates his guts, he didn't need his help so why wouldn't he just blow his brains out?

[talyn2k1]

I thought the scene was great. Ronon wasn't out of character, he's developed.

Michael has become the dominant force of the galaxy, the Wraith and humans are both in danger of being exterminated at his hands. Ronon has come to trust Todd through all their encounters and realised that Todd was just as eager to slow down Michael as he was.

I didn't see any complaints when SG-1 teamed up with Ba'al in Reckoning, and that was pretty much the same thing.

As artbrann said - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It's unbelievable. Fans have been groaning for the last 4 years that there hasn't been enough character development. They actually developed both Ronon and Todd in that one short piece of the episode (albeit in an alternate future), and people are still complaining!

PTB truly cannot win!

[RepliVeggie]

Who knows how Ronon had changed. It had been a few months if not maybe a year since Shepphard went missing. There may be pretty much no Wraith left and has focused on Micheal's bunch. Accept it it was awesome. I love Todd and Ronon.

[Skydiver]

that was the best bit of the whole episode

here's hoping they pair those two up more often

they may be fundamentally opposite...but are both brilliantlyh ruthless when it comes to getting the job done

[naamiaiset]

that was the best bit of the whole episode

here's hoping they pair those two up more often

they may be fundamentally opposite...but are both brilliantly ruthless when it comes to getting the job done

I agree, I'd love to see them team up again. ronon is the last person who would ever ally with a wraith, and it was a great change from the "see a wraith, kill it, go on my way" mode of thinking that everyone would expect from him.

[aboleyn24]

Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.

That makes it seem like Ronon is totally primal, goes for immediate satisfaction instead of thinking ahead. Perhaps this is how Ronon was when we first met him, but I really think he has come a long way from that.

This Ronon took a bunch of rag tag survivors and turned them into a formidable army. You don't do that by just satisfying your primal urges. He instead focused on looking two steps ahead.

Todd was an asset in the fight against Michael. Ronon was looking ahead instead of just going for a quick burst of satisfaction. Who knows maybe that little smile was knowing he was taking Todd with him.

I still think it was the best moment of the episode and one of the best of the season. Jason and Chris did a fantastic job together.

[Sparrow_hawk]

It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.

I've got to disagree with you on this. Ronon disliked Todd in the past. Time has passed and things have changed. Michael is now the enemy of both Wraith and Human. As I see it Todd and Ronon have been waging their own guerrilla warfare campaigns against Michael off-screen. Maybe they've even run into each other before, or seen the results of one another's handiwork. Ronon is not just a rogue fighter any more, he is the leader of an army. And Todd is the Wraith he always was.

Now they are both at Michael's lab with the same goal. They are both outstanding fighters and each has nothing to gain, at that particular moment in time, from killing the other. As they said in Kindred I "There's always next time..." For T&R to form a temporary alliance makes sense to me.

I'm glad they did; it was a great scene!

[dasNdanger]

Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.

Well why wouldn't he have killed him on site? He hates his guts, he didn't need his help so why wouldn't he just blow his brains out?

Okie dokie - I'm just gonna assume you're playing devil's advocate...because...well, because.

Todd is a Wraith - yes...and Ronon hates Wraith - yes. However...Ronon has proven time and again that he is able to rise above. He did so in The Runner (and for a few episodes thereafter) when he had to learn to trust even fellow humans. Now, it's time for him to rise above again...

True, Ronon hates Wraith because of what they did to him, and his planet, and his people...HOWEVER....

There is no indication that Todd - as an individual - was any part of that. In fact, Todd was most likely in the Genii prison when Sateda was attacked, and during those 7 years afterwards when Ronon was hunted like an animal. That is, as far as we know right now. So, Todd - as an individual - has never done anything bad to Ronon.

Instead, Ronon knows this about Todd:

1. Todd willingly return Sheppard's life to him in an act of self-sacrifice. I say 'self-sacrifice' because, when the Wraith in Travellers gave Larrin back her life, he acted weak and a bit wobbly afterwards, as if it had drained him. So the gift of life undoubtedly takes strength away from the Wraith giving it. And Todd was under no obligation to return Sheppard's life to him - he could have escaped instead, and left Sheppard for dead. But he showed himself to be a Wraith of honor, repaying a debt he felt he owed.

2. Todd was the first to tell the Lanteans about the Replicators destroying human worlds, thus expediting their attack plan. Todd came with both an offer of assistance, and the technical information that was needed to give that assistance, without any indication that he was going to betray them (yes, he held back info, but that was to insure the humans didn't double-cross him, which WAS Sheppard's evil little plan).

3. Todd agreed to help save Rodney's sister - agreeing to do so without promise of a meal. Therefore, he knew Todd didn't always expect something in return, and that he'd help even if death was inevitable.

4. Todd brought Wraith hives into the battle against the Replicators, thus increasing the odds that the Lanteans would be victorious.

5. Todd gave them information to help with both Michael, and in finding Carson.

And yes - he also knows that Todd tried to get the cloning facility up and running, and that he stole info on Midway from Rodney. But that was no worse than some of the things the Lanteans had done to him (captivity, starvation, forced labor, refusal to trust, scheming to double-cross him, etc).

No one is saying that Todd should be 100% trusted - I don't fully trust him, and I 'love' him! However, Ronon is a bigger man than to let prejudice and hatred blind him to the reality of things. Todd has been as good a 'friend' to the Lanteans as a Wraith could ever hope to be...and Ronon has to see this. Ronon has to realize that it's not easy for Todd to resist feeding on every human he sees, just as it's not easy for Ronon to resist killing every Wraith that he sees.

In this, they are equals. They are both fighting their natural inclinations because - unlike some people - they are able to see the good in each other. It's a wonderful lesson for us all. Ronon doesn't allow his hatred for what the Wraith did to him and his people blind him to the fact that - perhaps - this one Wraith is just a bit different. Not that Todd wouldn't feed on him, or that Todd is some sort of saint, but that Todd is at least trying to maintain some self-control, just as Ronon is trying to do.

Ronon truly impressed me. He didn't need Sheppard there to tell him to stand down. He did so on his own. Why? Because he's grown. He's now a leader of men himself. And he can see that old grudges aren't worth dying or killing over, not when you have something much more important to face. And he was facing it together with a Wraith who decided to stay and fight, instead of looking out for himself and running away. Truly impressive development for both.

Of course, it's a development that we probably will never see happen, since only under those exact circumstances would these two find themselves fighting, and dying, like that. Still...it was beautiful to see...best written scene in the episode, hands down.


das

[Demerzel]

In my opinion this was one of the highlights of the episode. The looks they exchange at the end, that was priceless. Two unlikely comrades in war, who are both unaffraid of dying and who sacrifice their lives for a common cause.

That showed, without any word said about it, that even enemies can respect each other.

[JohnRico]

If Ronon & Todd started fighting each other they both more then likely would have been over runned by the Hybrids & Ronon would have never had time to push that button

[Demerzel]

Even Ronon must have realised the complexity and gravity of the situation. Killing Todd would have made things worst, and I think Ronon kind of respects Todd as well; gotta admit, Todd is a hell of a fighter.

[Guest]

Here's some more screencaps of Ronon and Todd...

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