How is SG1 "taking over"? (spoilers)

[Uber]

Eh, except she's not exactly suited for that role. She's never been developed for a position in this role, so, no, she can't possibly be suited for this role. She's jumping from 2IC to base leader. That doesn't do. They should have started back in Season 8 or Season 9 developing her into a base command leader. But, they didn't. They didn't develop O'neill into it either, I admit, but again he was writing some of his own character (before Gekko and he left the show). It isn't a suitable role for her because of lack of development in leadership positions. She's been a 2IC for all of SG-1, except for Season 8, which gave her little to no command development. She has not been developed as at least a CO (which is also why there was practically no CO in Seasons 9 and 10). I believe if TPTB hadn't wounded Everett, then he would be a good choice. He finally got on good ground with the SGA expedition, and particularly the most influential of them (the regular and recurring casts). He is already a Colonel, therefore no need for a promotion to make it seem right to be in this position. Carter just isn't developed for this kind of position. It's proven throughout SG-1. She just isn't there yet.

Well see...I disagree with your opinion.

I think she is suited for it. I think her time on SG-1 and her experience both as an officer and a scientist and the teams she's led and directed over the years helped hone her ability to manage both civilian and military assets.

Atlantis is just a bigger scale of what she's been doing off and on for years.

And for the record, Weir's background as a diplomat was enough to qualify her to be in charge of the SGC and ultimately Atlantis even though she's never been in charge of a community like that. Why? Because the raw materials were in place for her to be a politically viable steady hand at leading so she was able to make the adjustments in her new role.

I believe the same to be true of Carter but more so.

[SG13-NightOps]

And if Atlantis is truly unique and individual from SG-1, why do they keep needing to bring in stuff from SG-1 to get through a season?

I think herein lies the problem. In the past 3 years of Atlantis, where have the writers once given anyone the impression through the series that it is "stand alone from SG1".

The Dial ins to earth, the IOC, the SGC popping up. Never once had I been given the impression that this show is completely disconnected from the Stargate franchise (and SGC) as a whole - except possibly for the lack of Zat's. Mobius in SG1 had the direct purpose of giving them another ZPM allowing contact with Atlantis base - because all that cool Ancient technology that they all went to PG to get in the first place.

Watching both as many of us do, we were able to see the direct connection between the two, and how - despite having their own adventures - their paths do and are meant to cross.

They were cut off from earth for the first year on the base - something that was mentioned on both shows for that first season.

Acceptance that they do and will co-exist - despite any fan protests - will be helpful for the protesters. Its all well and good to complain on here and blame "Sg1 Fans" - but hey, we arent writing it. Even those SG fans who dont want SG1 crossing over have no say in it and are just as disappointed.

Point is, I was never under the impression that Atlantis was meant to be cut off from Sg1 for the rest of its natural life. In fact, I expected less interaction between Buffy and Angel than we did eventually get - but at least Stargate never left me with the impression that it would be a universal constant.

(Disclaimer - this post is not specifically directed at ShadowMaat - simply that one comment inspired this personal insight)

[ShadowMaat]

Just because they exist in the same universe doesn't mean they HAVE to have so many crossovers. There's a difference- or there should be- between knowing/acknowledging that they co-exist and having a 76 trombone marching band announcing the connection at every opportunity complete with fireworks and a choir.

It's all a matter of degree. I find the angle too extreme while others quite obviously don't. *shrug*

[Mitchell82]

Actually Sky this is where not understanding the military comes in. All officers are trained to lead and in whatever circumstances they find themselves. There's a reason all AF officers are highly educated these days because they want people who can think and adapt, take their training and apply it effectively in whatever situation they find themselves in.

Well I'm in the military and I can tell you no matter how well trained an officer is no one can accuratly say if you are prepared to handle a command in another galaxy.

In the case of what training could someone have to lead the Atlantis Expedition? How about 10 years on the frontline at the SGC where you are recognised as an extremely effective officer who gets the job done whatever is thrown at you. How about being the officer that is given whatever resources (including personnel) needed to get that job done. They have always shown Carter as an effective and trusted officer and from even as far back as Season 1 have had her leading other people even though some biased people want to ignore stuff like that.

That I agree with. Carter has the experience to handle that situation.

My preference for Atlantis is to have the cast remain the same and the writers pick up the ball they dropped with the series, (been there done that - contributed to all the Save [fill in blank] campaigns). However that doesn't mean I can't see that Carter as presented in the series has the knowledge and experience to be a prime candidate for the job of leading the Atlantis Expedition.

I understand your point but don't agree. They havent dropped the ball IMO. I wasnt happy with the removal of Carson but was pleased in how it was handled. Carter may not know exactly how to command Atlantis but she has enough experience to be a successfull commander.

I still don't see how having one character come over from another series (and all the attendant arguments about being qualified to do so) in the same universe constitutes SG-1 is taking over. I think there is more danger of the "network formulas" taking over, the use of the 3 B's to try and pick up ratings until they can get the franchise in a better position to continue.

I understand your fear but I don't see that happening.

[SG13-NightOps]

However that doesn't mean I can't see that Carter as presented in the series has the knowledge and experience to be a prime candidate for the job of leading the Atlantis Expedition.

That would make "2 Episode Negotiator" Weir far far less qualified, no?
I mean if a 10 year veteran of intergalactic proportions does not have the Knowledge and experience, then the 2 week wonder of the Antarctic would have even less.

Perhaps if RDA was willing, General Jack O'Neill would have been a better choice - or Teal'c - even at a stretch, Daniel. But in all things intergalactic, there are no other people on earth more qualified than SG1 (Original) and Hammond.

I think the "Qualification" argument is utterly pointless because of this simple fact. No one else has done more offworld exploration, investigation and negotiation than SG1. Thats not just because the series revolved around them, its canon.

ShadowMaat

It's all a matter of degree. I find the angle too extreme while others quite obviously don't. *shrug*

David Hewlett
"Although what became apparent very quickly was that our show wasn't just a sequel, we were a compliment to their show"

As I said - its the misconception that it is supposed to be "stand alone". I have never felt that it was.

[Uber]

Just because they exist in the same universe doesn't mean they HAVE to have so many crossovers. There's a difference- or there should be- between knowing/acknowledging that they co-exist and having a 76 trombone marching band announcing the connection at every opportunity complete with fireworks and a choir.

It's all a matter of degree. I find the angle too extreme while others quite obviously don't. *shrug*

Okay. I guess the difference for me is perspective.

I don't see the scenario nearly as much about how many crossovers there are as much as seeing them make use of Stargate characters where they fit best. So while some might see Carter the interloper from SG-1 trampling in SGA's sandbox, I see a Stargate character being reassigned to the part of the operation where she's needed.

Atlantis is not as separate from the SGC and SG-1 as people seem to think. Both the SGC and the Atlantis expedition work under the umbrella of the IOA. Both have military and civilian components. Both are in existence to serve as both the front line of defense against attack as well as a platform for exploration and seeking out allies.

And while the mission to the Pegasus galaxy started off with more of a civilian/exploratory bent with the military along for backup and support and stayed civilian longer than it should have because the IOA wanted to maintain a stronger hold on the mission. For the last year or so, it's been incredibly self-indulgent and irresponsible for the IOA to not have the military in command of the facility IMHO. Things have changed dramatically in the few years they've been in operation and they've accrued a fairly substantial list of enemies who would do them harm.

I think Carter is the compromise. She brings the weight of the military, her strategic insights and background from serving on SG-1 as well as a solid background in the sciences and the ability to manage both the military and civilian assets with balance and respect for all parties involved. And as equally important, she isn't fazed or intimidated by those in political power.

[Agent_Dark]

Well I'm in the military and I can tell you no matter how well trained an officer is no one can accuratly say if you are prepared to handle a command in another galaxy.

It's not about being in another galaxy - that point is irrelevant. The point is that training is something that prepares you for any situation relating to that training. You may not have experience specific to the situation, but the training is what lets you deal with and learn the specifics of that situation. No-one's prepared for command in another galaxy, unless they've done it before. No-one's prepared for insurgent warfare in a middle-eastern city, unless they've done it before. No-one's prepared for the role of CEO in a major international bank, unless they've done it before. In all those cases it's a combination of training and any experience in similiar situations/environments.

Actually I would think Carter, along with any other senior long serving military officers in the SGC, would be uniquely suited to that role given their prior exposure and experience in "Aliens and Laser Guns and Spaceships"

[AGateFan]

For me it's simply a case that I had stopped watching SG1 - and I was happy with how SGA was progressing and how the characters were gelling (I thought that was particularly apparent in The Return part I). I'm disappointed that the showrunners felt they needed to change the line-up, particularly by bringing over an incredibly established character from SG1.

So whilst I don't think SG1 is taking over per se, I have this impending feeling of doom that it may morph ever further into the feel of SG1 seasons 9/10 - which I really wasn't keen on (no offence intended S9/10 fans!). Perhaps that is because of the number of character changes, I dunno. It remains to be seen I suppose. Or not, depending on whether you want to see season 4 anyway.

I have to say the Replicators get a huge, giant, cavernous yaaawn from me.

This is exactly how I feel.
Although I like the Carter character I am not sure I really want her on SGA for several reasons. One is that I was actually like-ing all the non luscious episodes this year and have generally enjoyed the show since its inception. I wasn’t happy that they killed Weirs 2ic in the first season. Then they took out Ford in the second season. Now in the third season not only one great character gets the axe but another growing character is given the boot. I really like the cast but they keep changing it which makes it hard to get attached.

Now they will bring a character I already like over and I can have no trust that they will treat the character with respect (or even keep her in character) and god knows if they just wont kill her off at the end of the S4 (since someone will have to go apparently judging from the trend).

So I like the show, the show is hitting its stride after making changes and now they are making MORE changes. I don’t see these as particularly beneficial. They may not hurt the show in the long run but I really have no faith in the TPTB anymore. I am ok with some of their writing but I think the show direction needs to be set by someone else. If the new show runner thinks Luscious (and S9-10 of SG-1) is as good as it gets then I have great fear for the Stargate Atlantis and all of its characters.

Also, more replicators....really? I am so over replicators, they were part of an asgard plot and they were dealt with properly at the end of S8. Why must we revisit this, especially the boring-azz cyclon version? At least the bug form replicators were interesting now its just scifi cliché. Also really disappointing considering how interesting the wraith queen was in submersion.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

This is exactly how I feel.
Although I like the Carter character I am not sure I really want her on SGA for several reasons. One is that I was actually like-ing all the non luscious episodes this year and have generally enjoyed the show since its inception. I wasn’t happy that they killed Weirs 2ic in the first season. Then they took out Ford in the second season. Now in the third season not only one great character gets the axe but another growing character is given the boot. I really like the cast but they keep changing it which makes it hard to get attached.

Now they will bring a character I already like over and I can have no trust that they will treat the character with respect (or even keep her in character) and god knows if they just wont kill her off at the end of the S4 (since someone will have to go apparently judging from the trend).

So I like the show, the show is hitting its stride after making changes and now they are making MORE changes. I don’t see these as particularly beneficial. They may not hurt the show in the long run but I really have no faith in the TPTB anymore. I am ok with some of their writing but I think the show direction needs to be set by someone else. If the new show runner thinks Luscious (and S9-10 of SG-1) is as good as it gets then I have great fear for the Stargate Atlantis and all of its characters.
.

Oh, you don't have to worry about carter. They'd NEVER kill her off. If anyone is going it will be Teyla, seeing how

Spoiler:

she takes a dark turn.

[ShadowMaat]

You know, it doesn't matter what justifications/reasons I give for feeling the way I do, none of it will ever be good enough or valid enough for those who see it differently. You'll always poke holes in everything I say, try to invalidate all my arguments, and generally imply that I'm wrong and blowing everything out of proportion.

Likewise nothing I say is going to convince you defenders that you're wrong. But frankly, that isn't supposed to be the point. I've had my say- again (and again and again and again, as some of you nastier types would sneeringly point out) but frankly even I get sick of talking about this crap when none of it matters. The show is what it is and nothing ANY of us say is going to change that.

I'm not happy with the direction the show is taking. I'd rather see something more like S1 where contact with Earth is limited and where the plots are mostly original instead of retreads of SG-1 eps. Other people, however, don't see it that way at all and think the show is fantastic as is. I'm happy for you. I'm glad you can accept the changes as "good" and that you believe it's acceptable for it to be nothing more than a complement to SG-1 instead of a show in its own right. More power to you. Me, I'll just crawl back into my cave and stop bothering all you nice people who so lovingly point out all the ways in which I'm wrong. It gets old, even for me. Especially for me.

Have fun. Enjoy the show.

EDIT: And yes, thank you, I realize that it's only my opinion that Atlantis is recycling SG-1 plots and whatnot.

[Skydiver]

that's one thing that folks need to realize.

I can be as pro or con about an issue as i want...but at the end of the day, my opinion isn't gonna change anyone else's. they will like or dislike what they want.

Anyone that believes that if they post long enough or often enough they'll 'convince others' is disillusioned. No one will 'convince' anyone of anything. People need to make thier own decisions and determinations.

[AGateFan]

That would make "2 Episode Negotiator" Weir far far less qualified, no?
I mean if a 10 year veteran of intergalactic proportions does not have the Knowledge and experience, then the 2 week wonder of the Antarctic would have even less.

Perhaps if RDA was willing, General Jack O'Neill would have been a better choice - or Teal'c - even at a stretch, Daniel. But in all things intergalactic, there are no other people on earth more qualified than SG1 (Original) and Hammond.

I think the "Qualification" argument is utterly pointless because of this simple fact. No one else has done more offworld exploration, investigation and negotiation than SG1. Thats not just because the series revolved around them, its canon. <snip>

Yes this is why I don’t understand the "qualification" angle either. As far as I am concerned ANY member of the original SG-1 is more qualified then anyone else to lead the Atlantis expedition (well Hammond would be qualified).

O'Neill being the most qualified. Daniel having the most offworld experience (of the humans) but lacking the military and diplomatic background (having been a bookworm for the majority of his life). Teal'c having the most experience of them all (but not being human). Carter having the least OFFWORLD experience on the SG-1 team (but having the military experience and probably some political crp too since she’s and officer and her Pop was a General). But even the least offworld experience on SG-1 is more experience then anyone else on earth.

So if you want a military leader who can understand and interact with civilian scientist who has at least a passing knowledge of the political games required for military officers and you want one with the most experience then Carter is a fit.

Weir had much MUCH more political experience then Carter and even though she lacked experience pretty much every place else this is why she was chosen. And had they actually had negotiations to do and such it would still be better to have her in charge. But if all they are going to do is start wars anyway then it’s not clear why you need a peacemaker as your leader. Of course I actually would have liked to see episodes where Weir was Weir and negotiating and making alliances...but clearly that’s not where TPTB want to take the show. They have never taken it that way. If you are going to have SGA scrw over allies and start wars with just about everyone they meet then you might as well have the military in charge instead of someone supposedly known to be anti-military and pro peace. IMHO ofcourse.

[Suzotchka]

That would make "2 Episode Negotiator" Weir far far less qualified, no?
I mean if a 10 year veteran of intergalactic proportions does not have the Knowledge and experience, then the 2 week wonder of the Antarctic would have even less.

I disagree. Weir negotiated treaties with the Goa'uld when she was in charge of the Stargate base. In her character bio, she's negotiated many treaties here on Earth.

If Weir wasn't qualified, she wouldn't have been put in charge of the base. And her experience from being in charge of the base (and negotiating treaties) led to her being in charge of the Atlantis Expedition. She had the support of the President and the IOA.

If Carter is qualified to run the entire Atlantis expdition, why wasn't she put in charge of running the Stargate base? Why haven't we seen her in command at all (barring her brief command of SG-1 in S8 and perhaps in R&D at Area 51)?

[prion]

Re: How is SG1 "taking over"? *spoilers*

Sorry you find being called uninformed is a slur but it is not. .

It’s the manner in which you said it.

In this case it is the truth and how do I know? I get my information from official military and trusted sources like the air force regs and my military family and friends, high ranking ones at that. I've already done my research.

If that’s the case, then to clarify everything, please post the details you’ve been given as thus far, it’s just “she’s more than qualified” is all you’ve said. Since you’ve done research, just post the regs, (URLs, etc.). so we can see what TPTB are using (besides the fact they wanted Carter over there) to put her in command in a realistic manner.

I still don't see how having one character come over from another series (and all the attendant arguments about being qualified to do so) in the same universe constitutes SG-1 is taking over. I think there is more danger of the "network formulas" taking over, the use of the 3 B's to try and pick up ratings until they can get the franchise in a better position to continue.

The crux of the problem is not so much Carter, but how TPTB use her. Yes, they are inserting an SG1 character into the show in part (verified) to bring SG1 fans over. If you go to any SG1 board, you will find posts from SG1 fans who say they never watched SGA but will now that Carter is on (or have watched for RDA, MS, etc. in guest shot roles). It’s marketing. If that marketing works, who’s to say another addition down the road won’t be done? TPTB/studios are making a franchise. If they have it their way, it will go on forever, and they will recast and change things in order to money. In the end, loyalty to a character is tossed out a window if they think can make more money with a new or transplanted character.

You seem to have strange notions of what constitutes a command in the military.

No, I have questions in what they have Carter doing. You’re assuming she’s done certain things which I have not assumed. Being on the Prometheus doesn’t give her, unless they show it on the screen, command training. Her key background is science, although I do recall that in the pilot for SG1 she was a pilot, scientist, etc., etc. etc. but then the writers are keen on overdoing it, as they gave Sheppard piloting skills on various aircraft that were used not only in the Air Force, but Navy, Army, etc. The writers tend to pick what they think is ‘cool’ and run with it. It’s like CSI. They can do everything…

What concerns many SGA fans who have watched it from the beginning is that the show will be altered from what we’ve come to enjoy, and with Weir being removed, and Carter being slotted in, the concerns are justified.

[prion]

I disagree. Weir negotiated treaties with the Goa'uld when she was in charge of the Stargate base. In her character bio, she's negotiated many treaties here on Earth.

If Weir wasn't qualified, she wouldn't have been put in charge of the base. And her experience from being in charge of the base (and negotiating treaties) led to her being in charge of the Atlantis Expedition. She had the support of the President and the IOA.

If Carter is qualified to run the entire Atlantis expdition, why wasn't she put in charge of running the Stargate base? Why haven't we seen her in command at all (barring her brief command of SG-1 in S8 and perhaps in R&D at Area 51)?

Probably because skiffy/MGM/whoever wanted an SG1 presence on the show now that SG1 the series is dead. They don't want to pay for antoher season, but they also don't want to lose those viewers.

Of course, maybe carter doesn't want a command job that would pull her away from science, which is what this job should do - stick her in an administrative capacity with no real time to play around with scientific stuff