Discussing the upcoming changes (S3 and S4 Spoilers)

[kris]

Main characters aren't disposable, and it's really a detriment to the show when the writers make them disposable.

So right. What is it they keep telling me in writing groups over the years?: It's the characters that people connect with and want to see, the people. Same with TV. I suppose some of us (depending on our personalities and age and other factors) are more flexible and will tune in to be dazzled with the special effects and action but I personally think it's too soon to be killing off regular characters I've grown fond of and have been fond of from the beginning. And it's all so mysterious as to why at this point.

I'm not freaked out, just annoyed. People generally say "follow the money" for an explanation so I'll tentatively go along with that reason for the unwise cast changes. Unwise towards loyal fans.

By the way, Daniel Jackson: I like your mitigations; they are reasonable possibilities.

[DeltaEagle]

IMO, it really doesn't take much (for the writers/producers/TPTB) to kill a show even when they're NOT ill-intended. Now we see 'Save SGA' sorts of threads in this forum, and I think that's quite enough to be a warning signal.

I cannot but think of Star Trek:Enterprise, which could not avoid its demise when its producers were, faced with the inevitable, somewhat desperate to keep the show alive and milk some more out of the 30-yr-old cash cow. (they did try to bring it around by adding new writers and storylines in its last season only to fail miserably) 'Sabotage' was not the case, but 'idiotic decision-making' was.

I admit, there is no point comparing ST:ENT and SGA at their face value. Different people, different company, different power structure, different storyline, different history, different potential, different fan base, and so on.

Nevertheless, it didn't take much to kill ST:ENT. Just a few irrecoverable (bad) decisions here and there finally set its fate. Now I'm getting worried that SGA might follow similar precedents.

[The Signal]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cooper is Braga and will be the one to bring the franchise crashing down. At least he's not showrunner next season, though M&M may not be the best people either IMO, time will tell

[Pitry]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cooper is Braga and will be the one to bring the franchise crashing down. At least he's not showrunner next season, though M&M may not be the best people either IMO, time will tell

Erm, this is SGA forum, not SG1.
Cooper wasn't show running SGA this year, either. Neither he was show runner for SGA in seasons 1-2, BW's been from the beginning.

[FallenAngelII]

Well, a long stretch would be that Carson's body was just there because he took longer-than-usual to make his decision to ascend.

Daniel's body didn't automatically energize when Repli-carter killed him. In fact, the ship was even destroyed with his body still there.

If they wanted to lame out Carson's death, Carson could be in a 60's diner, having lunch with Pegasus's Oma equivalent.

Corellary: He did do a good deed righe before he died. So that might inspire others to help him ascend?

We didn't see his body blown into smithereens in "Reckoning". All we saw was him right when the ship blew up. Going all squiddly takes a split-second.

Besides, the 60's dinner (which was just a representation of one of Daniel's memories) was a 70's dinner (considering Daniel's age) and it was different from when Daniel first Ascended and had to make the choice, obviously because this was the second time and Oma wanted a much longer conversation with him and because his body was now effectively gone (the other choice was death, according to Oma).

So she created that place to have a nice long chat.

When your body gives up on you and you haven't made the choice and gone all squiddy, you die. That's where the facts lead.

[Daniel Jackson]

IMO, it really doesn't take much (for the writers/producers/TPTB) to kill a show even when they're NOT ill-intended. Now we see 'Save SGA' sorts of threads in this forum, and I think that's quite enough to be a warning signal.

I cannot but think of Star Trek:Enterprise, which could not avoid its demise when its producers were, faced with the inevitable, somewhat desperate to keep the show alive and milk some more out of the 30-yr-old cash cow. (they did try to bring it around by adding new writers and storylines in its last season only to fail miserably) 'Sabotage' was not the case, but 'idiotic decision-making' was.

I admit, there is no point comparing ST:ENT and SGA at their face value. Different people, different company, different power structure, different storyline, different history, different potential, different fan base, and so on.

Nevertheless, it didn't take much to kill ST:ENT. Just a few irrecoverable (bad) decisions here and there finally set its fate. Now I'm getting worried that SGA might follow similar precedents.

You can't compare ENT to SG:A. Why? SG:A is a popular show with an audience. They are retooling the show to keep it interesting. ENT was a show that just followed 14 years of non-stop Star Trek, 7 of which had two shows on at the same time. People had enough Star Trek, and then out came ENT. People just didn't care anymore. We had lazy producers who wrote way too many episodes, and a network who didn't care for the show after Season 1 (due to a new network president).

[daniel9]

i dont think anyone really cared for ent. and then them trying tomarket as the first enterprise was a bad move also. s ince everyone knows whatthe first enterprise is. the only thing that would probably bring down sga at least right now is what shows are around it. and from the looks of things they are putting ent there or dr who once sg1 is gone

[ussrelativity]

I enjoyed Enterprise when it was on, but I think that the franchise could have done better. I see Atlantis as being short-changed by SCIFI channel.

[Daniel Jackson]

I don't think Carson ascended. There is no evidence in any episode that Carson wanted to ascended and join the ascended beings. Infact, of all of the main characters from SG-1 and Atlantis combined, Daniel Jackson is the only one who wanted to. Now... they could always say that Carson was secretly studying on ascension and managed to ascend. I haven't seen the episode yet, but assuming we didn't see his body, the casket could have been purely decorative and symbolistic. Sometimes people burry an empty casket. Carson's ascension just feels... forced.

My understanding is that ascension must happen before the physical body expires entirely. Daniel was still alive when Replicarter's ship disintegrated, because a stab wound like that wouldn't necessarilly kill you that quickly. The man grunted in pain, slowly fell to the floor, then tried to stay awake, and eventually passed out. It'd take him a few minutes to bleed to death and for his brain to be deprived of oxygen for too long before he died. Notice how the room "glowed" as the ship fell apart? I took that to mean that Daniel had ascended just as the ship broke apart, otherwise the vacuum of space would have finished Daniel off in an instant.

Unfortunately, I do think that Carter is replacing Wier. Carter's in for most of the season, and Wier's now a recurring guest star. The bright side is, this may only last for a year. If the show returns for Season 5, Carter may leave and Wier could return full time. Let's be optimistic, folks!

[ussrelativity]

I'm not exactly freaking out, but I am dissapointed to see that the cast is being changed this much.

[FallenAngelII]

I don't think Carson ascended. There is no evidence in any episode that Carson wanted to ascended and join the ascended beings. Infact, of all of the main characters from SG-1 and Atlantis combined, Daniel Jackson is the only one who wanted to. Now... they could always say that Carson was secretly studying on ascension and managed to ascend. I haven't seen the episode yet, but assuming we didn't see his body, the casket could have been purely decorative and symbolistic. Sometimes people burry an empty casket. Carson's ascension just feels... forced.

My understanding is that ascension must happen before the physical body expires entirely. Daniel was still alive when Replicarter's ship disintegrated, because a stab wound like that wouldn't necessarilly kill you that quickly. The man grunted in pain, slowly fell to the floor, then tried to stay awake, and eventually passed out. It'd take him a few minutes to bleed to death and for his brain to be deprived of oxygen for too long before he died. Notice how the room "glowed" as the ship fell apart? I took that to mean that Daniel had ascended just as the ship broke apart, otherwise the vacuum of space would have finished Daniel off in an instant.

Unfortunately, I do think that Carter is replacing Wier. Carter's in for most of the season, and Wier's now a recurring guest star. The bright side is, this may only last for a year. If the show returns for Season 5, Carter may leave and Wier could return full time. Let's be optimistic, folks!

From the transcript:
"McKAY: Yeah. Well, I mean, we... we will... They don't know yet. We're going to send... the... body... back to Earth..."

Unless we're gonna retcon what they said and claim Rodney was obviously mispeaking, there was a body.

[Daniel Jackson]

i dont think anyone really cared for ent.

I did. The only episodes I disliked are...

2-05 "A Night in Sickbay"
2-06 "Marauders"
2-25 "Bounty"
3-19 "Damage"
4-14 "Affliction"
4-15 "Divergence"
4-16 "Bound"
4-17 "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part I"
4-19 "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
4-22 "These Are the Voyages..."

The three episodes were from Season 2 were lame. "Damage" was good, but the ethical part of the episode was hangled poorly. The Season 4 episodes I listed were told well (except for the finale), but they were a waste of time as they didn't add anything to the series.

...and then them trying tomarket as the first enterprise was a bad move also. s ince everyone knows whatthe first enterprise is.

I didn't see anything wrong with this, given it is a PREQUEL.

the only thing that would probably bring down sga at least right now is what shows are around it. and from the looks of things they are putting ent there or dr who once sg1 is gone

If SciFi is smart, they will regroup SciFi Friday so that SG:A is on at 8, Doctor Who at 9, and BSG at 10.

[ussrelativity]

I did. The only episodes I disliked are...

2-05 "A Night in Sickbay"
2-06 "Marauders"
2-25 "Bounty"
3-19 "Damage"
4-14 "Affliction"
4-15 "Divergence"
4-16 "Bound"
4-17 "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part I"
4-19 "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
4-22 "These Are the Voyages..."

The three episodes were from Season 2 were lame. "Damage" was good, but the ethical part of the episode was hangled poorly. The Season 4 episodes I listed were told well (except for the finale), but they were a waste of time as they didn't add anything to the series.


I didn't see anything wrong with this, given it is a PREQUEL.


If SciFi is smart, they will regroup SciFi Friday so that SG:A is on at 8, Doctor Who at 9, and BSG at 10.

Now that would be a smart move!

[Celcool]

Unfortunately, I do think that Carter is replacing Wier. Carter's in for most of the season, and Wier's now a recurring guest star. The bright side is, this may only last for a year. If the show returns for Season 5, Carter may leave and Wier could return full time. Let's be optimistic, folks!

That's exactly what's upsetting a lot of us here. I'm all for being optimistic, I want Torri full-time on SGA (God knows if this change is only temporary, until Tapping is around, I wouldn't bet on it) but I'm not sure the show will still be here for another season after all the major cast changes. It just won't feel like Stargate Atlantis anymore, not the one we fell in love with in the first place. People will think they're watching a different show!

[The Signal]

Erm, this is SGA forum, not SG1.
Cooper wasn't show running SGA this year, either. Neither he was show runner for SGA in seasons 1-2, BW's been from the beginning.

My apologies, I was under the impression that he and BW were co-exec producers, and therefore, joint showrunners....