How is SG1 "taking over"? (spoilers)

[AGateFan]

I want to know where all the evidence of Caldwell’s experience is. As far as I know he only became part of Stargate Command a year or so ago...or was that two.

And Weir, where does her combat experience come in? Wasn’t she anti military? Yes she was supposed to be a great peace maker..... Good job with that. Now, of course, I blame the writers for that failure and will continue to assume the character is a great negotiator as she was presented. Just as I blame the writers for the useless co-leadership issue of S9 (supposedly due to Carter taking a command position at area 51) and assume Carter is the skilled professional soldier she had always been presented as before.

She led missions as early as season 2 and has lead scientist even longer. She has been integral in the war against the goa'uld and replicators for over 8 years and helped make SG-1 the flagship team that it was. Seems qualified to me.

Again I have no background on Caldwell, just that as far as I know he was not involved in any war until about 2 years ago. For all we know during the Afghan\Iraq wars he has been sitting in a training base learning to fly the Prometheus or flying F16s or sitting behind a desk trying to work his way into a position of importance (not like we haven’t seen him try to worm his way into such a position on the show) and its not like we even know how long he was a Col or that he ever had a command before prometheus.

Again... I am not pro carter being on SGA. I will give it a try just like I was willing to give Cam a try on SG-1. If they write it as badly I will be as anti this as anyone but it is somewhat within the realm of possibility that it will turn out OK. Yes I don’t believe I said that either, but there it is.

[Cautious Explorer]

As I recall, and I'm probably totally off base here, a President in the US must have some military experience, and is the Commander-In-Chief of the US military. That doesn't sound very civillian-y to me.

Yes, you are way off base here. This is a common argument most often brought out when a woman is running for office, as in "She can't make military decisions because she's never seen combat". It was also brought up to highlight how ill-equipped Clinton was to lead, while Bush's experience in the national guard somehow imbued him with great military wisdom.

[mcbarr]

I know because of what I just typed, right there...even though there was a typo, oops. Anyway, I know she will be allowing because I've watched SG1 enough to know that. How much SG1 have you watched?

Everything. That's why I don't want to watch recycled characters and plotlines anymore.

Sam has never been to one to be arrogant enough to want to "outshine" anyone; she's just the kind of women who wants to prove herself (which she did a long time ago), and to get things done based on her skills and her knowledge. If something doesn't seem right to her, she'll say it not because she wants to seem "smarter", she does it because it's necessary to get the job done in her mind.

I was referring to how Stargate writers inevitably write Carter as better than everyone else, not the character per se, who is incredibly sweet.

Don't forget what Sam said in Pegasus Project; she admitted that McKay is indeed right about them nukes.

I thought McKay and Sheppard were portrayed badly in that ep.

Good to see that you didn't touch upon my point AT ALL.

That explains a few things.

Well, I agreed with what you said there. Carter should go back to R&D, which has always been her field, including prior to SG-1.

Looks to me we had an error in communication. By "old girl", I meant Stargate Atlantis.

OK.

Ask TPTB. We know that had nothing to do with Carter coming over, anyway, unless you can provide some solid evidence (and not "they wanted Carter over for years!") that state otherwise.

LOL! As if what's going on is not evidence enough.

As I recall, and I'm probably totally off base here, a President in the US must have some military experience, and is the Commander-In-Chief of the US military. That doesn't sound very civillian-y to me.

Sounds like a joke, but I won't say anything cause I might offend other posters. Anyway, after leading the Atlantis expedition for three years, Dr. Weir has military background too, and is way more familiar with PG affairs (Wraith etc.) than Carter.

Still, the point is, if there is an actual war coming, it's better to have someone who at least have some military experience (but who can also work well with scientists, since there are many of those in Atlantis) at the helm than a diplomat, as the enemy seems determined to not go down the diplomacy route.

But Dr. Weir does now, and that's why Sheppard and McKay are there, to advise her. If the leader doesn't need advisors, they're expendable.

But why do they need that high a rank for Atlantis? As it stands, she will be the most senior officer on Atlantis, which is a city that is mostly made up for civillians anyway. This is not a military installation for the most part (except in name, perhaps).

Because that's life. Take Iraq as an example. General this, General that...

I don't even know where this line of thinking came from. Who said anything about the war being the cause for Carter being brought over?

I wasn't talking to you specifically. This stuff has been suggested before. That's why I mentioned it.

Can we just drop this "war-time" stuff until that plot point actually premiers, or gets elaborated upon? I really hate discussing stuff with very sparce spoilers as evidence.

Then what are you doing on GW?

[PG15]

Yes, you are way off base here. This is a common argument most often brought out when a woman is running for office, as in "She can't make military decisions because she's never seen combat". It was also brought up to highlight how ill-equipped Clinton was to lead, while Bush's experience in the national guard somehow imbued him with great military wisdom.

Ah well, there you go. I stand corrected.

Thanks.

Everything. That's why I don't want to watch recycled characters and plotlines anymore.

I'm sorry, but that's what Seasons 2 and 3 have been for me, pretty much. I'm not saying I didn't like it, but I'll be welcoming any change at this point. So, Season 4, with it's big changes both in front of and behind the camera is going to be something to look foward to for me.

I was referring to how Stargate writers inevitably write Carter as better than everyone else, not the character per se, who is incredibly sweet.

Well, in SG1, she was better than pretty much everyone else. However, as again shown in Pegasus Project, McKay does have something on her, so we'll see how that goes.

Well, I agreed with what you said there. Carter should go back to R&D, which has always been her field, including prior to SG-1.

Well, the fact remains; Atlantis needs a leader who is both skilled at military stuff AND who can work well scientists. There's no one better at fitting into both of those catagories than Carter.

LOL! As if what's going on is not evidence enough.

No, it's not. That's the problem. You seem to let your hatred for the whole decision cloud your judgement, as you have yet to provide ANY evidence to support your claims. Just "LOL! Look at it yourself!" or "It's as plain as day!" or something similar.

Give me your evidence, or shut up about it.

Sounds like a joke, but I won't say anything cause I might offend other posters.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but yes, I was wrong. Sorry about that.

Anyway, after leading the Atlantis expedition for three years, Dr. Weir has military background too, and is way more familiar with PG affairs (Wraith etc.) than Carter.

But Dr. Weir does now, and that's why Sheppard and McKay are there, to advise her. If the leader doesn't need advisors, they're expendable.

Weir ain't in any shape to command at the moment.

No offense, but you can't seem to grasp the fact that Weir is out, one way or another.

Because that's life. Take Iraq as an example. General this, General that...

I don't see how a complete warzone can be compared to an alien city filled with military AND scientists, and who aren't really even fighting unless they leave it.

I wasn't talking to you specifically. This stuff has been suggested before. That's why I mentioned it.

I see. Well, whoever said it, it sounds like crap to me.

Then what are you doing on GW?

Alright, I'll admit.

I'm here for the lolz.

[prion]

I want to know where all the evidence of Caldwell’s experience is. As far as I know he only became part of Stargate Command a year or so ago...or was that two.

Again I have no background on Caldwell, just that as far as I know he was not involved in any war until about 2 years ago. For all we know during the Afghan\Iraq wars he has been sitting in a training base learning to fly the Prometheus or flying F16s or sitting behind a desk trying to work his way into a position of importance (not like we haven’t seen him try to worm his way into such a position on the show) and its not like we even know how long he was a Col or that he ever had a command before prometheus.

Caldwell is like many other characters on the gates - you know pretty much zip. For all we know, he's been with the program for a decade but becuase the shows concentrate on SG1 and the SGA team, we pretty much don't see another team unless they run into some kind of unfortunate problem (like being sucked into a black hole).

[SG13-NightOps]

EDIT: And yes, thank you, I realize that it's only my opinion that Atlantis is recycling SG-1 plots and whatnot.

Actually, I agree with you. They are recycled SG1 plots - which actually tickles me when you get the "SG1 Bad, SGA Good" on here. What SGA is - is a rewrite of SG1. Its so easy to point at an epi of SGa and then its 'sister' SG1 ep. Grace Under Pressure doesnt even try and hide the fact that its a rehash.

So yeah... its just amusing. Take said plot point, make new episode.
Singularity -> Sunday
Cor ai -> Sateda
Grace -> Grace Under Pressure
The Fifth Race -> Tao of Rodney
And lets not forget the blindingly obvious one
Hathor -> Irresistable.

Those are just ones off the top of my head. I am sure if I thought about it more I could pick more.

Another reason this thread is just kind of funny.

----------------------

Sorry about the huge discussion about "qualification of Carter".

I still believe that if 10 years on the field with the SGC doing research, strategic operations, negotiating, saving the world... is less qualified than 1 year in the antarctic doing research and one Failed negotiation with the Goa'uld - then those claiming Carter is not qualified but Weir is really need to look at what is driving their opinion. Neither Carter nor Weir are my favourite characters - but its not exactly hard to see the glaring differences in their resume's. (Note - this is how their resume stands PRIOR to taking command of Atlantis Base).

They sent Weir because they hoped to find Ancients that she could negotiate with.

[Agent_Dark]

Either way, Carter still shouldn't get command of atlantis based on the mere fact that she's just been promoted to a Colonel and therefore has not had the type of command experience that an experienced, longtime colonel would have had. Carter being leader is not going to "militarize" the base. IT will be the same just more SG-1 baggage. And Carter has had no war experience. You can't consider conflict with the Goauld and the Ori "war." Maybe an undeclared war but definitely not full-out war. Col. Everett seemed like the most able to lead a base during wartime based on the Seige pt 3 alone. The problem is, TPTB don't know how to incorporate real war into a continual series.

:|

Military people need 'war experience' to be suitable for command. DoubleU, Tee, Eff. What the hell makes you think Weir is suitable to command then? She's not even in the military! Pretty much every senior officer in WW2 had only prior 'war experience' as junior officers in WW1 if any 'war experience' at all, yet many of them excelled. Omar Bradley for example, hadn't seen any action at all until he was commanding a Corps in the North African theatre in WW2. Very successful General, he's even got a Infantry Fighting Vehicle named after him - the M2 Bradley.
Also, officers get promoted to fill command positions. They don't get promoted unless they've been deemed suitable by the military. A long time Colonel is more likely to either to get promoted, or retire. Up or Out is what they call the system.

[Mitchell82]

That was nothing. She was barely leading. There wasn't any team dynamic either. Season 8 developed her for nothing.

Sorry I disagree. It took a few eps to for her to feel comfortable but she was a fairly strong leader and there was a great team dynamic IMO. Season 8 really helped flush out her character.

[Mitchell82]

:|

Military people need 'war experience' to be suitable for command. DoubleU, Tee, Eff. What the hell makes you think Weir is suitable to command then? She's not even in the military! Pretty much every senior officer in WW2 had only prior 'war experience' as junior officers in WW1 if any 'war experience' at all, yet many of them excelled. Omar Bradley for example, hadn't seen any action at all until he was commanding a Corps in the North African theatre in WW2. Very successful General, he's even got a Infantry Fighting Vehicle named after him - the M2 Bradley.
Also, officers get promoted to fill command positions. They don't get promoted unless they've been deemed suitable by the military. A long time Colonel is more likely to either to get promoted, or retire. Up or Out is what they call the system.

Exactly. Weir was an ok leader but not what she should have been. As I previoulsy have posted she had no combat training or experience and also has no scientific knowledge. Carter has all of that and is a much better canidate for the position and IMO can do a hell of a better job.

[Atlantis1]

Actually, I agree with you. They are recycled SG1 plots - which actually tickles me when you get the "SG1 Bad, SGA Good" on here. What SGA is - is a rewrite of SG1. Its so easy to point at an epi of SGa and then its 'sister' SG1 ep. Grace Under Pressure doesnt even try and hide the fact that its a rehash.

So yeah... its just amusing. Take said plot point, make new episode.
Singularity -> Sunday
Cor ai -> Sateda
Grace -> Grace Under Pressure
The Fifth Race -> Tao of Rodney
And lets not forget the blindingly obvious one
Hathor -> Irresistable.

Those are just ones off the top of my head. I am sure if I thought about it more I could pick more.

Hathor and Irresistable are a big stretch. Hathor was after followers who would help her control the SGC. The gou'ald don't do friendship. She was creating her own Jaffa.

Spoiler:

Lucius just wanted to be loved. While they thought of him as a god, he didn't harm any of them.

My opinion on this is that if you are looking for similarities you are going to find something but if you just sit back and watch SGA with its characters and situations then you can see them in a different way. I never thought of Hathor when I was watching Irresistable. I know alot of people compare shows. The friend I watch the show with compares things but she respects my way of letting the show be its own entity. I find I enjoy ant show I watch when I don't compare them to other shows.

[PG15]

So yeah... its just amusing. Take said plot point, make new episode.
Singularity -> Sunday
Cor ai -> Sateda
Grace -> Grace Under Pressure
The Fifth Race -> Tao of Rodney
And lets not forget the blindingly obvious one
Hathor -> Irresistable.

Those are just ones off the top of my head. I am sure if I thought about it more I could pick more.

Heck, "Rising" was pretty much just "Children of the Gods" redressed.

Athos = Abydos (this one is hauntingly similar)
Wraith attack village = Jaffa attack in the pyramid
Some of the Abydonians are taken = Some of our men are taken
Go to new world to rescue people (Chulak) = Go to new world to rescue people (Wraith Hive landing planet)
Big battle at the end (on Chulak) = big battle at the end (in space)

Also:

Hide and Seek = Lockdown
The Intruder = Entity
Hot Zone = every other "disease plagues base" episode
The Siege = Within the Serpent's Grasp/The Serpent's Lair
Duet = Holiday
Condemned = every other "our people gets captured" episode
Conversion = Bane
Epiphany = A Hundred Days
Progeny = Unnatural Selection
The Real World = The Changeling
Phantoms = every other "our people gets hallucinations" episode
Irresponsible = It's Good to be King



But you know what? This doesn't bother me at all. Atlantis is a new setting, and overall the stories are treated differently by the different characters. Yes, I'm pretty much arguing AGAINST the decision to bring in Carter in now, but really, 1 character change doesn't make much of a difference for me.

[Skydiver]

ok people. to your corners.

a) What does Weir vs Carter have to do with SG1 taking over??? Sam is not sg1, in fact, to a good chunk of the fandom, the 'best' sg1 didn't even have her on it.

If the topic is the TEAM of sg1 taking over the show, it's not a valid arguement since one person does not a team make. If it's the show taking over...then it's also a moot point cause one character does not make a show.

I'm starting to think that this thread is nothing more than a slanging match between fans.

Let's take a break from this topic and see if folks can find something else to discuss beyond 'this character sucks and this one doesn't'