'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[Falcon Horus]

I just forced myself to watch The Kindred II... yes, you read it well - forced.

On thursday Anuna asked me what I thought would happen in The Kindred II and I said:

It will mmmmmaybe be about Michael, definitely about Carson, while Teyla's Z-plot will disappear in the background.

What d'you know? I was spot on.

ROTFLMAO about the fact that Carson is a clone!!!

Also I did a little research and went looking for the definition of a few words cause I want to make sure the definition of the words are clear to everyone, and that there is no need to discuss the exact meaning, and to make sure I'm not spouting something that has no source or facts behind it. Back-up, if you will.

Story arc

A story arc is an extended or continuing storyline in episodic storytelling media such as television, comic books, comic strips, video games, and in some cases, films. In a television series, for example, the story would unfold over many episodes.

So, now I know what an arc is, not that I didn't before.

Plot is often schematically represented as an arc reflecting the rising action described in the following phases:
1. Initial situation - the beginning. It is the first incident that makes the story move.
2. Conflict or Problem - goal which the main character of the story has to achieve.
3. Complication or Rising action- obstacles which the main character has to overcome.
4. Climax - highest point of interest of the story.
5. Dénouement or Resolution - what happens to the character after overcoming all obstacles/failing to achieve the desired result and reaching/not reaching his goal.
6. Conclusion - the end result

1. Missing (407)
2. ???
3. Kindred I (418)
4. ??? - supposedly Kindred II (419)
5. season 5 maybe?
6. season 5 maybe?

Nope, Teyla didn't have an arc in season 4, not in the least... A Z-plot, however, yes... That she had, playing around in the background.

Plot or storyline

In fiction, a plot or storyline is the rendering and ordering of the events and actions of a story, particularly towards the achievement of some particular artistic or emotional effect.

Yup, there's a definition she fits... not quite but it's there. A background-story, so as not to disturb the foreground players, the lovely Sheppard and McKay.

Oh, and I have one for the baby too...

Plot device

A plot device is an element introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

TPTB fit the bolded part perfectly, imo. You may all agree to disagree with me, I'm sure I will be alone in that belief anyway.

And since it was mentioned...

Plot hole

A plot hole is a gap in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story, and writers usually try to avoid them to make their stories seem as realistic as possible.

Anyway onto the rest of my review...

The good:

*blank*

The mediocre:

*blank*

The bad:

* Teyla's Z-plot
* the episode in general

The ridiculous:
* Beckett's a clone with a mindlink to Michael
* Teyla's big arc

The EEK!:
* Halling!!! I barely recognized him with no hair and no beard.

My prognosis for Beckett in season 5 - They'll screw him over like hell!

[ShadowMaat]

Seriously tptb will not tell us how as they don't even have any idea! "Cloned" tells me they just ran out of ideas. Big shocker!

Fan: So how did we get Carson back?
PTB: He was cloned.
Fan: Yeah, but what about his memories and personality and stuff? How'd that get in there?
PTB: *blank look* He was cloned.
Fan: Right, I heard that; you cloned his body, but what about his personality? That's separate.
PTB: It's a clone of Carson, that's how. Michael copied everything.
Fan: *headdesk*

[Klenotka]

So did I but not due to Teyla. Kinda happens with the flu. We must have seen two different eps because Rachel did a great job IMO.

I am sure we did because Rachel was horrible. She was overplaying so much that it was very obvious. Maybe because Connor Trinneer, who is a very good actor, was in the same scene.
And, I think that everything moved from her brain to her belly, even her reason. I don´t think that "let´s tie Teyla up and let her talk to Michael" is original and inovative. In better days, she would have kicked the guards, saved the Athosians and got away. They have changed her in whinny, scared and unreasonable. And I don´t think it´s bc of the baby or some stress. Teyla isn´t one of those who are breaking down under pressure. And I don´t think that pregnancy is something that would have stopped her. And she would run away while she had a chance.
I honestly hope that she will spend most of S5 somewhere else.

[Falcon Horus]

I am sure we did because Rachel was horrible. She was overplaying so much that it was very obvious. Maybe because Connor Trinneer, who is a very good actor, was in the same scene.
And, I think that everything moved from her brain to her belly, even her reason. I don´t think that "let´s tie Teyla up and let her talk to Michael" is original and inovative. In better days, she would have kicked the guards, saved the Athosians and got away. They have changed her in whinny, scared and unreasonable. And I don´t think it´s bc of the baby or some stress. Teyla isn´t one of those who are breaking down under pressure. And I don´t think that pregnancy is something that would have stopped her. And she would run away while she had a chance.
I honestly hope that she will spend most of S5 somewhere else.

As a true and true Teyla-fan, I have to agree with the whole lot of this. I am in complete agreement, though I have to add, that by somewhere else I just want to see Rachel flourish in something else where her talent doesn't go to total waste.

[cabouse18]

As a true and true Teyla-fan, I have to agree with the whole lot of this. I am in complete agreement, though I have to add, that by somewhere else I just want to see Rachel flourish in something else where her talent doesn't go to total waste.

Yeah if they were hoping this storyline would make Rachel flourish, they were very very wrong. This whole pregnancy thing for Teyla, not Rachel b/c she looked great, was soooo out of character and now that all is pretty much said and done I would have preferred to not have seen her at all this season (ie she disappeared with her people or went all dark and left Atlantis to find her people and then we see her again in the premiere. We could have even gotten glimpes from the neck up of her somewhere along the line....b/c we saw that much this season anyway.) then to have what we have gotten. I just think it hurt her character.

I am die hard Teyla fan and while I am very happy for Rachel.....this storyline for her character was very wrong. Her talent went to waste in this storyline so I am hoping that once the baby is gone we get our old Teyla back.

IMO this is not a show where a pregnancy, unless it is one like Vala's, belongs.

[Chailyn]

Yeah if they were hoping this storyline would make Rachel flourish, they were very very wrong. This whole pregnancy thing for Teyla, not Rachel b/c she looked great, was soooo out of character and now that all is pretty much said and done I would have preferred to not have seen her at all this season (ie she disappeared with her people or went all dark and left Atlantis to find her people and then we see her again in the premiere. We could have even gotten glimpes from the neck up of her somewhere along the line....b/c we saw that much this season anyway.) then to have what we have gotten. I just think it hurt her character.

I like your idea better than the one we currently have. More and more I think they should have just tried to shoot around the pregnancy instead of making the pregnancy fit the character. They could have still kept the "dark" Teyla arc and had her go rogue in revenge of her people. We could have poignant scenes every so often flashing back to Teyla and her search for her people, watching as she slowly becomes more desperate and dark. Then, of course, by time she returns to Atlantis her character would have been clearly defined and evolved. Seeing what the pregnancy arc has done for her in S4, she would have been better off with less screentime and more definition. This has not been a positive season for her, imo. I can't see how she'll be able to logically recover from this mess. If she loses the baby, she'll be affected. If she keeps the baby, she'll be affected. There's no getting around this horrible plot unless we get another complete reset.

[Mitchell82]

I just forced myself to watch The Kindred II... yes, you read it well - forced.

On thursday Anuna asked me what I thought would happen in The Kindred II and I said:



What d'you know? I was spot on.

I'm not sure how long I can stay on this time, I had to jump off earlier because I had another temp spike. Damn flu. But I do want to discuss our different views. I don't think you were right at all. Teyla's "b" plot was not underplayed it flowed nicely IMO.

[QUOTE]ROTFLMAO about the fact that Carson is a clone!!! [/QUOTE}
Why exactly is that funny?

Also I did a little research and went looking for the definition of a few words cause I want to make sure the definition of the words are clear to everyone, and that there is no need to discuss the exact meaning, and to make sure I'm not spouting something that has no source or facts behind it. Back-up, if you will.

Story arc



So, now I know what an arc is, not that I didn't before.



1. Missing (407)
2. ???
3. Kindred I (418)
4. ??? - supposedly Kindred II (419)
5. season 5 maybe?
6. season 5 maybe?

Nope, Teyla didn't have an arc in season 4, not in the least... A Z-plot, however, yes... That she had, playing around in the background.

Uh apparently you didn't look hard enough. Teyla's arc started with Missing, then continued in The Seer, BAMSR, Spoils of War, Quarantine and Kindred 1 and 2 and apparently TLM though Rachel may not actually be in it. So even if she's not in TLM that's 7 eps. defiantly an arc.

Plot or storyline



Yup, there's a definition she fits... not quite but it's there. A background-story, so as not to disturb the foreground players, the lovely Sheppard and McKay.

I disagree with that. Just becuase there are several eps with Shep and Mckay as front runners doesn't make it so in every ep this one included.

Oh, and I have one for the baby too...

Plot device



TPTB fit the bolded part perfectly, imo. You may all agree to disagree with me, I'm sure I will be alone in that belief anyway.

No I believe it's called trying to keep Rachel on screen as much as possible hence writing in her real life pregnancy.

And since it was mentioned...

Plot hole

What plot hole exactly.

Anyway onto the rest of my review...

The good:

*blank*

The mediocre:

*blank*

It seems that you didn't even try to find something to like. If you had to force yourself to watch it maybe you shouldn't have.

The bad:

* Teyla's Z-plot
* the episode in general

The ridiculous:
* Beckett's a clone with a mindlink to Michael
* Teyla's big arc

The EEK!:
* Halling!!! I barely recognized him with no hair and no beard.

My prognosis for Beckett in season 5 - They'll screw him over like hell!

Well I disagree. What you hated I loved.

[Mitchell82]

I am sure we did because Rachel was horrible. She was overplaying so much that it was very obvious. Maybe because Connor Trinneer, who is a very good actor, was in the same scene.
And, I think that everything moved from her brain to her belly, even her reason. I don´t think that "let´s tie Teyla up and let her talk to Michael" is original and inovative. In better days, she would have kicked the guards, saved the Athosians and got away. They have changed her in whinny, scared and unreasonable. And I don´t think it´s bc of the baby or some stress. Teyla isn´t one of those who are breaking down under pressure. And I don´t think that pregnancy is something that would have stopped her. And she would run away while she had a chance.
I honestly hope that she will spend most of S5 somewhere else.

For god's sake give Rachel and Teyla some slack. Neither Rachel nor Teyla could go on an ass kicking spree. And I'm going to assume you have never been witness to someone who is pregnant? Believe me when I say there is a reason the military takes pregnant women off duty.

[cabouse18]

For god's sake give Rachel and Teyla some slack. Neither Rachel nor Teyla could go on an ass kicking spree. And I'm going to assume you have never been witness to someone who is pregnant? Believe me when I say there is a reason the military takes pregnant women off duty.

Exactly, Rachel worked with what the writers gave her and she couldn't be doing backflips or bantos fighting 8 months pregnant! My sister could barely move in the last weeks of her pregnancy. Same with my cousin. At that point both women just wanted the kid out they could at least see their feet agian!!

Which goes to my point that while I give Rachel all the credit for shooting almost up until she popped, the pregnancy never should have been written for the fact that people are criticizing Rachel for her acting and performance when the woman could barely move or do anything and again worked with what the writers handed her.

You think it is soooo easy you go do it!

[Mekarri]

I actually don't have a problem with Carson's part of the storyline. I thought that was the best part of the episode.

I did have several problems with Teyla's part of the storyline. I didn't like that she came off looking so foolish and absolutely helpless. I don't like warrior Teyla being made into the "damsel in distress". I didn't like that she was captured by Michael (again) - I knew this was coming months ago, but Teyla's been captured by Michael three/four times now. It's getting a little old. And frankly, as much as I looked forward to these episodes, this whole storyline with the baby and the Athosians has turned out to be rather dull. I never was overly taken with the Michael storyline from the beginning, either. He's just not that interesting of a villain to me. I don't know why.

I guess I'm just frustrated because I was hoping for better things for Teyla this season. And now here we're at the end of the season, and IMO at least it never really materialized. Everyone kept saying "wait for it, it's coming" - well I waited, and I'm feeling rather let down.

I am in complete agreement. They never gave Teyla much to do. She just kind of been a side kick of shep. But at least in the beginning I enjoyed her independence and intelligence. I also enjoyed her fighting skills. I know you have to be careful while pregnant but you are capture by a Michael there is not much of a chance of getting out alive so I say fight for your life and the life of your baby. Instead THTB got her saying something stupid like I'm not leaving without him (her baby daddy). Are you serious?????

[retiredat44]

If Teyla was intelligent, she would have never went on any mission,, with a baby!!!!!!!

[ShadowMaat]

If Teyla was intelligent, she wouldn't have joined Team Atlantis.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Fan: So how did we get Carson back?
PTB: He was cloned.
Fan: Yeah, but what about his memories and personality and stuff? How'd that get in there?
PTB: *blank look* He was cloned.
Fan: Right, I heard that; you cloned his body, but what about his personality? That's separate.
PTB: It's a clone of Carson, that's how. Michael copied everything.
Fan: *headdesk*

I think copying brain patterns and imprints would do that pretty effectively.

[Heaven]

Exactly, Rachel worked with what the writers gave her and she couldn't be doing backflips or bantos fighting 8 months pregnant!

none is expecting backflips or fighting
the writing was fine, the acting was terrible.
all of Teyla's scenes with Michael were absolutely horrid
and the actor playing Michael actually did a great job.

[Integrabyte]

Fan: So how did we get Carson back?
PTB: He was cloned.
Fan: Yeah, but what about his memories and personality and stuff? How'd that get in there?
PTB: *blank look* He was cloned.
Fan: Right, I heard that; you cloned his body, but what about his personality? That's separate.
PTB: It's a clone of Carson, that's how. Michael copied everything.
Fan: *headdesk*

I can't green you cos I am banned . You made me giggle like a girl