Irresponsible (313)

[Atlanis]

that village was used in SG-1's season 7 epasoide :Revisions

[macktheknife]

that village was used in SG-1's season 7 epasoide :Revisions

and probably every episode involving the ori homeworld, and any episode that begins with teyla saying "Athosians have met the people and think they are good traders" or some such. I think off the top of my head, that episode with the young wraith, the tower, at least 4 (probably 6-8 on thinking about it) different episodes of the last 2 seasons (sword in the stone, sleepyhead etc etc) of SG1 and probably lent whored it out to battlestar galactica a few times.

[Atlanis]

and probably every episode involving the ori homeworld, and any episode that begins with teyla saying "Athosians have met the people and think they are good traders" or some such. I think off the top of my head, that episode with the young wraith, the tower, at least 4 (probably 6-8 on thinking about it) different episodes of the last 2 seasons (sword in the stone, sleepyhead etc etc) of SG1 and probably lent whored it out to battlestar galactica a few times.

No that wasn't the constucted set they built at the start of season 2 of atlantis and season 9 of sg1
That village is I belive on the Canidain/US border except for the minamul changes like the fountin in the town square it's identical

[IWKYZerocool]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aAnubiSs
Drugging women and having sex with them without consent isn't rape?

That's never happened in the show.


Uh, he had what, six wives? Of course he had sex with them, and if they were drugged into liking him, that's non-consexual. In a court of law, he'd be convicted of rape.

Thats true, and he did say in the epsiode that we 1st met him, he sometimes has them all at the same time.... what a player.

[silence]

Giving the writers their due (as Ken C explained). Shep playing the 'lonesome hero' of all the classic westerns would have been VERY interesting and cool! Unfortunately going with the idea in such a bizarre and crap setting just took ALL the appeal right out of it.

seems like m&m like these kind of costumes... The Tower comes to mind.
western themed ep would work much better - with couple of tweaks in script - Genii should have killed couple of those moronic villagers, that would :

a) make the threat more real
b) build some tension
c) make me REALLY happy (i know villagers did their job according to script, but that doesnt mean i could stand them.. seeing few shot would up my enjoyment at least 100%)
d) make villagers standing up to Genii more believeable

blah... yes, they should have explored dark side of Lucius and use proper setting.. then this s***hole might have been really good ep....

but noooooo.... let's put 2 arch-nemesis in fairyland village and god forbid anyone gets hurt but Kolya....

i blame this one on producers... they were given prolly pretty good script and they f***** up... made worst garbage in history of SGA....

[FoolishPleasure]

Kolya has always been a very interesting, dark, and creepy character, and his interaction with Sheppard has always been entertaining. As others have said, these two deserved their own dark "cat and mouse" episode to resolve their arc together. It could have been an incredible acting opportunity for Flanigan and Davi, and a ratings winner for the show. Instead, we get. . .this.

As for Lucius - "Irresistible" was simply a glorification of date rape drugs, and the master print should be burned, and this episode was just. . .irresponsible.

Now, for M & M. They gave us the wonderful "Window of Opportunity", which is my all-time favorite SG1 episode. It had lots of humor, but it also had heart, something these two seem to be lacking in their recent writings. IF they can go back to their glory days, there is hope for SGA. Otherwise, I won't bother watching this sort of nonsense.

I'm also wondering about Beckett - was it M & M's idea to dump him???? And what about Weir? They don't seem to have any idea what to do with her either (unlike the brilliant Carl Binder, who takes full advantage of Torri's acting skills). Just who IS responsible for all the cast changes on this show? I'm just curious - gotta toss these rotten tomatoes at someone.

[OneSarcasticChick]

Just adding my agreement (and/or 2 cents)...

This episode, while displaying a few comedic qualities, was a SG1 episode planted in the SGA world. And as the words imply, it didn't fit.

At all.

John's voice, his lines, just screamed 'Jack'. Now, I know the two characters' dialogue often sounds quite similar (and before people jump on me, I know they're not the same ). But typically the presentation is completely different. In this episode? Not so much. One word quips were John's speciality. As were snarky side drawls. I had such a hard time splitting the different as I watched the epi - John was John, not Jack - that I lost total focus.

Teyla - when did she turn into a snarky beeyotch? She's usually such a wise, eventempered individual who's hackles rise in connection to Wraith. Now, the lines she spoke to Lucius, to the members of the village, etc...what happened to the old meditating Teyla who thinks the energy being wants to leave? I understand she was angry w/ Lucius, but she's been angry before and I haven't thought "Oh, SNAP!" in connection with Teyla before.

Carson - while I love the 'new' Carson, some explanation please! Why is he going on missions? Why is he turning into Rambo? What happened to Hoffa!Carson? It's like Weir's attitude change on violence and weapons. I can understand it, but there's just this great void in story. And hey, if it's Ronon's teaching him how to defend himself, to stand up for himself, great! Tell us instead of just turning Carson into Arnold.

This episode, while I admittedly laughed in some places (usually in connection w/ Rodney or Ronon), left me extremely disappointed. SGA is not a comedy schtick-driven show. That's SG1, and that only really worked while RDA was on the show. Nevermind the plotholes w/ the personal shield, the overall cheesy colors, the comedy, the camp, the absolute waste of a powerful enemy and the return of a character who should have been left alone, the darker storylines and setting and characters were completely lost in this epi and that was what disappointed me. And it could have happened! Lucius, on the surface, is a funny happy-go-lucky character. Past that? He's a horrible dark, manipulative, self-centered, amoral and all around bad-guy character. Kolya - well, just refer to CG. Imagine this set in the CG world...now that would be an epi that gives me shivers.

I really hope Kolya is only mostly dead and Miracle Max lives somewhere in Pegasus. He deserves a death in which people actually react to his death. Poor guy. He just doesn't get any respect.

This really doesn't bode well for S4. The episodes I loved...it sounds like those writers aren't going to be as involved, which is akin to Jim Carrey taking over Keiffer Sutherland's role on 24. SGA is not SG1...how long is it going to take TPTB to figure that out?

- Jo

[ken_is_here]

I watched it. What to say?? After waisting a whole hour of my life with Irresponsible I was feeling very VERY bad. Actually my first feeling was that I want to go to the bathroom and vomit.

I wonder what M&M the autors of this "masterpiece" think the fans of SGA are?? Idiots? Weak-minded?
Lucius was EATING with activated shield device. And as I remebered in Hide and Seek McKay wasn't able even to touch the device or anyone to touch him.
The whole episode was full with HUGE plot holes. And the villiage - oh, God have someone ever seen someting more insipid??? Why don't they put the episode in Barby's house - that would be MUCH BETTER! I wondered in one moment what I am watching - SGA or some soup opera???

To see Lucius again...was devastating. I thought Irresistable was the worst episode I have ever seen but now I know that Irresponsible is MUCH WORSE. Total crap! Waste of company's money and TV and fan' time.
I read the explanation of Ken Cuperus - the amazingly good idea of M&M was lost somewhere between the script and the TV. Ooooo, please! We saw a total LIME. How is possible the other writers to succeed to express their ideas witout loosing the idea? The truth is M&M ARE NOT GOOD WRITERS! They don't have any new ideas, every of their episode is full with cliches, stupid jokes and unapproprate for SCi FI plots.

I also read that M&M will be the producers of Season 4. OMG!!!! Now I know what we have to expect. Season 4 will be dedicated to Lucius and his relatives, his children, stories how he was raping women, and etc. In short after I watched Irresponsible I now what is coming in the future of SGA - a chain of crap episodes and END of SGA.

I will not be here to watch it. I suppose only the most persistant and masohist fans will be able to see Season 4.

It wasn't an "explanation." It was just my opinion. We all have them. What I see as a great script, others might not.

As for the idea of rape...just to be clear (again, this is only how I see it...right or wrong) Lucious wasn't drugging these woman -- he was taking a phermone that made him come across as sexy. Are we doing any less when we slap on cologne for a night out (well...I don't wear cologne, but...) or put on make up (Don't do that either) to make ourselves as desirable as possible? Lucious found a way to kick it up to 11 -- and which one of you could say you wouldn't do the same thing if you had that ability. Giving someone else a drug is one thing -- but altering the way others see you is another.

(I'm not saying it is acceptable..I'm just saying this is his justification.)

The other thing here is that Lucious is not a good guy...he's essentially a villain. But our team has no jurisdiction to punish him. At the end of Irrisistable they turn him over to the mercy of his fellow villagers (who are no longer under the influence)...to be punished. He is then exiled as punishment. The idea here is to have a guy who comes across as likable and harmless -- but show that he has a dark side as well. If he doesn't get what he wants...he will take it. He is actually very smart and conniving. (He took time to read much of Atlantis' database - when he could have been partying it up)

Now he is trying to start over - But he is still Lucious so he can't do that without having something that makes him special. He can't function without being the centre of attention. So he finds a way to be a hero to his people. he was inspired by Sheppard to be a real hero -- but unlike Sheppard he doesn't know what it means to be a hero. Yes, he is cheating...because he's scared to death of being lost in the crowd. Does that make him unlikable? Sure...why not. He's doing more harm than good to his people... but he's not trying to hurt them (he really thinks he is their protector) he's just terrified of going back to being a normal shlub who had no friends.

Again...this is just how I see it.

Ken C

[Platschu]

I think it was an average episode, not the best, but not the worst as you said. There were good ideas (the scene with the barrel, the dinamite, the boring of the team). Maybe Kolya should have a better end, but the writers were brave and killed him with a quick move just as the writers make in BSG or in 24. He escaped too much as Apophis, so the whole Sheppard vs. Kolya storyline had to be ended.

[Arlessiar]

All those hot busty chicks wearing traditional German outfits.

The costumes didn't look exactly like a traditional German Dirndl, but the similarity was bad enough (yeah I'm German, but I'm not a fan of this traditional clothing thing. Luckily I don't live in Bavaria).

By the way, Ken said that this little village was supposed to look Dutch. Well, any Dutch people here who can say something about this?

Well, Lucius actually used one German word, which out htere in the Pegasus galaxy, made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

If I got this right it was "Schnitzel" (=pork cutlet). I watched this scene several times because I was asking myself if I really got that right, but I think I did. And I grinned a lot because of that word.

Yes, Bavarian bar maids.Were they having a sale? But at least this gives employment to actresses who aren't stick thin

Your meaning is...?

Bye, A.

[Alipeeps]

I really hope Kolya is only mostly dead and Miracle Max lives somewhere in Pegasus.

Sorry, just had to quote this cos it made me chuckle so much!

It wasn't an "explanation." It was just my opinion. We all have them. What I see as a great script, others might not.

As for the idea of rape...just to be clear (again, this is only how I see it...right or wrong) Lucious wasn't drugging these woman -- he was taking a phermone that made him come across as sexy. Are we doing any less when we slap on cologne for a night out (well...I don't wear cologne, but...) or put on make up (Don't do that either) to make ourselves as desirable as possible? Lucious found a way to kick it up to 11 -- and which one of you could say you wouldn't do the same thing if you had that ability. Giving someone else a drug is one thing -- but altering the way others see you is another.

(I'm not saying it is acceptable..I'm just saying this is his justification.)

The other thing here is that Lucious is not a good guy...he's essentially a villain. But our team has no jurisdiction to punish him. At the end of Irrisistable they turn him over to the mercy of his fellow villagers (who are no longer under the influence)...to be punished. He is then exiled as punishment. The idea here is to have a guy who comes across as likable and harmless -- but show that he has a dark side as well. If he doesn't get what he wants...he will take it. He is actually very smart and conniving. (He took time to read much of Atlantis' database - when he could have been partying it up)

Now he is trying to start over - But he is still Lucious so he can't do that without having something that makes him special. He can't function without being the centre of attention. So he finds a way to be a hero to his people. he was inspired by Sheppard to be a real hero -- but unlike Sheppard he doesn't know what it means to be a hero. Yes, he is cheating...because he's scared to death of being lost in the crowd. Does that make him unlikable? Sure...why not. He's doing more harm than good to his people... but he's not trying to hurt them (he really thinks he is their protector) he's just terrified of going back to being a normal shlub who had no friends.

Again...this is just how I see it.

Ken C

Hi Ken! *waves*

Nice to see you in here again and thanks for posting some interesting thoughts - I quite agree with your interpretation of Lucius; what interested me very much in Irresistible is that he started out seeming to be an annoyance, a rather silly, irritating character, but as the episode progressed we began to see how truly manipulative and insidious and amoral he is and the whole tone became a lot darker - I think in particular of the scene in the gateroom where Sheppard suddenly realises that he is the only one unaffected and that everyone is against him and he has to backtrack and apologise to get out of the situation and have time to regroup and decide what the heck to do - and also of the scene in the cell where Lucius shows his true colours.

I still think Irresponsible would perhaps have been a better episode if we had again seen more of that darker side to Lucius rather than just playing him for pure comedy - that would have tied in perhaps better with the darker elements to Kolya's character and history.

I also agree with you on the "great rape debate"; I can honestly say such an interpretation never even occured to me until I read the discussion on here! Yes, Lucius actions were utterly reprehensible.. and they were meant to be. We were supposed to realise that this is an amoral, cunning person; he is not supposed to be likeable. I was actually reminded of this recently when I saw an advert for Lynx body spray which showed a man standing on a beach spraying himself with the body spray and grinning lavisciously whilst hundreds of bikini-clad women ran hungrily towards him from every direction. How come no-one is complaining that that advert is condoning rape?

I like your interpretation on Lucius in this ep - it's an interesting way of looking at it. I admit I hadn't really considered that he really was trying to change and be a better man, that Sheppard had inspired him. I guess the portrayal of the darker side of his character in Irresistible made such an impression on me that I just assumed he was once again just out for what he could get.

All in all, I quite enjoyed the ep and there were lots of good moments in it - I certainly think it would have come acorss very differently and made a little more sense (especially at the end) if the planned western theme had been able to be carried through. I just still wish we could have had a lovely, angsty, Ken-penned ep dealing with Sheppard and Kolya... but then, I'm all about the angst!

[female Wraith]

It wasn't an "explanation." It was just my opinion. We all have them. What I see as a great script, others might not.

As for the idea of rape...just to be clear (again, this is only how I see it...right or wrong) Lucious wasn't drugging these woman -- he was taking a phermone that made him come across as sexy. Are we doing any less when we slap on cologne for a night out (well...I don't wear cologne, but...) or put on make up (Don't do that either) to make ourselves as desirable as possible? Lucious found a way to kick it up to 11 -- and which one of you could say you wouldn't do the same thing if you had that ability. Giving someone else a drug is one thing -- but altering the way others see you is another.

(I'm not saying it is acceptable..I'm just saying this is his justification.)

The other thing here is that Lucious is not a good guy...he's essentially a villain. But our team has no jurisdiction to punish him. At the end of Irrisistable they turn him over to the mercy of his fellow villagers (who are no longer under the influence)...to be punished. He is then exiled as punishment. The idea here is to have a guy who comes across as likable and harmless -- but show that he has a dark side as well. If he doesn't get what he wants...he will take it. He is actually very smart and conniving. (He took time to read much of Atlantis' database - when he could have been partying it up)

Now he is trying to start over - But he is still Lucious so he can't do that without having something that makes him special. He can't function without being the centre of attention. So he finds a way to be a hero to his people. he was inspired by Sheppard to be a real hero -- but unlike Sheppard he doesn't know what it means to be a hero. Yes, he is cheating...because he's scared to death of being lost in the crowd. Does that make him unlikable? Sure...why not. He's doing more harm than good to his people... but he's not trying to hurt them (he really thinks he is their protector) he's just terrified of going back to being a normal shlub who had no friends.

Again...this is just how I see it.

Ken C

So I have to correct myself. I didn't read your explanation I read your opinion.

As for Lucuis - if someone use make up or pefume he attracts the attention of a person with clear mind. The drug changes the minds of the people around without their agreement so it an act of violence.
I am sure that if the character of Lucuis was in another TV show he will be great but in SGA he looked ...I don't know how to explain it - out of place.
Thanks for posting here. I have to say I really sorry that you will not write a sequel to Common ground - my favourite Season 3' episode.

[silence]

Hi Ken,
thnx for another post.
I think most people here agree with what you are saying. Idea behind latest ep wasn't that bad at all. The problem is how it was done. And many of us are affriad this will continue in S4.

As i said, if this ep was done in different setting, with just few minor tweaks.. after all Kolya really has no problem with shooting people or hurting them in any possible way (he fed Shep to Wraith in CG).. why not shoot few villagers?
That would create tension, gave Kolya's death more meaning and ep would be turned 180 degrees in eyes of many fans.

Underlaying idea might be good, but execution was done totally wrong. That's our fear. Good scripts being turned into bad eps.

[Psyku]

i'm confused i actually like this episode, hehe aaah hmm kolya is shot i dont think he's death.

if he is then, the episode sucked guess carson has checked the dead body.

kind of hoping he fakes his own death do.

oooh well i'm not convinced yet.

my reason is seeing kolya looking kind of fat with that jacket. perhaps or atleast i hope something was hidden in there. that could catch bullits

[Linzi]

Quite simply the worst episode ever. And the insulting plot holes - hey even my old cat spotted them!

Agree with everything that has been said about Lucius and Kolya. Should have shot Lucius and kept Kolya for a fab farewell ep. It could have been a whole ep of him and Shep trying to kill each other - full of suspense and action.

I feel so cheated and I hated this ep.

Mx

Yes. You've hit the nail on the head. After the wonderful episode that was Common Ground, I feel so incredibly CHEATED!!!!!! Kolya's gone? In a cheesy Wild West shoot out? That's it? What an insult to Robert Davi.
Don't even get me started on the plot holes. The shield stuff? Hello? Hide and Seek? I think the writers seemed to be getting confused with a Goa'uld shield, not the Ancient one we saw in Hide and Seek. Rodney tried to drink coffee and couldn't make it penetrate the shield, and he didn't throw it at himself at high speed!This episode was a disgrace, and was an insult to fans who regularly enjoy the show. It may seem strange, but we do actually have brains in our heads!
I'm so disappointed. I just pray this was one of the two episodes of season three Joe told me he wasn't sure about at the London Expo! Because if there are worse than this, then I'm seriously depressed!!!!