Jeeze louse,, 16 pages since yesterday.... Wow.
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Originally posted by P-90_177 View Postnot neccesarily. I mean the yare friends. quite close too from what i can tell. Perhaps they'd organised to have breakfast that morning, or even planned to have a follow up session from when she had that dream about shep. She went to wherever they planned to meet up. She never arrived. Teyla first thought she was just late, then got more concerned, tried to get her on the radio and then finally went down to her room where she found that she had never woken up. it doesn't take much stretch of the imagination to work out........on the other hand she really may have gone for a quickie.Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"
^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?
AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.
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Originally posted by ShadowMaat View PostAre we meant to believe that Heightmeyer dreamed she died and thus died for real? I found that whole thing very confusing because we got the scene from Teyla's perspective and Teyla was the one who was worried about the "real" Heightmeyer. If it was the doc's dream, though, what was the point of Teyla being in it? And why did Teyla wake up worried? Are they supposed to be friends or something? And again, if it was her dream, why see it from Teyla's POV? Dream logic can be a little screwy sometimes, but in all the other dreams the dreamer was at the center of whatever was happening.
If it was Teyla's dream, though, why would Heightmeyer be dead in the waking world? And why would the entity have gone back to her, anyway?
I think that's part of why I didn't take the death very seriously. The perspective was wrong, Carter's speech was appallingly trite and the "bonding" moment she shared with Keller was so... cheesy that I couldn't believe it was all really happening. It was a particularly bad piece of writing in an all-around bad script. That's what I think, anyway.
We never saw Teyla wake up or know what had happened to Kate in her dream - Teyla explained that she had come looking for Kate because she hadn't shown up for work. Teyla and Kate were friends.
Originally posted by AGateFan View PostShe died of cliche.
Seriously, "if you die in your dreams you die in real life" is a long accepted scifi cliche. Knowing this it was easy to summize it was Kates dream....after I got over the intial vertigo of it not being Telyas dream (and after I figured out who exactly it was that died... I didnt recognize her out of uniform nor did I recognize her first name, even if I cant spell her last )
Originally posted by AGateFan View PostThe references to SG-1 made sense in context since the plot was essentially taken from there. And since they needed the gamekeeper gear. If Carter had not been there, one of the others (or whatever leader they added in Weirs absence) would have had to bring it up. At least in this case Carter could do a quick, well we ran into it and then they could move on...not someone saying how they read SG-1 ran into it and then explain it. I actually think having Carter there may cut down on some of the explanation since no one has to explain how they came to that knowledge. But hopefully we will have some original plots so that SG-1 experience wont be as needed as some fear.
Originally posted by ShadowMaat View PostYeah, but it still seems like a pretty ridiculous coincidence that in the dream Teyla was the one trying to save Heightmeyer and in reality Teyla was the one who was worried about her. Of ALL of the characters involved on the show, why did it have to be Teyla who expressed concern? Surely she's not the only one in Atlantis who worries about other people?
Originally posted by Vapor View PostI never said that it was going to change, or that it hasn't always been this way.
Whether it has or has not been this way was not my point.
And really, I take issue when people suggest that people are "watching the wrong show" when they discuss an aspect to said show that they don't care for.
I gave a number of specific reasons as to why the ep didn't work for me, and thoughts on how episodes of a similar nature (iow, standalones) actually DO work for me. I don't see how my comments even warranted a "you're watching the wrong show" response, especially if I hold plenty other "standalones" in high regard.
It's this one that I had a problem with. Not the whole franchise. -_-
Maybe it's me misunderstanding the way you phrased it but saying:
Originally posted by Vapor View PostSuch a concept just screams "pointless" to me. There's nothing wrong with standalone eps when they have some kind of extra-normal value to bring to the canvas of the show. The thing is, most of the time, when they happen on SG, I just don't respond to it. I honestly find myself just sitting and waiting for it to be over, so I can see whether or not the next episode's promo makes next week's look any better.
There's no sense of importance to the ep itself, because I just KNOW the dream-thing isn't going to affect the show in any real way. At least not until somebody pulls a "Hey, remember the events of 'Doppleganger'?" But that doesn't excuse that I just sat through an hour of stuff I wasn't really enthralled by in order to get to the "Hey, remember the events of SuchAndSuch?" episode, later in the season/series.
[snip]
This episode, which, on first glance at least, seemed to have so little value to the show's overall story.
It's like watching 24 and being disappointed that there aren't more stand alone episodes that aren't related to the main plot.sigpic
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Fantastic episode. Probably my favourite so far. Loved how all the nightmares played out. The bug bursting out of Teyla's stomach was gross... but very well done.
Loved all the team interaction and how close they are becoming. Great performances by everyone. Keller is growing on me and she seems to be fitting in quite well. Liked Sam here and how she could actually be helpful in finding a solution to their predicament... something Weir could never do.
The fight scene between good and evil Shep was awesome... and loved how Rodney went back in to try and save Shep.
All round good characterization, good action and I loved the entity storyline.sigpic
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Originally posted by AGateFan View PostSo Teyla has keys to Kate H. apartment, or is Atlantis uber communal? Seems like she would need security there to open the door.Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.
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Originally posted by Mitchell82 View PostAnd me because I also disagree.
One of the things I especially liked about this episode is the way Carter is fitting in. She seems like she will be a very strong leader. That showed in her speech. She let through a bit of emotion, but not too much. In times like that, a leader should not show emotion, or fear. The people of Atlantis' needed her to be strong, and she was. I thought that was nice.
And I thought Keller was great too. Her nightmare was definately the best. Seeing Teyla there all dead and stuff was really creepy IMO. I look forward to seeing alot more of her, especially in 'Missing'. I think she is going to be very different to Carson, which is a good thing. I want her to be her own character, not a female clone of him.
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Originally posted by AGateFan View PostSo Teyla has keys to Kate H. apartment, or is Atlantis uber communal? Seems like she would need security there to open the door.
Originally posted by Vapor View PostAnd really, I take issue when people suggest that people are "watching the wrong show" when they discuss an aspect to said show that they don't care for.
I gave a number of specific reasons as to why the ep didn't work for me, and thoughts on how episodes of a similar nature (iow, standalones) actually DO work for me. I don't see how my comments even warranted a "you're watching the wrong show" response, especially if I hold plenty other "standalones" in high regard.
It's this one that I had a problem with. Not the whole franchise. -_-
Originally posted by ShadowMaat View PostSays you.
Don't think the acting was that bad, really,but the actors had so little to work with that they looked a bit... thin in places. IMO.
Originally posted by Mitchell82 View PostI really don't understand why so many people say it is like Cold Lazarus. It isn't even close the only similarity is a crystal like entity that doesnt even come close to the one in Cold Lazarus. So I don't get your point about it feeling like a recycled ep because nothing in SG-1 even comes close. As to the first point there were only three or four and they made sense considering the situation.Last edited by prion; 22 October 2007, 08:36 AM.
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Originally posted by AGateFan View PostSo Teyla has keys to Kate H. apartment, or is Atlantis uber communal? Seems like she would need security there to open the door.
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Originally posted by Alipeeps View PostAs a few others have mentioned, the dream was from Kate's POV though it was filmed deliberately confusingly at the start to make us think it was another Teyla dream.. it was a storytelling conceit, just like having the viewer POV jump straight into John's dream after the whale swallowed the boat, so that we wouldn't be sure what was real or who was dreaming what.
It's been shown before that Teyla and Heightmeyer were friends.
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Originally posted by Pegasus_SGA View PostI bet you've just made FH's day with those thoughts.
*residing on cloud n°9*Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Hatusu wrote:
Nope. I was thinking exactly the same thing during the episode. The writers have to remember that most of Atlantis' viewers are educated in the sciences. I was waiting for the scene, or the dream scene in which the alien would reveal its motives. I thought it would be in Sheppards dream, but it never happened. The entity just turned into a mindless monster. Sheppard never even asked, "Why?".
Rose Hack wrote:
I struggled a bit with Keller in this episode, I didn't struggle with her in the previous episodes and I am not anti-Keller. To me she came off more as a scared little girl then an experienced doctor. I realize that they are trying to show her being insecure as she takes over the rein from Carson and I think she gets some stronger character growth in future episodes but it was almost too much for me in this episode.
I did love her scene with Ronon and the look on her face when he told her that he didn't think Sheppard was seeing anyone
ShadowMatt wrote
Are we meant to believe that Heightmeyer dreamed she died and thus died for real? I found that whole thing very confusing because we got the scene from Teyla's perspective and Teyla was the one who was worried about the "real" Heightmeyer. If it was the doc's dream, though, what was the point of Teyla being in it? And why did Teyla wake up worried? Are they supposed to be friends or something? And again, if it was her dream, why see it from Teyla's POV? Dream logic can be a little screwy sometimes, but in all the other dreams the dreamer was at the center of whatever was happening.
Carter's speech was appallingly trite and the "bonding" moment she shared with Keller was so... cheesy that I couldn't believe it was all really happening.sigpic
Dare and Dream
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Originally posted by P-90_177 View Postthey haven't been shoving kellar down our throats. she's only been in it when needed. Beckett in season 2 and 3, now HE was shoved down our throats. making him a main character was a big mistake.
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Originally posted by BoyNamedSue View PostI completely disagree - Beckett was there from the beginning, he was a competent, confident doctor, he has an Ancient gene. Keller, on the other hand, tried to excuse herself out of the job as soon as she got it & withing 5 episodes, she's reassuring Carter and hanging out with Sheppard's team. That, in my book, is SHOVING.
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Originally posted by Über View PostWow you saw this as a filler episode? It was a stand-alone, surely. But filler? I disagree strongly.
We learned a great deal about the characters, their feelings, their fears and how they tackle them and we see Carter as the new boss. Keller, a virtual unknown before, now has more depth as a doctor scared to lose control of a situation as a doctor and lose a patient. Teyla, we learn, has some deep-seeded fears of what Sheppard became in Conversion as well as a personal embarrassment about Shep and whether or not Carter trusts her yet. We see Ronon is terrified of being buried alive. Evan has some fairly significant issues with human form replicators, McKay of whales and Sheppard of clowns. Okay, Shep of a lot more than clowns but that was a great call back.
Actually Shep's was I think the most significant because I think his fear is of letting people down across the board...of failing his team and his friends and losing someone because of it. And it's happened to both Ford and Weir already...so the fear is a real one.
We also learned that he looks great when being whumped or when wet. Oh wait...we knew that already.
But even more than all of the above character tidbits...saw how they are learning to relate to each other and work together to solve problems as well as comfort each other in their mutual distresses.
And therein lies some of the jewels of this episode. The scene where Shep...while feeling guilty for his role in this...pulls up his bootstraps and faces Teyla to give her comfort over the loss of her friend. Yet another blow for this team who have lost so many in such a short period of time. The scene where Carter is put into the somewhat awkward and definitely unenviable position of announcing to everyone that someone they cared about has died and the beat afterwards when Keller gives her a word of encouragement. The softly uttered "thank you" from McKay to Sheppard before he goes into his mind and saves him from this threat.
And that very touching, yet subtle, scene at the end...where after a very rough time, they all find themselves gravitating toward the table together. Both veteran and new team members alike...all welcome and all starting to form a bond from this tragic chain of events.
So while I'll give you that this is a stand alone, I whole heartedly disagree that it was a filler ep. Filler eps...in my mind at least...do nothing to forward either plot arcs or character development whereas standalones forego the arcs only and focus in on character.
And I think Doppelganger did that quite nicely.
However, I have a major issue with two scenes involving Keller. One of them was the chitchat with Carter following the announcement of Heightmeyer's death. Keller - who couldn't talk herself out of the job fast enough 5 episodes ago - is now giving encouragment to a bloody SGC veteran?! A little presumptious, if not arrogant. The other moment was Keller (and Carter) joining Sheppard's team at the end of the episode. How did these two earn their friendship so quickly? While Zelenka - who's been there from the beginning, who's gone hunting (fine, bird watching) with Ronon, is Rodney's friend, and has been on a recent and vital mission with Sheppard - somehow doesn't belong there? Not attractive enough for that table, I guess.
That's why the episode should have ended with the pretty lights slowly blinking into being all over the forest.
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Originally posted by Ruffles View PostAnd I have to disagree with this. It may be 5 episodes, but it was established in First Strike that she had been there for some time. Weeks passed from the end of Lifeline to Reunion and an untold amount of time has passed from Reunion to Doppleganger. While it may not have played out on screen, she has had ample time to form friendships.
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