'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[Willow'sCat]

and you're talking about...? obviously Carson and maybe Daniel. someone else?

Before the whole thing with Torri they were also bringing a kind of Weir back. And more or less most folks thought Ford was dead, he certainly should have had massive internal injuries from falling all that way down into the water.

And for me this is more a general thing in scifi/fantasy that doesn't work. I can't really think of any show where I didn't have to completely leave my brain at the door in order to "buy" back from the dead storylines.

Hmm, it is like watching Days of our lives.

[Jumper_One]

Before the whole thing with Torri they were also bringing a kind of Weir back.

no they weren't. Torri was back but Weir wasn't

And for me this is more a general thing in scifi/fantasy that doesn't work. I can't really think of any show where I didn't have to completely leave my brain at the door in order to "buy" back from the dead storylines.

I know what you mean however I can think of worse ways to bring back supposedly dead characters

Hmm, it is like watching Days of our lives.

[erb]

If you are accepting time-travel and AUs and replicators and clones (and I have to wonder why you would watch the Stargate series (and scifi in general) if you are anti all of that....since they are a significant part of the 'universe'), it is more reasonable than not to see dead characters again, even if they may not be the exact character.

Didn't read the thread, but did people object to 'Rod' making an appearance?

But, for those of you who don't want 'dead characters' to come back to life. I'm all for offing Keller and her not coming back.

Haven't all the characters 'died' already, most drowning when Atlantis' shield didn't hold when the expedition first arrived. Perhaps SGA should have ended right there. (And, yes, I'm being facetious.)

The reasoning beyond offing Carson was cheap. That, to my mind, trumps everything else.

[cabouse18]

I'm Willow's Cat on this one. He was a okay character, but I just don't think he should come. You bring back to many characters and you make death look unrealastic. It might have been a mistake to kill him off but I they are cheapening his death a little by bringing him back

That I can totally agree with. You made the decision to kill off the character therefore you should have to live with the fact that you pissed off the fans and the character is now dead. Not that I am not happy to see Carson back it is just it is done too many times in tv where the writers kill off a character and then either regret it or give into fan pressure with the "save so and so" campaigns and then bring the character back.

Writing a character out of the show if the actor/actress wants to leave is one thing. Write them out though...don't kill them. Writing them off is sometimes more plausible than killing them off and the only reason they tend to kill characters off is to create drama. If you want to write something dramatic then write something that doesn't require you to KILL the character....it can be done and has been done in many shows. Writing them out of the show leaves you the option to bring them back without having to create all these crazy scenarios. Again, it is not that I am not happy to see Carson, I just think they never should have killed him off in the first place b/c now look at what they have gone and done in order to bring him back.

What it comes down to is having to live with the original decision you made. You made the bed, now lay in it.!

[Briangate78]

Well Daniel died in SG-1 and then returned. Same thing really. He retook Human form with a new body. So there is the same thing as per Carson. Retook a new body with all the thoughts, memories, and personality. I really do not see what the big deal is. I mean how dare they make this show into a Science Fiction show.

[jelgate]

Well Daniel died in SG-1 and then returned. Same thing really. He retook Human form with a new body. So there is the same thing as per Carson. Retook a new body with all the thoughts, memories, and personality. I really do not see what the big deal is. I mean how dare they make this show into a Science Fiction show.

I can understand what your saying but doing it too much makes it look like your cheapening death.

[cabouse18]

I can understand what your saying but doing it too much makes it look like your cheapening death.

Exactly!

[Briangate78]

I can understand what your saying but doing it too much makes it look like your cheapening death.

Actually if it was the originall Carson then it would be cheap. A clone was clever and well done. The original Carson is dead and not coming back. So technically a dead character has technically not returned.

[Jumper_One]

I can understand what your saying but doing it too much makes it look like your cheapening death.

they did it twice. also the real Carson is still dead so technically he didn't return

EDIT: what Brian said

[ShadowMaat]

no they weren't. Torri was back but Weir wasn't

Oh? And she would have been playing a completely new character? No. She would have been playing Repli-Weir. Weir is dead, but ta-dah! She's back, too. Just not the same. Daniel, dead and returned. Apophis, dead and returned, over and over. Baal (also clone-y), Anubis, Fraiser (we got to see an AU version of her after she died), Kawalsky (also AU), probably others in S8-10. Sure, some of them were only "believed" to be dead, but isn't that just as cheap as coming back from the real thing?

If you are accepting time-travel and AUs and replicators and clones (and I have to wonder why you would watch the Stargate series (and scifi in general) if you are anti all of that..

I'm not anti any of it... in moderation. But when gimmicks get over-used, it cheapens them, IMO, and Stargate has already gone past my toleration limits on nearly every score. And again, just because you CAN do something (AU, clones, robots) doesn't mean you SHOULD and it certainly doesn't mean that it's inevitable. Do all these things happen in scifi? Absolutely. Do they HAVE to happen? No, not always. IMO bringing back Carson was a mistake. Sometimes the dead should STAY dead. In all forms.

[erb]

I'm not anti any of it... in moderation. But when gimmicks get over-used, it cheapens them, IMO, and Stargate has already gone past my toleration limits on nearly every score.

But I wasn't a fan of the original series and didn't see most of the instances you are referencing. I don't want to be penalized with the loss of my favorite character in THIS show because of what has been done in another.

Stargate to me is SGA.

[Jumper_One]

Oh? And she would have been playing a completely new character? No. She would have been playing Repli-Weir. Weir is dead, but ta-dah! She's back, too. Just not the same. Daniel, dead and returned. Apophis, dead and returned, over and over. Baal (also clone-y), Anubis, Fraiser (we got to see an AU version of her after she died), Kawalsky (also AU), probably others in S8-10. Sure, some of them were only "believed" to be dead, but isn't that just as cheap as coming back from the real thing?

I see what you mean. however we never saw the real Weir again after Adrift so technically she didn't return. Daniel was brought back, ITA with that. Apophis was revived through the sarcophagus (how many times?) and Baal was cloned but he wasn't really gone right? Fraiser returned for one ep and she was from an AU, as was Kawalsky. only Daniel and Carson were really gone and brought back imo. and this is kinda OT

[a-ko]

Yeah I think that was the issue. It's amazing how a misquote can ruin a certain episode. An episode I thought was at least in the top 5 this season. I have to envy the folks who don't venture onto the forums, at least they likely got a better episode since they were not spoiled.

So, yeah it makes total sense. This really ticks me off, because "The Kindred" was ruined for some people due to spoilers. That is not cool in my book.

Well that's my take on it. I still thought spoilers or misquotes it was an amazing episode. The Michael, Carson, and Teyla scene was a shocker so I got that surprise at least.

i think that's what caught me off guard, i'd heard all of these clever theories from sga fans and discussed interesting ideas with my pals about how carson can return and not be a fake, and then he ended up a cloney.. which sorta felt like a cop-out..

tho now that i'm over the initial shock of the situation, it was a good episode.. i liked carson being practically carried by the back of his pants by ro - gold ! and i loved the dog's breakfast remark - shameless ! and i should just keep thanking my lucky stars that carson is back at all..

[a-ko]

I'm not anti any of it... in moderation. But when gimmicks get over-used, it cheapens them, IMO, and Stargate has already gone past my toleration limits on nearly every score. And again, just because you CAN do something (AU, clones, robots) doesn't mean you SHOULD and it certainly doesn't mean that it's inevitable. Do all these things happen in scifi? Absolutely. Do they HAVE to happen? No, not always. IMO bringing back Carson was a mistake. Sometimes the dead should STAY dead. In all forms.

if you ever have a heartattack and are defib'd are you gonna turn to the medic and be all "oh noooo !!! not again, another person brought back to life ?! just cos you CAN bring me back, doesn't mean you SHOULD !! sometimes the dead should STAY dead !!"

*joeks~*

[Lt. Ford]

I guess I understand where you are coming from. When Carson was killed in SGA, I felt a pang of sorrow in my heart and was sad. That was before I knew some stuff that would happen in the show before hand anyway. Everytime I watched Sunday, I felt the same sadness, but I'll never really watch it the same way again. I'll just be like, "meh, once I get to season 4 I'll get to see him come back again, so oh well."

Kinda takes away from the dramatic impact of a main cast member getting killed knowing that he'll be back soon.