'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[mircalla]

David Hewlett as the next Dotor Who? With acting like he did in this ep thats a win for sure. Also his a massive Dr Fan I hear and I belive he was British Born, keeping the good old Dr at his Routes!

I would love to see that and yes, David Hewlett is British born - from Redhill, Surrey and a Doctor Who fan of long-standing. However, that would mean a sizeable commitment to living in the UK for about half a year at a time. I doubt if this would fit in with the rest of his life.

Also, if Russell T Davies is still having a say, he does not want the Doctor to be over 40 and David is 40 this year. (*Head desk* moment as Jon Pertwee was in his 50's and both Patrick Troughton and Tom Baker were over 40 yet were some of the greatest Doctors).

[Rodneys Gun Tutor]

Teyla should've taken control of Michael like she did with the Wraith queen in SOW and had him shoot himself. Problem solved

[Landers]

I Jokes aside, I have a feeling something will be different from now on with Carson. Maybe I'll get luckay and he'll shoot Keller

That is too quick. I'd love for Keller to run into Todd when he is really hungry.

Teyla should've taken control of Michael like she did with the Wraith queen in SOW and had him shoot himself. Problem solved.

Yeah, it was previously established that Teyla and her child, together possessed great power, enough to control a queen. Michael is part Wraith, and it doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Teyla to control HIM. She never even tried though. *trips into plot hole*

[Briangate78]

Again, I am once confuzzled on people's expectations on this episode. I think Carson being a clone made people judge this ep too harshly. I also think Teyla not being rescued irked some people. I think it is more exciting that Teyla is still captured, and also think it was clever how Carson returned, even if it is a clone.

[MikeRasschaert]

the clone thing was to easy. The fact that Teyla is still captured is a good thing and shows that The Last Man and the first episode of season 5 will be about rescuing Teyla from Michael.
What is with the whole Keller hate thing that is going on? Why do people seem to hate her so much?

[nx01a]

As the Romulans say,
It's a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!

No time for a detailed review now, but I will say that I enjoyed:
>the simple reasoning behind Teyla's child being special, not Super Baby.
>the simple reasoning behind Carsclone [memories not withstanding]
>Michael's weekly 'sedatives'. Brilliant!
>the look on Sam's face watching someone stasised just like Jack under similar desperate circumstances with an uncertain outcome, understanding exactly what the team members were feeling. Even the same type of stasis pod! Nice blocking, tbtp!
>Ronon hugs! AND loses his composure!!! Easy now, slash shippers.
>The Aurora/Replicator misinformation! Nicely done! I was horrified after accidentally seeing an ad, but it was just misdirection which was discredited in the first few minutes of the episode. Nicely done, tptb/Sci-Fi/Ori! Make fans complain then pull a bait and switch. I knew it was a Wraith clone. They're making Michael look better and better every plot twist.
>Teyla NOT being rescued! The classic 'part 2' escape of the 'part 1' kidnappee is sad. Nice to see them drag this out. Besides, Michael's too good for that. Only Asgard plasma beams can stop his plans!

I disliked:
>the lack of the Daedalus. Better show up next episode.
>the lack of Todd. Better show up next episode.
>Kanaan's return of humanity. I would have enjoyed him being completely evil, considering what Michael could do with Carson's memories and personality. Cliche. I assume he'll die saving his woman and child now...
>Michael pretending to be Charles Xavier. How exactly does he plan to mentally command legions of these hybrids? He's obviously already strained since Kanaan's reverting. I suppose that's what the baby's about.

I am ambiguous about:
>Beckett flat out blowing two people away. I know he's been through hell as a prisoner and the emotional ringer with discovering he's a clone and the whole 'omg I'm dying' thing, but he was ridiculously ruthless taking out Teyla's guards. And he was a dang good shot, too. Could OUR Carson shoot like that? And why would Michael have given his captive creation shooting lessons/shooting talent?

Things I wanted to see and thought I would from the guest cast:
>Todd wraithing Halling. I would STILL pay money to see tptb green screen that one!

More after the weekend...*

[nx01a]

Yeah, it was previously established that Teyla and her child, together possessed great power, enough to control a queen. Michael is part Wraith, and it doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Teyla to control HIM. She never even tried though. *trips into plot hole*

I would say that the groundwork for just such a manipulation/control was set up here, with her able to sense his emotions. Wait for it. I'm sure, in the midst of induced labour, mother and child will mess him up.

[Klenotka]

Again, I am once confuzzled on people's expectations on this episode. I think Carson being a clone made people judge this ep too harshly. I also think Teyla not being rescued irked some people. I think it is more exciting that Teyla is still captured, and also think it was clever how Carson returned, even if it is a clone.

I don´t think the main problem is that Carson is a clone. At least not for me. The main problem is that, if I remember correctly, some of the authors said that he will be our flesh and blood Carson. And this Carson is, more or less, ours. With his memories, manners, bonds. But the problem is that people (OK, me) expected the real Carson, real *our* Carson. Not a clone, not AU Carson. That is what annoys me. Authors didn´t lie in this. They never said that he won´t be a clone. But people presumed that he won´t be a clone.

I am not sure if this makes sense.

I personally was sad that Paul left the show. But when is someone dead, he should stay dead.
But Paul and David sold the episode for me. Without them, there would be nothing to watch. So I am glad he was there because of this.

[TOIVA]

But Paul and David sold the episode for me. Without them, there would be nothing to watch. So I am glad he was there because of this.

Yeah, without them, this episode would be nothing (and even with them, it was not such a funny episode).

[Briangate78]

I don´t think the main problem is that Carson is a clone. At least not for me. The main problem is that, if I remember correctly, some of the authors said that he will be our flesh and blood Carson. And this Carson is, more or less, ours. With his memories, manners, bonds. But the problem is that people (OK, me) expected the real Carson, real *our* Carson. Not a clone, not AU Carson. That is what annoys me. Authors didn´t lie in this. They never said that he won´t be a clone. But people presumed that he won´t be a clone.

I am not sure if this makes sense.

I personally was sad that Paul left the show. But when is someone dead, he should stay dead.
But Paul and David sold the episode for me. Without them, there would be nothing to watch. So I am glad he was there because of this.

Yeah I think that was the issue. It's amazing how a misquote can ruin a certain episode. An episode I thought was at least in the top 5 this season. I have to envy the folks who don't venture onto the forums, at least they likely got a better episode since they were not spoiled.

So, yeah it makes total sense. This really ticks me off, because "The Kindred" was ruined for some people due to spoilers. That is not cool in my book.

Well that's my take on it. I still thought spoilers or misquotes it was an amazing episode. The Michael, Carson, and Teyla scene was a shocker so I got that surprise at least.

[Killdeer]

Again, I am once confuzzled on people's expectations on this episode. I think Carson being a clone made people judge this ep too harshly. I also think Teyla not being rescued irked some people. I think it is more exciting that Teyla is still captured, and also think it was clever how Carson returned, even if it is a clone.

I actually don't have a problem with Carson's part of the storyline. I thought that was the best part of the episode.

I did have several problems with Teyla's part of the storyline. I didn't like that she came off looking so foolish and absolutely helpless. I don't like warrior Teyla being made into the "damsel in distress". I didn't like that she was captured by Michael (again) - I knew this was coming months ago, but Teyla's been captured by Michael three/four times now. It's getting a little old. And frankly, as much as I looked forward to these episodes, this whole storyline with the baby and the Athosians has turned out to be rather dull. I never was overly taken with the Michael storyline from the beginning, either. He's just not that interesting of a villain to me. I don't know why.

I guess I'm just frustrated because I was hoping for better things for Teyla this season. And now here we're at the end of the season, and IMO at least it never really materialized. Everyone kept saying "wait for it, it's coming" - well I waited, and I'm feeling rather let down.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't think it was a misquote as much as it was semantics. Joe is extremely clever when it comes to giving vague answers and they often imply things that aren't true. Or at least people read into it whatever they want to even though it often proves to be wrong. Joe says "flesh-and-blood Carson" and fans think it means the real, original Carson when it doesn't. It just means he won't be a robot or a ghost or an alien mimic. Although technically it could have been an alien mimic since the alien would undoubtedly be flesh-and-blood, too. See? It's very easy to tell the truth and still not give the whole picture. And if fans misunderstand what gets said, well, they only have themselves to blame, right?

I think a lot of people went into this expecting to get "our" Carson back and were thus bitterly disappointed to find out it was someone else. Still Carson and still in possession of his personality and most of his memories, but a decidedly separate individual from the one who died in Sunday. Now maybe TPTB honestly believe that the clone really IS still "our" Carson minus a couple years of memories/experiences in which case Joe's answer was all the more truthful, but from where I'm sitting that's a pretty naive outlook. I've already weighed in on why I think clones aren't the same as the original, but basically I don't think a clone can be the same any more than an AU version of someone is the same. So if the complaint is that we don't have "our" Carson back I can fully understand the grievance because they're right. If the complaint is that Joe "lied" to us, well, what do you expect? He's Joe. He can lie even when telling the truth and then blame you for misunderstanding him. And he'd be right.

[user998413167984131]

Fantastic episode, nice to see carson back.

As someone has already mentioned why not a sarcophogas, or however you spell it back on earth?

Or a tokra symbiote

[ScifigirlSG]

As I watched this episode, it dawned on me that Michael is trying to create his own 'collective'. Reminds me of another tv show.

[user998413167984131]

Abit like the borg in star trek.

One question has just dawned on me, if michael has taken away the need to feed. Will he as a wraith die, or can he still live forever?