'Spoils of War' (412) General Discussion

[seldear]

I loved this episode - it hit all my Stargate Atlantis buttons. I'm biased towards Teyla, her Wraithgene abilities, John/Teyla, Teyla/Lorne, and episodes with the team (John, Teyla, Rodney, Ronon). This episode had them all.

So I adored this episode. Character development of Teyla? I'm always up for that!

I just considered that concept an "homage" to the Dune novel, where Lady Jessica encountered the same problem with her daughter, Alia, while pregnant (and after having drank some of the spice water).

LOL, Morj. Isn't all science-fiction an 'homage' to some other science-fiction in some way, shape, or form?

And in answer to someone earlier (I've lost the post) pointing out that the team didn't explicitly inform Atlantis where they were going or what they were doing... I assumed that they did tell Atlantis, and simply didn't have time to show it in the context of the storyline.

Sometimes, we have to use our imaginations to fill in the gaps of expected things. Just because Ronon's never mentioned his parents doesn't mean he never had any!

The Wraith/Ancient history lesson was intriguing - and something that's been sorely needed. I do wonder, though, what Todd was thinking, giving them that information. That Wraith does seems to be switching sides, ever so slowly. From being an enemy with no quarter given, to assisting them against a mutual enemy, to assisting them against his own kind...

I can't help wondering if, at some point, they're going to juxtapose Todd with Michael - showing two Wraith who've been changed by their interactions with Atlantis. Michael's bitter history of being forced to comply compared with Todd's series of (more or less freewill) alliances.

The John/Teyla angle was marvellous to see - especially after last week's issues. Personally, I think that John reacted last week as one would expect: protective and angry and hurt. Personally, I think that Teyla was justified to want to continue going on missions with her team given her people's active background.

I think they were both "right" in their own ways, coming from their individual histories and cultures.

The fact is that John 'won' the argument about Teyla not going on missions through his command position. He's the commander, he makes the calls. As is his right as the commander of the team.

And in this episode Teyla came to the realisation that she can't risk her child - but not for the reasons that are implied by John and our Earth perspective. It's not because she's pregnant and therefore helpless or delicate or fragile - but because the choice she might have to make between her child and her team is too terrible to be contemplated.

Yes, I know, walking the middle road, pleasing nobody. It's the story of my fandom experience!

Anyway, 10/10 for this one. Rewatchable, provides storyline meta and character meta, relationships between characters, action/suspense/drama... It's pretty much my favourite episode ever!

Sel.

[DigiFluid]

This is how Atlantis should be being done. BAMSR was alright, but flashy special effects and plot holes you can drive a truck through do not a good episode make.

SoW had great characterization, performances, appearances by not one but several major recurring characters, followed up on established plot elements, explored show mythology, and left the door open for further plot exploration based on this episode.

Hopefully the remainder of season 4 is more like SoW, and much less like most of the episodes of the first half of the season. If the show had been being more like this for the last three and a half years, I'd probably be a lot less jaded about it....

[Pitry]

Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts and of course, at the end comes to the conclusion the supeior male officer was right all along and she should be grateful for the peanuts is not my idea of how integrating women in armies should look like. Not where the feminist movement was heading.

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

Rest was slightly boring.

[suse]

Perhaps as soon as the hive started on it's ramming course the other hive stopped firing so as to not put the facility in danger of friendly fire..

She set course in *space* It would seem to be pretty obvious what she was doing when she aimed at the planet... Plenty of time whatwith re-entry and all...

suse

[Cautious Explorer]

The good: Teyla played a real part in the story line.

Real character interaction. I loved the Teyla/John scenes.

Ronon and Rodney are becoming a great comedic team.

No replicators!

The bad: Weak Wraith. The makeup, wigs and even the voices all seemed to be a half -hearted effort. Compare them to Steve and the original Wraith queen and they seem pretty shabby and non-threatening.

The story bogged down in the middled-- too talky. The escape from the Wraith complex wasn't all that suspenseful.

Teyla's mental fight with the Wraith queen, while handled well by both actresses, was a little jarring for me since we've never seen the mental control portrayed that way in any other episode, and even within the same episode we didn't see her attempts to assert control over Sheppard shown in the same way.

Overall the great character moments and the focus on the whole team (including Lorne and bits of Zelenka) made up for everything else.

[igger]

For me that that was the best episode of the season, far better than BAMSR which dragged imo, it gave a back story to the original war between the ancients and wraith and character interaction was there between all the characters main and secondary (Todd, Lorne Zalenka) characters. Building to be the best season so far.

[SGFerrit]

Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts and of course, at the end comes to the conclusion the supeior male officer was right all along and she should be grateful for the peanuts is not my idea of how integrating women in armies should look like. Not where the feminist movement was heading.

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

Rest was slightly boring.

What, would you rather she had an abortion so she could still go on missions? She put her babies life at risk by continuing to go on missions and not telling Shep. He had every right to act the way he did.

[rarocks24]

Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts and of course, at the end comes to the conclusion the supeior male officer was right all along and she should be grateful for the peanuts is not my idea of how integrating women in armies should look like. Not where the feminist movement was heading.

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

Rest was slightly boring.

A pregnant woman has NO place on the battlefield, AT ALL. Not only is the child at risk, so is she. Her commanding officer barred her from going on missions because she was physically incapable of doing it, and going on such missions were risking her life. A commanding officer doesn't want that on his conscience, and to do something like that would be basically signing a death warrant. This has nothing to do at all with feminism. Teyla realized that he was right, and that he was only looking out for her and her child.

He needed someone to help and she was the only one that could. They gained valuable intel and Teyla, had Sheppard's team not been captured by the Wraith, would have been perfectly safe. Sheppard reiterated the threat that Teyla was putting herself to, and Teyla recognized the threat and understood the reasons Sheppard made his decision.

The entire episode had nothing to do with feminism. It had everything to do with a mother who was constantly putting her child at risk realizing that she was and the people that cared about her and decided she shouldn't/wouldn't, were right.

[Pitry]

What, would you rather she had an abortion so she could still go on missions? She put her babies life at risk by continuing to go on missions and not telling Shep. He had every right to act the way he did.

A pregnant woman has NO place on the battlefield, AT ALL. Not only is the child at risk, so is she. Her commanding officer barred her from going on missions because she was physically incapable of doing it, and going on such missions were risking her life. A commanding officer doesn't want that on his conscience, and to do something like that would be basically signing a death warrant. This has nothing to do at all with feminism. Teyla realized that he was right, and that he was only looking out for her and her child.

He needed someone to help and she was the only one that could. They gained valuable intel and Teyla, had Sheppard's team not been captured by the Wraith, would have been perfectly safe. Sheppard reiterated the threat that Teyla was putting herself to, and Teyla recognized the threat and understood the reasons Sheppard made his decision.

The entire episode had nothing to do with feminism. It had everything to do with a mother who was constantly putting her child at risk realizing that she was and the people that cared about her and decided she shouldn't/wouldn't, were right.

And you've both hit the nail ont he head and yet continue to miss the point.
Unless you're a religious/right winged and hold the opinion that abortion is murder, most people today accept that it is the mother's call whether to perform an abortion. Her body, her life, her choice.
This episode would have left a much better taste in my mouth had John said "I don't want you to go but as long as you're physically capable, it's your choice."
But no, that's not the case. He's ordering her not to go. Which is exactly the same anti abortion agenda. Your three months foetus, without a sense of self or mind or whatnot, is a baby, not a foetus, and termination of the pregnancy os murder, nothing else.
Which is an opinion. One private people are allowed to have IMO, even if I disagree, but not force it on others. Or, in other words, if this is the view the writers are taking, they shoudl accept and ackonwledge there's a controversy on the matter rather than act as if it's taken for granted.
It's not.

If Teyla is willing to risk her foetus and risk an abortion in order to go out on missions it's her right. After all, she's putting her life - by her own choice - on the line every time she goes out on missions. Sheppard should only stop her once her pregnancy becomes more pronoucned and is risking the lives of the rest of the team. And I'm sorry, but at her current state of pregnancy she's neither putting herself nor her teammates in any sort of jeopardy. In a couple of months, yes. Not now.

Thing is, even with this current pliot, it coudl all have been done to teh same conclusion but in a much less chauvinist way. Had John told her he prefers her not to go because she's risking her foetus, but it's her call.... and then she would meet the Wraith Queen, risk her feotus and reach her own conclusion that she prefers to stand back and not put her baby in risk. With this I would have had no rpbolem. It's the fact it'st aken for granted it is the male's right - a male who sin't even the father - to order her about choices she makes that I'm opposed to.

And BTW, for all those who so dearly care for this baby, what happens after he's born and Teyla resumes active duty- as I've no doubt she would? Now, risking leaving your child without a mother sounds to me a lot more careless and selfish and irresponsible and downright criminal than risking an abortion and never having the child in the first place.

[Briangate78]

What, would you rather she had an abortion so she could still go on missions? She put her babies life at risk by continuing to go on missions and not telling Shep. He had every right to act the way he did.

I agree as well. He was upset because she did not tell him. He did not want to put her in danger, so when he needed her to fly the ship he had to approach it carefully to Teyla. In the end, after what happened with the Queen, she realized Sheppard was right and that she needed to protect her child and everything else has to be put on hold for now.

[Briangate78]

And BTW, for all those who so dearly care for this baby, what happens after he's born and Teyla resumes active duty- as I've no doubt she would? Now, risking leaving your child without a mother sounds to me a lot more careless and selfish and irresponsible and downright criminal than risking an abortion and never having the child in the first place.

Dr. Keller will be returning next season as Teyla's baby nanny. While Carson returns as CMO!

[Pitry]

Dr. Keller will be returning next season as Teyla's baby nanny. While Carson returns as CMO!

Nice joke, but avoids the moral implication of a single (presumebly, at this point) mother willingly risking her life.

[marielabbott]

Nice joke, but avoids the moral implication of a single (presumebly, at this point) mother willingly risking her life.

I'm concerned how they will write this too. If I was a single mom, I'd need a very, very good reason to risk my life daily.

[Vala_M]

I am curious what made come to that theory. The Aurora episode said that the weakness had been erased form logs. I don't remember it saying anything about the weakness not existing

Because no one on the crew knew exactly what that information was and by faking that there WAS information, the Wraith could get the captain to work on the hyperdrive, thereby learning how to upgrade their own hyperdrive.

Vala,

[knowles2]

obviously a small baby will be boring to watch.

So for reason, i do not know genetic modifications or two the baby will grow up fast enough to look after it self and be able to kick butt, it simpler for the writers, and far more entertaining than who gonna be a baby sitter of the week storyline and well it could that the wraith will kill the baby or perhaps telya or the baby dies during birth.