Vengeance (319)

[Tristen]

I loved this episode! Very tense and suspenseful and I really liked the way they shot it. It could've used a little more Shep whump maybe, but hey, I take what I can get

Anyway, I didn't quite understand why Michael would single out Teyla and would want to kill her first, since she was the one most empathetic to his feelings when they experimented on him the first time. Or maybe it was because of that. Maybe he felt more betrayed by her than by, say, Sheppard because she'd been telling them they'd been friends.

I also really liked the continuity in this ep. Mentioning how they've been keeping in touch with a people they helped out the year before is something they don't often do, and I liked it. And of course the clear references to 38 Minutes were awesome, especially McKay's "Disturbingly familiar."

Plus, Ronon's coming down on Sheppard was a nice touch.

Some things I did find a bit odd:
- When Sheppard and McKay are holding each other at gun shot, Sheppard tells McKay and Teyla to go to the 'Gate and that he and Ronon would be right behind them. McKay readily goes: "Okay", even when he knows Sheppard's got to be in some sort of trouble if he's standing face to face with Michael. Just found his readiness to leave slightly odd when in The Ark he made such a big point of we don't leave anyone behind. Then again, terrifying bloodsucking giant bugs can do that to you
- Minutes later, Sheppard's knocked down by one of the creatures, and the thing's obviously beating him. Ronon shoots the bug, and in the next shot Sheppard's already back up and running! It woulda been nice to at least see Ronon help him up or ask if he was okay!
- If those monster bugs were so dangerous, why didn't our team have any more injuries than a scratch on McKay's cheek? This ep was supposed to convey they were lucky to have escaped with their lives, but since the team barely had a mark on them, even after several encounters with the bugs, that effect was a bit spoiled. Of course the bodies of the marines were supposed to help in that department, but they're not the ones we watch for every week. A major character needs to be seriously injured if we are to believe these creatures really are as bad ass as they're made out to be. Grave danger equals grave injuries in my (whump) book

It's not unreasonable either in real life, or in a show that there would be little or no mention of a deceased person unless the situation really calls for it, and I've already stated my belief that the follow up of this should mention Carson, but this episode really didn't have a place for it.

I would have to agree with you. Yes, I do want them to mention Carson and to show us that he's still being missed, but it wouldn't have done the character or the actor justice if they'd only mentioned him once because of the whole retrovirus experiment. Although that was a great part of Beckett's arc, it was not what made the character so well-loved. I'm still holding out hope that the writers are smart enough to give Carson a proper tribute.

Anyway, great episode! Definitely an edge-of-the-seat one!

x Tristen

[silence]

Boring at best .. what with same setting three times in a row? Small corridors AGAIN? Big bugs .. they tried to soften this issue with Alien reference, but it only shows they have no ideas whatsoever ....

I was expecting much more .... my hopes for S4 just went downhill (if that's even possible) ...


blah ..

[sgeureka]

I liked the episode very much, especially for an episode where the whol plot is to run away from alien creatures. And wow, they're really screwed now. The overall theme of S4 seems to be to be screwed, so this is a nice lead in...

So, the SuperVolcano people... I need to watch Inferno again to fully understand what relevance this has.

Chuck the technician had some more lines. He even went into Weir's office.

Good quotes:

McKay: Maybe it will bleed to death.
Ronon: Or grow another arm.

(after an explosion, to Sheppard)
McKay: I think you singed my eye brows. Think you used enough dydnamite, Butch?!

Unimportant questions I had during the episode:

- Wow, it seems a little easy to just get the crystal thingie out of the Stargate, and no-one can dial it anymore... is it the same with MW Stargates?
- Is there a regulation on what officers can have as sunglasses? Sheppard's sunglasses (that he already had in Rising) still seem weird to me...
- Since when does Teyla have that new shirt?

Not too spoilery low-res cool screenshots from the ep:

Spoiler:

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Wow, are there any pics of the

Spoiler:

Iratus bug creatures

?

[sgeureka]

Wow, are there any pics of the

Spoiler:

Iratus bug creatures

?

There were only three kinds of non-human creatures: Michael, the normal (CGI) iratus bugs we already know from several eps, and the cross-iratus-bug-human creatures that look like the creature from "Alien".

[localfocus]

Ok, Carson aside this episode was gooooooood. Easily one of my favorites of the series. Fantastic pacing, good atmosphere, and just the right balance of character and plot. This is exactly what so many fans have been asking for. I adore that they dealt with the dubious morality of the retrovirus arc without being preachy. I love all the character pair ups. Finally, finally, Teyla and McKay get scenes together. I love him calling her my dear. Weir's guilt was beautifully played. I loved her expressing that to Teyla. I loved that she got to express guilt at all. I love that this episode dealt with so many emotions and didn't shy away from them. Love, Love, Love. Plot elements and character elements don't have to be separate things. They can be combined, and this episode illustrated it. Rodney was finally shown as part of the team and not this guy the rest of the team put up with so he could save the day. And they lost! No one won in this episode, they merely survived, and that was wonderful.

Now Carson is the obvious elephant in the room, he wasn't mentioned at all. Regardless if in a Watsonian POV you can show why in a particular episode mentioning him wasn't needed, his death emotionally affected the audience. From a Holmesian POV, this needs to be addressed in how the episode is structured. The audience is part of the writing equation, making them feel, bringing them up, and then bringing them down, and I don't think the writers know how to deal with provoking and utilizing the audiences emotions well. In last weeks ep it wasn't so much Carson not being mentioned that bothered me, I wanted his loss to influence the other characters' behavior. It was odd that it didn't because it made the characters seem OOC. In this ep he should have been mentioned, not by the team, but by Micheal. And he kept referencing "Your People" and not "Your Doctor" or "Dr Beckett" It glared a bit. Internally this episode was fantastic, from the overall arc of the season, it needed something to fit it in. Or like Submersion, be mentally placed before Sunday. I'm already reorganizing it in my head

Did anyone catch what McKay said in that "Ropes was why I got bronze instead of silver in . . .? program? I couldn't make it out.

But I enjoyed this episode so much. It was what I'd been missing since Submersion wasn't the great episode I wanted. So I'm willing to forgive since Carson is not my favorite character. Though I understand why others are bothered.

[Oka]

The "Tribute" episodes continue: Can you say "Aliens"? "Ripley?" I knew you could. DH nailed it when he said they were basically just running from a bunch of big bugs in this episode.

Talk about a let down. It was all, all, ALL set up and no pay off. The best part of the show was the first 10 or so minutes when there was real suspense and curiosity as to what had happened, what was going on? Then it was just "how many bugs can we shoot?" and Michael's lovely little bit of exposition and Teyla and Rodney's exposition and Ronon's exposition...

I do give them bonus points for trying to address the stupidity of the retrovirus arc by, *cough*yes, more exposition*cough* having Ronon say it was a bad idea from the beginning and then ask "How long do you want to keep paying for it?" Teyla's regret was nothing new; she's been the one who expressed the most doubts all along. But it fell flat here. Not to mention that lame bit of exposition as to where Michael got his Mad Geneticks Skillz. Instead of oh, maybe he picked it up rummaging through what's-his-name's brain for two days, no we, get "Maybe he was a scientist. One of their best. Like you." Which Rodney and DH properly ignored for the pathetic bit of writing that it was.

Connor Trinnear didn't even deliver this time; maybe the stupidity of the script got to him, too? He seemed to relish the role in the past, revel in it even. This time they could have had anyone beneath the makeup and it wouldn't have mattered. Flat, flat, flat.

This is the first Carl Binder scripted episode in which I've been sadly disappointed. Even without Carson, I had hopes for this episode, for something complex, something layered with meaning and subtlety, for something delivering on emotion and regret and determination and...gah. I could have and was willing to accept the lack of Carson if they'd delivered on all those other fronts--they had SO much material with which to work. But no, we got the "Vengeance for Dummies" edition instead, and a setup for a new, even more stupid bad guy after they nuke the Asurans.

This is what they give us in a bid to increase ratings? Teyla's cleavage and a bug crawling over it about sums it up. Chalk one more winner (loser?) up into the "episodes that are pitiful rip-offs of a damned good movie" column.

2/10

Couldn't agree more. What a let down.

[GateLadyM]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3..._teyla_bug.jpg

Well, that pic is enough. I've had it with Teyla boob shots. Doesn't that girl ever get COLD? Won't be watching this one.

[sgeureka]

^Yeah, but to be fair, when you're strapped to bed, a bug on your chest close to your face is much more menacing than a bug on your, say, knee. And since women tend to have boobs on their chest, that's where the bug is most menacing.

, even from a female perspective.

[FoolishPleasure]

^Yeah, but to be fair, when you're strapped to bed, a bug on your chest close to your face is much more menacing than a bug on your, say, knee. And since women tend to have boobs on their chest, that's where the bug is most menacing.

*LOL* However, it would be nice if Teyla wore a UNIFORM off world. Oh, wait, she did, it just happened to pop open. Too bad Shep's "uniform" doesn't expose his chest every week.

[Skydiver]

Guys, with all due respect to what happened last week, the topic of this thread is discussion of Vengeance, not how much is sucks that all the gang isn't there.

Please have some respect for those who aren't as upset by the changes and want to discuss the episode and maybe your airing of your issues with the lack of characters is better suited to another thread.

Darren warned folks this morning, I'm warning now. Please keep it on topic.

[DrBravo2]

"I think we should give Poochy more screen time. . . and when the other characters aren't around they should ask themselves questions like "Where's Poochy?", "What is Poochy doing now? and "What do you think Poochy would say?"
Replace "Poochy" with "Carson" and you have most of this thread.

[Karma]

Did anyone catch what McKay said in that "Ropes was why I got bronze instead of silver in . . .? program? I couldn't make it out.

Participaction. Or ParticipACTION, actually, but I digress.

It was a government mandated physical fitness program run in Canadian public schools during the 70s and 80s (and possibly the 90s). Rope climbing wasn't a part of it when I had to participate, but I guess they could have changed it before my time.

I found it ironic that McKay said that to Teyla, since DH and RL are the only actors of the "main four" who actually would have conceivably known what ParticipACTION was.

[localfocus]

Participaction. Or ParticipACTION, actually, but I digress.

It was a government mandated physical fitness program run in Canadian public schools during the 70s and 80s (and possibly the 90s). Rope climbing wasn't a part of it when I had to participate, but I guess they could have changed it before my time.

I found it ironic that McKay said that to Teyla, since DH and RL are the only actors of the "main four" who actually would have conceivably known what ParticipACTION was.

Thanks! I knew it was something I wouldn't get otherwise

[silence]

"I think we should give Poochy more screen time. . . and when the other characters aren't around they should ask themselves questions like "Where's Poochy?", "What is Poochy doing now? and "What do you think Poochy would say?"
Replace "Poochy" with "Carson" and you have most of this thread.

My problem isn't Carson, bu that we have third ep in a row with similar corridors, basically same setting and so on .... Ark, Submersion and vengeance ... what's the difference? ooooh ... there was Michael .... weeeeeeee...

i'll jump off the cliff since i am ill informed shrilling lemming ....


this ep was boring. period. nothing new there .... chenage Wraith Queen for Michael and what you have? 3x18 .... change that for _random_civilization_that_wanted_to_survive_wraith and what we have? .. The Ark...


Ohhhh ... this really gives great hope for S4.

NOT!!!