Irresponsible (313)

[Suzotchka]

Yes. You've hit the nail on the head. After the wonderful episode that was Common Ground, I feel so incredibly CHEATED!!!!!! Kolya's gone? In a cheesy Wild West shoot out? That's it? What an insult to Robert Davi.
Don't even get me started on the plot holes. The shield stuff? Hello? Hide and Seek? I think the writers seemed to be getting confused with a Goa'uld shield, not the Ancient one we saw in Hide and Seek. Rodney tried to drink coffee and couldn't make it penetrate the shield, and he didn't throw it at himself at high speed!This episode was a disgrace, and was an insult to fans who regularly enjoy the show. It may seem strange, but we do actually have brains in our heads!
I'm so disappointed. I just pray this was one of the two episodes of season three Joe told me he wasn't sure about at the London Expo! Because if there are worse than this, then I'm seriously depressed!!!!

I absolutely agree with you!

With so many stories to tell and many characters to further develop, this is the episode they choose to film. What a waste of an episode and a waste of my time.

And I'd just like to add that Kolya deserved a better episode than this.

[silence]

Don't even get me started on the plot holes. The shield stuff? Hello? Hide and Seek? I think the writers seemed to be getting confused with a Goa'uld shield, not the Ancient one we saw in Hide and Seek. Rodney tried to drink coffee and couldn't make it penetrate the shield, and he didn't throw it at himself at high speed!This episode was a disgrace, and was an insult to fans who regularly enjoy the show. It may seem strange, but we do actually have brains in our heads!

I watched Hide And Seek just to make sure...

Not only he spilled coffee, but he couldn't even touch the device with his own hand. Shep couldn't touch him. No way he could get foot massage.

Also it is said that shield is imprinted on person who starts and it needs ATA gene.

Where and specially HOW did Lucius even find someone with ATA gene?
How could he use something that's imprinted to person who has ATA?

The more i read, the worse i feel. Why use shield at all... such lack of ideas, they could have used something like those arm-bands that Tok'Ra brought to SG-1 and there would be no plot hole... arggghhh......

Not to mention that experimental Ancient personal shields lay around the galaxy on every corner...

[obsessed1]

I absolutely agree with you!

With so many stories to tell and many characters to further develop, this is the episode they choose to film. What a waste of an episode and a waste of my time.

And I'd just like to add that Kolya deserved a better episode than this.

me too. I agree with what Linz said

[obsessed1]

I watched Hide And Seek just to make sure...

Not only he spilled coffee, but he couldn't even touch the device with his own hand. Shep couldn't touch him. No way he could get foot massage.

Also it is said that shield is imprinted on person who starts and it needs ATA gene.

Where and specially HOW did Lucius even find someone with ATA gene?
How could he use something that's imprinted to person who has ATA?

The more i read, the worse i feel. Why use shield at all... such lack of ideas, they could have used something like those arm-bands that Tok'Ra brought to SG-1 and there would be no plot hole... arggghhh......

Not to mention that experimental Ancient personal shields lay around the galaxy on every corner...

Absoloutely. As i mentioned before, it would have been more believable if Lucius had just invented a potion that made him invincible and he just had to drink it every three hours or so. Its insulting to think that the writers could think we would over look the sheild issue. We all have brains. We can all remember hide and seek and how the sheild works.

Forget everything else. The shield issue alone is enough to turn me off this ep.

[Wraith_Hunter]

I don't think the actual setting took that much of it away. Other than giving a more authentic western type feel to it, there is very little else it could have done that wasn't done in this ep.

The only thing that comes to mind would be a horses, saloon, then the batwing's that Shep, Kolya or Lucius would walk part & slowly walk through out onto the street etc. All the other events that transpired in the village would have still been the exact same in a western style set as well. So a simple setting change wouldn't have suddenly made the ep doubly as good than it ended up.

Plus it didn't help that it was already used in S7 of SG-1, with the shrinking dome plot.

Kolya (a little chubbier since the last time) was wasted in this ep. After CG, I expected to see fireworks the next time they went. Instead just like Orion earlier in the season, out with a whimper rather than a bang did he go.

However seeing how so many people didn't want him to die in this ep. I magically expect to see him revived at least once more in S4.

Hopefully, also when they read this thread. That Lucius is also brought back once more. That ep shows him being captured by the Wraith & his vast frame being drained for all it's worth. That single scene alone would get it a 10/10 from me!

In Atlantis as well as lots of SG-1 eps, far too many races we've seen are cast as the dumb inferior villagers that most don't even look to have invented electricity yet. I understand they are on a budget, but other shows can manage it. So if they really need to cut down to enable better sets etc, then start outsourcing the CGI where it can be done for around half the price.

What gets me is that not who even created the Lucius character & thought it would be a good addition, to not only 1 but 2 Atlantis episodes. Rather is the ones that have the main say that allowed them to do it...For me that's much more worrying instead!

It seems that there are too many yes men making these decisions on the show. The same thing happened to SG-1 & it's now beginning to happen to Atlantis as well. I'm not saying the writers aren't talented in what they do. I'm simply stating that they should have people at the top end who give the writers ideas for what they want to see happening in the eps (people who know what the fans want). Then take a look over them & make changes. Writers should stay writers, rather than writing the eps, directing, producing & being the ice-cream boy all at the very same time.

I've read twice in interviews that they don't make make the shows fore the fans but do stuff they want to see appear on screen. Hate to break it to you boys, but if they aren't what the fans want, then you won't be making anything very shortly as seen by SG-1's cancellation.

Since the 2nd half of S3 started airing in Canada there has been a plot hole in every single ep so far.

'The Return II': McKay says he won an acting award when he was younger, yet in 'The Eye' he said he couldn't act if his life depended on it.

'Echoes': McKay asks Shep why the Lanteans didn't think of doing it, he replied they probably couldn't spare the ships because they wre fighting the Wraith. This was despite the fact that they had already established the fact that the 'thing' happened a full 15,000 years ago. A whole 5000 years before they had even met the Wraith.

'Irresponsible': The whole shield thing didn't work for me. McKay wouldn't eat or drink anything at all. Yet Lucius was chomping down for all his worth. Then comes the biggest plot-hole. It's already been established that, in S1 fluids cannot penetrate the shield. As in S1 the drink runs down the shield. Yet in this ep it magically can. Also in this ep, we see Ronon cannot punch the wearer, just like Grodin in S1. So seeing how Lucius was wearing it at the time, how could the Genni rejects even move him to the water, never mind be able to dunk this sumo into it in the 1st place. Surely when they went to grab him, they'd get zapped by the shield the moment their fingers made contact with him, just like Ronon half an hour earlier on in the ep. Totally inconsistent.

I should also not that in S1's 'Suspicion', the teleplay also by Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie. McKay says to Zelenka that Earth is 300 million light years away from Pegasus. Yet in S2's 'Grace Under Pressure' it was changed to only 3 million light years away. It's silly errors & plot holes like this that happen once too often in Atlantis these days.

So I do feel putting in JM & PM in as showrunners for S4 is wrong. Atlantis has falling viewers, rising productions costs. They well may be competent writers if given the right story, but it needs someone with a real steady hand these days. Someone who has a vision for where the show is heading, rather than have them doing nothing since S1 other than bumbling into 1 fiasco after another, with a few 'comedy' eps thrown in each season for good measure. This I feel will come back to bite them big time come the middle of S4, when Skiffy headhunters comes lurking!

The stories on Atlantis these days aren't smart enough, in every ep it seems they get some piece of ancient tech, yet before the end of the ep is over. It's gone & the big magical reset button is used in the very next ep & they are back to going off on their next cock-up mission. The show to me nowadays has a more campy feel to it despite tptb & cast saying in interviews how dark it's turning.

The only good part was some of the character interactions between the team, Ronon making some jokes about his people. Then Beckett coming along initially to most likely do some tests on this unknown hero. However after he got there, they were used on Lucius instead. He seems to have more screen time as of late, which I would say was a good thing had I not already known what was coming for him in a few eps time. Obviously he's getting more time to make his

Spoiler:

loss to Atlantis when he gets replaced by JS as the new doctor of Atlantis in S4 have more of an effect with the fans & seem more dramatic to the show. Although it won't be long before the 'Jonas' or more lately known as 'Forded' effect comes into play with the Carson character & he's tossed to the scrapheap & never talked of again.

Which is a total travesty & another silly decision that will come back to bite them on the ass big time!

The only other scene that I raised a smirk at was the very end one where he got a kick. It's just a shame it wasn't an adult doing the booting!

Overall, 'Irresponsible', 'Irresistable', 'The Tower' & 'Epiphany' rank as the worst episodes of Atlantis to me of all that I've seen. What's worse is that most of these barrel scrapers were written or had some other involvement by these 2 people that will be showrunners for S4 of Atlantis...If your an Atlantis fan, it's time to be very worried indeed!

[Alipeeps]

Also in this ep, we see Ronon cannot punch the wearer, just like Grodin in S1. So seeing how Lucius was wearing it at the time, how could the Genni rejects even move him to the water, never mind be able to dunk this sumo into it in the 1st place. Surely when they went to grab him, they'd get zapped by the shield the moment their fingers made contact with him, just like Ronon half an hour earlier on in the ep. Totally inconsistent.

On this particular point I have to say, wearing the shield does not mean other people cannot touch you or move your around - the sheild doesn't "zap" you when you touch it (witness Sheppard's attempt to remove the shield in H&S) - it burts when you hit it like Grodin or Ronon because it reacts like a solid surface so it's like hitting a wall. You can still touch people and e.g. push them around - it's just that you would be touching/pushing against the "solid surface" of their shield rather than the person's flesh... hence how Sheppard could push McKay off the balcony in H&S.

[Luz]

Hi Ken,
thnx for another post.
I think most people here agree with what you are saying. Idea behind latest ep wasn't that bad at all. The problem is how it was done. And many of us are affriad this will continue in S4.

Please don't presum to speak for all of us, you cannot say what most people think unless you've talked to each and every fan.

As for Lucius pheromones, it was rape, he used a drug to take those women against their will, it doesn't matter if he put it on himself instead of their drinks. He had sex with them against their will, that's rape, he used those pheromones to make those people into his slaves, he performed sexual rape, mind rape on the people from that planet. That's not cute, that's not funny.

And now they brought him back, and what?, are we supposed to laugh because *omg* so cute?, he is the most disgusting SGA character to have ever been created, how anybody thought it would be a good idea to not only not punish him for his crimes, but bring him back and try to make him redeemable, it's past me.

My reaction to this character and those two episodes that were wasted on him is just I-don't-get-it, why?, why bring him back?, why waste Kolya's presence, his death on such a tacky episode?, why?.

[Wraith_Hunter]

On this particular point I have to say, wearing the shield does not mean other people cannot touch you or move your around - the sheild doesn't "zap" you when you touch it (witness Sheppard's attempt to remove the shield in H&S) - it burts when you hit it like Grodin or Ronon because it reacts like a solid surface so it's like hitting a wall. You can still touch people and e.g. push them around - it's just that you would be touching/pushing against the "solid surface" of their shield rather than the person's flesh... hence how Sheppard could push McKay off the balcony in H&S.

If that's the case then, why not slap them when they touch you. The force of that was seen earlier on in the ep when he sent them all flying. Just like how Ronon or Grodin felt when they were hit by it. Then the fact that the shield would protect against the liquid just like in 'H&S'. So he wouldn't get wet while using it. Still doesn't make sense!

[Alipeeps]

If that's the case then, why not slap them when they touch you. The force of that was seen earlier on in the ep when he sent them all flying. Just like how Ronon or Grodin felt when they were hit by it. Then the fact that the shield would protect against the liquid just like in 'H&S'. So he wouldn't get wet while using it. Still doesn't make sense!

Oh, I know there's still all the other aspects of the shield plot holes that have been pointed out - I was just responding to that particular point. The shield doesn't zap but does act like a very solid surface - so hitting it hard (like Grodin and Ronon) hurts, just like punching a wall would hurt, and being punched by someone wearing it hurts... just like being punched by a wall or hit by, say, a big solid wooden club or such would hurt. Why Lucius didn't just fight them all off when they tried to move him to the well etc, I don't know. We didn't see that scene happen. Maybe he lost his nerve and was intimidated by so many bad guys (he's not actually all that brave really, after all) or maybe they threatened the villagers - like the supposed raiders pretended to earlier. We just don't know.

[silence]

Please don't presum to speak for all of us, you cannot say what most people think unless you've talked to each and every fan.

Sorry, i didn't want to sound it like that.
I meant that after reading all the comments i think that most people wouldn't mind sort of character Ken described as villain, but the way this character was done and introduced (specially in last episode) was completlly wrong.

Double sided b****** that only watches his own interest and who you can never trust seems like interesting character... and if they did both eps in darker tone, maybe with another actor, it might have worked.

But, TPTB decided to go with this version and we can only hope they won't do this idiocy again.

Again, sorry for the way i worded my post, but i am still in shock... and i don't think i have to say why.

BTW :: i completlly agree with your whole post...

[Luz]

Again, sorry for the way i worded my post, but i am still in shock... and i don't think i have to say why.

Sorry I snapped at you like that, it's just that thinking about Lucius makes me angry, I'm just so pissed about this character, this episode, the waste of Kolya.

[ken_is_here]

Please don't presum to speak for all of us, you cannot say what most people think unless you've talked to each and every fan.

As for Lucius pheromones, it was rape, he used a drug to take those women against their will, it doesn't matter if he put it on himself instead of their drinks. He had sex with them against their will, that's rape, he used those pheromones to make those people into his slaves, he performed sexual rape, mind rape on the people from that planet. That's not cute, that's not funny.

And now they brought him back, and what?, are we supposed to laugh because *omg* so cute?, he is the most disgusting SGA character to have ever been created, how anybody thought it would be a good idea to not only not punish him for his crimes, but bring him back and try to make him redeemable, it's past me.

My reaction to this character and those two episodes that were wasted on him is just I-don't-get-it, why?, why bring him back?, why waste Kolya's presence, his death on such a tacky episode?, why?.

Okay, let me give you one more thing to think about:

If taking a substance to change your appearance (either physically or mentally) in order to get laid is a form of rape -- then perhaps we should start a letter campaign to the producers of "The Nutty Professor." Suddenly this innocent family movie is not so innocent after all. Shame on you Eddie. And you too Jerry!! (OH, and a screener of that bad Tate Donavon/Sandra Bulloch movie "Love Potion #9" had best be sent to the FBI for review as well) Also, the pilot episode of "Torchwood" has one of the cast regulars- yes, one of the "heroes" - using a magic perfume that makes woman (and Men) throw themselves at him. And he takes FULL advantage. But I've seen no cry of rape in that instance.

I'm really glad to see that the fans of Stargate are such a noble breed, really I am. But if you had a phermone (be it spray on, or a tasty beverage) that you could drink, that would make Angelina Jolie (or Brad Pitt - however your tastes may run) fall hopelessly in love with you -- can you honestly say you wouldn't use it. Honestly? Do you have that kind of self control? Because I don't think it would take a villain, or even an inherintly bad person, to lose their self-control when faced with this kind of moral dillemma.

Just some more fuel for the fire...

[Wolf Eire]

As for the idea of rape...just to be clear (again, this is only how I see it...right or wrong) Lucious wasn't drugging these woman -- he was taking a phermone that made him come across as sexy. Are we doing any less when we slap on cologne for a night out (well...I don't wear cologne, but...) or put on make up (Don't do that either) to make ourselves as desirable as possible? Lucious found a way to kick it up to 11 -- and which one of you could say you wouldn't do the same thing if you had that ability. Giving someone else a drug is one thing -- but altering the way others see you is another.

(I'm not saying it is acceptable..I'm just saying this is his justification.)

Mr. Cooperus,
That's pretty unacceptable. If I have a drug can surefire get women to sleep with me, ones who never would under any other cicumstances and would be disgusted once they snapped out of the drug induced stupor then it doesn't matter if I inject her, spike her drink, or slap it on my neck, I'm drugging them. The analogy doesn't hold up.

Also, how do you answer to the fact that the women of this village (single or not, even married) are portayed as horny nymphos who will happily sleep with this man (who you are portraying as an ugly annoying oaf) seeming as he just saved the village. A woman who clearly showed disdain for him earlier is ready to throw herself at his feet (literally) just because he saved the village that day. If you saved a beautiful woman on the street from being robbed do you think she'll automatically sleep with you no matter what you look like or what your personality is? You're sending out a very dodgy impression about women.

Of course when I say "you" I mean the writers, this isn't a personal assault on you.

[SGAFan]

I am so not the guy to be answering technical questions. I can't even get my toaster to brown both sides of the bread equally.

Who can? LOL

I have to say that I for one really appreciate you coming around and talking with us. In spite of all the passionate responses, I'd say most people would agree on that.

Thank you so much.

And I need to reiterate my disappointment that you are not going to be actively involved in season four. I think it's a big mistake, frankly. You have a great grasp on the Atlantis characters (especially Sheppard)

[SGAFan]

I just noticed something interesting that escaped my notice on first viewing of Irresponsible (yes, I am watching it again ):

The reason why Sheppard was so calm about the attack on the village and not bothered about letting the "bandits" disarm them etc....



He saw that the chambers of the gun pointed at him were empty. He knew right then that the weapons weren't loaded and that this was all a scam...

Apols if I'm being utterly thick and everyone else got that straight away!

LOL!! I didn't notice that at first, but you're right! Thats painfully obvious especially to someone like Shep. LOL

Good catch!