'Doppelganger' (404) General Discussion

[AGateFan]

Oh please, when the fangirls drool over Joe Flanigan or Jason Momoa it's fine, but when the fanboys drool over Jewel or Rachel it's OMG T+A BADNESS!!11!!

Double standard anyone? I've had enough of this crap.

I see you also avoided the fact that she was indeed unsure of herself, thereby making her NOT a Mary Sue. But hey, if avoiding the facts makes it easier to put forward your "arguments", then so be it.

Odd, I did think when Ronan was originally brought in over Ford that this was more for eye candy and ego identifying......but then who knew he would end up the deepest character.

As for Keller... T&A? Really? I must be missing something, she’s not in leather, she’s not in pigtails, she’s not throwing out sexual innuendos or even hitting on anyone (appeared even shocked that someone thought she wanted to date someone) and her jacket is zipped higher then even Carters.

To me Straight does not appear to have been brought in for T&A, I am not sure why they decided to get rid of Carson but I can buy that they just cast Keller afterwards just because they liked the actress. But I am not convinced they liked her for her T&A rating, after all, the last time she was on the show she was a bug. The people they cast for T&A are the girls that hit on Sheppard and wear lots low cut leather or spandexy type stuff. (And no I am not talking about Teyla, but I do think that is one of her original functions on the show based on her wardrobe. I think she is a better character then that and could be even a BETTER character but so far they have just left her as pretty wallpaper).

[Mitchell82]

As others have stated, there were parts that were recylced from Cold Lazarus, but it did have a twist. The perspective shots from the crystal were vertually the same, and so was the "shock" that Sheppard got. It was the same sequence to CL: Sheppard looks at crystal, crystal looks back, Sheppard touches crystal, crystal shocks Sheppard. That whole sequence is exactly the same as CL, all you need to do it change the name to O'Neill and you can describe that sequence in Cold Lazarus. The differences come after that sequence. But it still feels recycled. They could have atleast made the crystals a different color, perhaps to denote a difference in the mentality of the crystal. Also, since this is a completely seperate series, anyone not familiar to SG-1: Cold Lazarus may not get the references. So why bother with them unless it is meant to link SG-1 fans to this new series? I'm sure someone, if not McKay, has read the mission reports including the one about "Cold Lazarus", so anyone could have made the references. And I think that would have worked MUCH better for the story and for Sam. IE: Someone remembers an old mission report about a crystaline entity like this and know that Sam was part of the team that experienced it, so they turn to her for guidance. It would make the references feel more like contribution rather than gloating about her breadth of experience. And that would go a long way in making Sam a more welcome character and contribute to the team bonding.

I disagree. The perspective view as you put it was similar yes but different. It didn't look anywhere near that. I'll grant you the shock but the similarity ends there. I still don't see it as recycled nor a nock off from SG-1 also you wouldn't need to know about that incident to like or understand the ep as I've said it is completly different and the crystals themselves looked nowhere near what the ones from Cold Lazarus did. I don't think it would have been better if done the way you suggested.

Oh please. That is not the "backbone" of SciFi. It is part of the repertoi of SciFi, but not what makes it SciFi. There is sooo much more to SciFi than just that little part. And if that's your idea of what SciFi is, then you are missing out on a lot of other goodies. If those were the back bone of scifi then you wouldn't need anyother kind of characters other than doctors and scientists.

Mabey not but it is a key part that's my point.

What I would like to see out of scifi, is more Macgyverisms, more engineering, more exploration, more cultural and political themes, etc. I don't want to see so much medicine or psychology in scifi. It's like comparing the movies "Platoon" and "Born on the 4th of July". Both are about Vietnam, and the struggles it caused, but they approach it in different ways. I prefer the Platoon style to the "BOTFOJ" way. I prefer the action to move the drama and plot, not the drama dictating the action to move the plot.

And we get a nice ballance of both in SGA so still not seeing your point.

Of those episodes that you list, I only liked Hot Zone, Duet, and Submersion. It's just ironic that, each of those come from different seasons.

Well to each his own but I loved all of them.

However, you did forget the "mind control" that the replicators did in Progeny and in The Return, and what about the halucinations they have in Echoes? Or how about the drug induced behavior modification type of mind control in Irresistable?

Yeah I did and while I'll agree Irresistable wasnt the best I still enjoyed the ep and found it very funny a nice respit from the intense drama and angst of the previous eps. As to the others well they were great eps and a perfect description of blending all the elements of scifi well.

Abeit, not prime themes of the episodes, it is a persistant element they seem to use in their writings far more than I like. It's just something I don't want any more of for a while, a long while. I think part of the reason they do it so often is, that it's an inexpensive way to tell a story.

Well personally I love those kind of eps but as I've stated they have a nice ballance and this season is no exception. As to the inexpensive part you're way off. The only inexpensive ep was Irresistable. Return was expensive due to vis effects and RDA. Echoes also had alot of vis effects as did the others.

My point was, and it's just my view, that the episode wasn't really about HIM, it was about the crystal entity and it's effects. He was merely a tool to bring about the crystal's effects, it wasn't really about his struggles with or because of the crystal. Conversion was very much so a Shep epi. It was about his struggle with his problem, not the problem itself.

Again I disagree. It was about the crystal but it was also about his struggle with it.

I take it you're part of the Sam Carter fanclub then. I'm not.

Yup.

Atleast we can agree on something.

Savor it while it lasts.

Well, here we do disagree. The first three episodes were good, very good. But this one was quite the letdown for me. The story did not match up in quality to the directing and visual style in my book.

Again I disagree. It was of excellent quality.

[prion]

Oh please, when the fangirls drool over Joe Flanigan or Jason Momoa it's fine, but when the fanboys drool over Jewel or Rachel it's OMG T+A BADNESS!!11!!

Double standard anyone? I've had enough of this crap.

I see you also avoided the fact that she was indeed unsure of herself, thereby making her NOT a Mary Sue. But hey, if avoiding the facts makes it easier to put forward your "arguments", then so be it.

I agree. The double standard must stop! If we can see Teyla in a blouse cut down to, well, enough, then they oughta do the same for the guys (and not just Ronon). Time to rip off Shep's shirt! Oh wait, wait, this isn't the Shep Whump thread. Must slink off now...

If anyone on the show is a Mary Sue, I'd say it was Sheppard.

Nah, he's not perfect. He's screwed up enough (one reason he's in the PG in the first place). Plus, male Mary Sues are Marty Sues. A classic example is Wesley Crusher on ST:TNG. The ship is going to go down in flames and he'll save the day!

Dr. Kavanaugh is on everyone's "ignore" or "lockout" list. It's possible in a security situation Teyla could have called the command center and gotten an override on her way there.

Nah, he's not on Rodney's lock out list. See, Rodney set up a booby trap for when Kavanagh enters, he gets zapped by the PEgasus Galaxy version of an electric rat trap (cobbled together from Wraith stun weapons). Painful, humilitating but not damaging or lethal. "Just an experiement," he says pitifully to Weir, who frowns at him. "I mean, we should have backup security systems, after all."...

As for Keller... T&A? Really? I must be missing something, she’s not in leather, she’s not in pigtails, she’s not throwing out sexual innuendos or even hitting on anyone (appeared even shocked that someone thought she wanted to date someone) and her jacket is zipped higher then even Carters.

Keller's hardly T&A as you need to push up front the "T", after all. Many Athosian women filled that bill (or Lucius' wives!) They have sexed up Carter with the blouse, and I think she'd look better if she unzipped that tight jacket as it's not flattering (sorry sorry, it's a bugaboo with me)

Meanwhile, remember, Mary Sue's are perfect, usually blonde (but "wavy locks cascading down to their tight ass" - I still remember that quote from a Trek fanfic eons ago) so Carter realistically needs to undo the Little House on the Prairie braiding

[Falcon Horus]

yeah sorry i realise that. I didn't mean to be as rude as i probably seemed. It just confuses me that's all.

Oh no, I didn't think it was rude or anything. I was just formulating some sort of conclusion.

Trust me, you're not the only one confused sometimes.

[ShadowMaat]

I understand what you're saying. Although I'm not sure about getting most of the storylines and witty dialogue. I think he and McKay share that honor.

True enough: whatever stories Shep doesn't get, McKay does. Whatever witty lines Shep doesn't get, McKay does. Yes, Shep is the lead, but I feel as if Teyla and Ronon get continually shafted in nearly every episode- except, of course, for the Token Teyla Ep and the Token Ronon Ep per season. One or two eps per season out of twenty or so isn't exactly what I'd call balanced. Teyla and Ronon are main characters, too; might be nice if TPTB remembered that a little more often.

And I'm not going to get into a semantics fit over Mary vs. Marty Sue. The meaning is clear either way.

[Aussie_Fan]

This ep was like a medioca episode of Star Trek. I'm tossing up which episode I loathe more.. this one, or Irresistable/Irresponsible. It's a toughie!

Everything seemed so long and drawn out. The dialogue especially. The teaser had me squirming in my seat yelling "get to the point!" Likewise, the scene where they were discussing Alien had me yelling the same thing.

The "nightmares" were more weird then scary and the fight scene at the end was really lame and drawn out. The only reason I sat through the whole ep was 'cause I read that Lizzie was mentioned.

I guess there has to be one bad episode with which we can compare the great ones to...

[ShadowMaat]

Compared to the nightmares I have, the Atlantis team got off easy.

[PG15]

^Why am I not surprised.

Fangirl/boy-ing becomes a problem when a character is designed specifically to fulfil that purpose. Is Sheppard just a window-dressing? Is Ronon there so the drooling women would watch SGA? They are there so the fanboys can identify with them.

Proof to me that Keller was "designed" to fulfil that purpose.

Next, we'll be nitpicking that Keller's walking round in her PJ's (to clarify, not Puddle Jumpers )and how unprofessional it is. Personally, I think this whole thread should be about evil Shep, and how fabby his is, but then i'll start having fangirl moments, and de-rail the thread with talk that Shep should have been shirtless. Then PG15 will get upset as he's not allowed to have any fanboy moments... there'll be tears and tantrums, he'll be so upset, he'll storm off and start fondling the flocking as it's his comfort blanket. It's not a pretty sight ya know.

*runs and hides*

You better run!

*storms off and...not fondle flocking?*

The only episode that was an almost exact rip off was The Ark. No plot creativity there. I liked Doppleganger. But, is it just me, or are the episode lengths shrinking? It just seems like everything is over in a short time period.

The Ark? Really?

I mean, I'm fine with you saying it's unoriginal, but..."The Ark"? I don't see any similarities whatsoever.

[Jumper_One]

Compared to the nightmares I have, the Atlantis team got off easy.

I second that

[smushybird]

I loved this episode.

I liked seeing more team interaction. I hope that's just the beginning.

One thing I especially liked was Rodney's determination to go back and rescue John. That struck me as a really sweet moment, one that stood out for me in the episode. I like strong, determined, brave Rodney.

I liked Keller, but I do still miss Beckett.

Sam's doing a great job. I love having Sam on SGA.

Congratulations, SGA, on winning a fifth season.
I think you've earned it.

[PhatChance]

Crappy episode. It was generic and formulaic. Nightmares? LOL

1. Visit generic planet with evil alien of the week
2. Alien took over
3. Alien thwarted

[P-90_177]

i find it strange that there is almost a fifty fifty split between people who thought this ep was totally great and original and those who thought it was dumb and generic.

[Falcon Horus]

i find it strange that there is almost a fifty fifty split between people who thought this ep was totally great and original and those who thought it was dumb and generic.

Why would that be strange?

[Alipeeps]

Crappy episode. It was generic and formulaic. Nightmares? LOL

1. Visit generic planet with evil alien of the week
2. Alien took over
3. Alien thwarted

Tbh, you could distill just about any episode down to a similar basic formula - I think you may be oversimplifying the concepts.

[Mrja84]

Ok people, Ronon's fear is not being buried alive!


The started out like this:

Ronon realized he was alone in Atlantis (abandonment issues, fear of losing them), then he's in the jungle with Wraith shooting at him (He's a Runner again).

EvilShepard was only *in* the dream and showing his fears. He isn't necessary apart of it and therefore him burying Ronon is his own actions, not Ronon's fear.

Of course, after the events with his fellow Satedans, it could be Ronon's fear of being betrayed.