'Doppelganger' (404) General Discussion

[Ruffles]

If anyone on the show is a Mary Sue, I'd say it was Sheppard.

Really? The guy that woke the Wraith and stays in trouble with authority? I guess I don't think of any of them as Mary Sues. They all have flaws in my eyes.

[P-90_177]

My sister (semi-casual viewer) just watched this episode and I asked what she thought of it.

She wasn't impressed, not in the least. Her exact words -> "Deja-vu!"
Also she would prefer it if Carter would stop referencing to SG1-missions and apparently Sam even channeled Daniel at one point.
And then she also said that she had the impression they sometimes tend to bring Teyla into a scene she has nothing else to do in but be her beautiful self.

This was in other words a complete miss in her opinion.

i really don't get why people don't like this ep becasue they say it's been done on SG-1. yes the first scene was extremely similar to cold lazarus but what's the problem with that? The rest of the show was completely different. It's a plot that's never been dealt with in either series and i think it was done beautifully.

[Falcon Horus]

i really don't get why people don't like this ep becasue they say it's been done on SG-1. yes the first scene was extremely similar to cold lazarus but what's the problem with that? The rest of the show was completely different. It's a plot that's never been dealt with in either series and i think it was done beautifully.

Well, it is all in the eye of the beholder... nothing much can change that, I'm afraid.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

The only episode that was an almost exact rip off was The Ark. No plot creativity there. I liked Doppleganger. But, is it just me, or are the episode lengths shrinking? It just seems like everything is over in a short time period.

[P-90_177]

Well, it is all in the eye of the beholder... nothing much can change that, I'm afraid.

yeah sorry i realise that. I didn't mean to be as rude as i probably seemed. It just confuses me that's all.

[ShadowMaat]

Really? The guy that woke the Wraith and stays in trouble with authority? I guess I don't think of any of them as Mary Sues. They all have flaws in my eyes.

He gets most of the storylines, a good portion of the witty dialogue and the attention of almost every female he meets. Maybe "Mary Sue" isn't quite the right tag for him since that does imply perfection, but I do think he's wish fulfillment for TPTB and as often as he "screws up" and bucks authority, that also generally gives him the opportunity to play Hero and Save the Day.

It's only my opinion, though, and given the incredible popularity of the character I know there are many who'd disagree with my interpretation of things. *shrug* Not really worth an argument, that's just how I see him.

[Ruffles]

He gets most of the storylines, a good portion of the witty dialogue and the attention of almost every female he meets. Maybe "Mary Sue" isn't quite the right tag for him since that does imply perfection, but I do think he's wish fulfillment for TPTB and as often as he "screws up" and bucks authority, that also generally gives him the opportunity to play Hero and Save the Day.

It's only my opinion, though, and given the incredible popularity of the character I know there are many who'd disagree with my interpretation of things. *shrug* Not really worth an argument, that's just how I see him.

I understand what you're saying. Although I'm not sure about getting most of the storylines and witty dialogue. I think he and McKay share that honor. But he is the lead in the show so I don't find it that surprising. I am obviously a big Sheppard fan, but I too would like to see some of the wealth spread to Teyla and Ronon. And a little to Lorne and Zelenka. As for the female attention, since we'll never agree on that, I'll leave it alone.

[jckfan55]

I think it could have been...but Jen qualified her comment. To me it looked like she really meant what she said and then, realizing who she said it to, added that she didn't need to hear that from her. I think she realized that it could have sounded presumptuous and wanted Carter to know that she meant it with the best of intentions.

But Carter understood what she was saying and appreciated both the words and the sentiment. Regardless of how long her service record has been, I'm sure it's always nice to know that someone found some small measure of comfort and strength in what she says.

Yeah, I felt it was sort of like Keller was thinking Carter made a good little speech--was a little uncomfortable saying something, but felt she should-- then felt like who am I to be telling the commander she did a good job? I thought JS conveyed those mixed feelings well. And as the new kid, Carter is still getting a sense of how people feel about being there, so it didn't hurt to hear it. It has to be weird making those kind of speeches.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Glad you'e mentioned the perfect character requirement, although I was thinking more the quick-and-close-friendships-with-main-characters part) This is how Mallozzi described Keller in his blog of yesterday:

Anonymous #3 writes: “Just what does Keller bring to SGA that Beckett could not?”

My Name is Scott answered: “HOW MANY times to people have to be told that Weir and Carson were NOT gotten rid of FOR Carter and Keller. The decision to bring Carter and Keller was made AFTER the decision to rid Weir and Carson... why is this hard to get?? Wow!”

Anonymous #4 writes: “This is not an attack on jewel Staite, casting her as a junior doctor or a junior scientist or junior archaeologist may have worked but this is frankly ridiculous.”

Answer: So, you buy the near-instantaneous travel through a wormhole? You buy the life-sucking aliens? But you have a hard time accepting the possibility of a young virtuoso?

Now, if that's not a perfect MS, I don't know what is

My answer to Anonymous#3: BOOBS and A$$!!!

Would you say the same about any other young prodege's like Mozzart?

And what's wrong with tits and ass? We have the boys to drool over, and given that TPTB and their demographics apparantly feel that the majority of scifi viewers are male, they want to appeal to that demographic. But I hardly think Sam and Keller were brought in for eye candy. And even if they were, so what, let the lads have their fanboy time. There are young doctors, you know. it's not as if this is a rare occurence... but that's not to say that I don't miss Carson's touch to. Getting used to keller will take me a few more eps I think, and it's got nothing to do with her age, it's simply an adjustment. I like the fact that she has some uncertainty. I honestly don't think that someone going into that sort of situation will feel at home. I mean look how long it's taken all the others to adjust, so why should she be singled out for feeling a touch apprehensive?

Oh please, when the fangirls drool over Joe Flanigan or Jason Momoa it's fine, but when the fanboys drool over Jewel or Rachel it's OMG T+A BADNESS!!11!!

Double standard anyone? I've had enough of this crap.

I see you also avoided the fact that she was indeed unsure of herself, thereby making her NOT a Mary Sue. But hey, if avoiding the facts makes it easier to put forward your "arguments", then so be it.

Double standards? I expect nothing less!

If anyone on the show is a Mary Sue, I'd say it was Sheppard.

Mary Sue? *imagines Shep in a kilt*

Fangirl/boy-ing becomes a problem when a character is designed specifically to fulfil that purpose. Is Sheppard just a window-dressing? Is Ronon there so the drooling women would watch SGA? They are there so the fanboys can identify with them.

It's hard to talk about facts when all we do here is express our opinions. Keller fits my definition of MS perfectly. You don't have to agree.

Just because they're easy on the eye, do you think they'd last 4 years if that's all they were capable of? Looking good on camera? I think not.

Drool all you want. No double standard here. JF is completely hot, and if they keep dressing Jason in that sleeveless leather outfit, I may have to install another cooling system in my house.

For me - the fact that Jewel is young and cute has no bearing on how I view Keller. I can just as easily believe that Rodney has 3-4 PhDs and years of experience at his age and that Sheppard would be allowed in the active military with that haircut. Keller is a brilliant doctor that is unsure of herself and a bit overwhelmed at the position she has found herself in.

Carson was not only chief surgeon but an unparalleled geneticist and had a thorough knowledge of triage and oncology. Sure. The same way Rodney knows everything about everything and John can shoot like a sniper, fly anything in 2 galaxies, and strategize like a general. They are all young virtuosos.

Well said hon!

He gets most of the storylines, a good portion of the witty dialogue and the attention of almost every female he meets. Maybe "Mary Sue" isn't quite the right tag for him since that does imply perfection, but I do think he's wish fulfillment for TPTB and as often as he "screws up" and bucks authority, that also generally gives him the opportunity to play Hero and Save the Day.

It's only my opinion, though, and given the incredible popularity of the character I know there are many who'd disagree with my interpretation of things. *shrug* Not really worth an argument, that's just how I see him.

Umm maybe he gets that because Joe's the lead? And given we know more about Rodney than we do about Sheppard, he hasn't been that prominant otherwise we'd know everything about him.

I can't see him being a Mary/marty Sue given he does screw up. And from my understanding Marty/Mary Sue's are all supposed to be perfect aren't they? Ergo, I fear Shadow your argument is slightly flawed.

[jckfan55]

My impression of the atlantis door system is that you make a list of who is/isn't allowed to enter. and you can also lock the doors...although the control room can override those locks. You can also 'ring the doorbell' out of courtesy

Dr. Kavanaugh is on everyone's "ignore" or "lockout" list. It's possible in a security situation Teyla could have called the command center and gotten an override on her way there.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Dr. Kavanaugh is on everyone's "ignore" or "lockout" list. It's possible in a security situation Teyla could have called the command center and gotten an override on her way there.

that wouldn't surprise me. Personally I saw it as Teyla checking on her friend. I don't think they're locked. All the time we've seen people turn up, they either call out or just walk in. Teyla's done it with Shep (minds out the gutter) Weir's done it with Shep (again, minds out the gutter). Sam had her door open in Reunion. Ronon walked in on McKay in Sunday. So I don't see this being an issue... and yet it is.

[jckfan55]

We need something to talk about until the next new episode, you know.

[Pegasus_SGA]

We need something to talk about until the next new episode, you know.

Next, we'll be nitpicking that Keller's walking round in her PJ's (to clarify, not Puddle Jumpers )and how unprofessional it is. Personally, I think this whole thread should be about evil Shep, and how fabby his is, but then i'll start having fangirl moments, and de-rail the thread with talk that Shep should have been shirtless. Then PG15 will get upset as he's not allowed to have any fanboy moments... there'll be tears and tantrums, he'll be so upset, he'll storm off and start fondling the flocking as it's his comfort blanket. It's not a pretty sight ya know.

*runs and hides*

[Ruffles]

Next, we'll be nitpicking that Keller's walking round in her PJ's (to clarify, not Puddle Jumpers )and how unprofessional it is. Personally, I think this whole thread should be about evil Shep, and how fabby his is, but then i'll start having fangirl moments, and de-rail the thread with talk that Shep should have been shirtless. Then PG15 will get upset as he's not allowed to have any fanboy moments... there'll be tears and tantrums, he'll be so upset, he'll storm off and start fondling the flocking as it's his comfort blanket. It's not a pretty sight ya know.

*runs and hides*

Ah, Peg. It is obviously WAY past your bedtime.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Ah, Peg. It is obviously WAY past your bedtime.

Really? Am I making less sense than normal? That's so unlike me, hon. Normally i'm the font of all knowledge. My words of wisdome always aide people in coming round to my way of thinking, because they know i'm never wrong in such matters. But, I think i'll take your words of wisdom, hon and head off before I derail the thread any further.