Sheppard needs to be demoted....

[npattis]

Actually, that would make an interesting story arc. If Sheppard was demoted/incapacitated to perform his duties, and Caldwell were to take over for a few espisodes. Sort of like O'Neill was out of the picture in Season 6 with the Tok'ra healing him from the plague. It would give time to let other characters shine, if they cut back on McKay.

[npattis]

P.S. Lorne just needs to be killed and Bates brought back. He is the most useless character ever to be brought into the Stargate universe. Indeed that would be a good episode, watching the Wraith feed on him for like 10 minutes.

[generaloneill]

P.S. Lorne just needs to be killed and Bates brought back. He is the most useless character ever to be brought into the Stargate universe. Indeed that would be a good episode, watching the Wraith feed on him for like 10 minutes.

i disagree with you lorne should stay and bates can go to hell for the way he treated teyla towards the end of season 1

[generaloneill]

If it would lead to character development for Sheppard, I would love to see him either demoted or threatened with demotion. Season 1 Sheppard was too much of a maverick to be SGA's CO and when he was promoted I was looking forward to seeing him try to marry his loose canon tendencies with his new responsibilties as the military head of SGA. Instead, we got episode after episode where he was either strangely subdued/compliant or where he was inappropriately getting busy (or trying to get busy) with the ladies.

I know his behavior has been called *kirking* (for ease of reference), however, in the second half of Season 2 TPTB had poor Sheppard out-kirking Kirk because whatever you may think about Kirk, no one came before his ship and his responsibilities as captain of the Enterprise. For instance, I can't see Kirk behaving the way Sheppard was written in the Tower because Kirk would have been too concerned about both his safety and the safety of his team to consider taking the woman up on her offer. I also can't imagine Season 1 Sheppard behaving that way either.

I didn't realize how much I had separated Season 1 Sheppard from Season 2 Sheppard until I saw Inferno. Sheppard was written as such an over-the-top sexual aggressor in this episode that I realized that this could be all that TPTB has planned for Sheppard. In lieu of character development, he's become the guy who gets the chicks and it's a damn shame.

A well-written demotion storyline (where there are consequences for Sheppard's actions) would have to delve into why Sheppard behaves the way he does and could be the first step to salvaging this character long-term.

i have to disagree with you about sheppard being a loose cannon and a maverick they are at war with the wraith so the fact that he is a loose cannon and a maverick is a good thing because he can make the tough decisions that have to be made during times of war and as for sheppard's supposed kirking 3 women chaya in season 1 the blonde in the tower and the scientist in inferno that's not enough to say that he has been kirking the women of the pegasus galaxy.

[generaloneill]

All I have to add to this thread is that if they ever did kill off Sheppard, I would stop watching. I enjoy the other characters, but Sheppard is what keeps me there. He's what made me watch. I wasn't even going to tune in to the show till I saw the preview shows where they were talking with Joe Flanigan. Then the ads for 'get in the gate' or whatever they were, with him and Sam, and I thought that maybe this leading guy might actually bring something good to the show. I've been hooked since then.

And okay, I have another point to add, I agree with whomever it was that hates killing off of characters. I'm still stewing over Frasier's completely unwarranted and unnecessary death. *still*

i agree with you about fraiser's death it was unnecessary death but at the same time it was a tragic death because she was a much loved character and the memorial service was my favourite scene of that episode my other favouite scene from that episode was when bregman finally got to interview colonel o'neill and he said okay first question and o'neill said ok then it faded out i liked that part as well.

[Deevil]

The thing about death in real life, it is unwarrented and unnecessary and that's why Fraiser's death love or hate it actally mirrored reality.

[ShadowMaat]

The thing about death in real life, it is unwarrented and unnecessary and that's why Fraiser's death love or hate it actally mirrored reality.

I find it incredibly ironic that when people complain about how this and that are unrealistic, they get chastised and reminded that, "Hey, it's FICTION! Get over it!" But as soon as folks complain about something like death or the relationships or whatever, they get chastised and told, "Hey, it's REALISTIC! Get over it!" Can't tell if it's the same people complaining/replying to both (or all) things, but really... which is it supposed to be?

Not meaning to pick you out of the herd, Deevil, but your post reminded me of that particular fandom quirk.

And yes, I know Stargate is fiction with a bit of realism thrown in, but I happen to have issue with which bits are fictiony and which ones are realistic.

[Deevil]

I understand where you are coming from Shadow. I have a quirk where I like a bit of realism in my fiction, and as much as I hate the fact we have no more Frasier, it was nice in a twisted and disturbed way to have someone we care about die - and stay dead.

It was just 'unrealistic' (sorry, couldn't thik of a better way to put it) that everyone we cared about had a get out of death free card, or was teh energiser bunny and never died to begin with. Someone had to go, it sucks it was Janet.... but ya know, it happened...

[ShadowMaat]

Mmm... yes and no. I agree that it's "unrealistic" for the core people to always come through (or come back from the dead), but while Fraiser might have been a good example of that, I think part of my problem with it is that she was ONLY used as an example. It was a "Hey, look, sometimes the good guys die, too!" moment, but it had no lasting effect. She was dead, folks were upset in the ep where it happened and then... that was it.

I really should start a thread for this. Or dig up the discussion thread from that old GW article about death and resurrection. Don't want to keep veering off topic.

Anyway, I think it would be realistic to make Shep atone for his sins. So there.

[Deevil]

Keeping on topic can be hard can't it - but just one thing, I agree we needed more fallout from the loss of Janet.

But Shep should have to face the consequences of his actions. Because on topic is fun!

[ShadowMaat]

Started a thread about death and undying if anyone wants to check it out.

On the subject of Shep, can we all more or less agree that he needs more depth, better character development, and maybe needs to be shown having to live with some of the decisions he's made and any fallout that may accompany those decisions?

Or is everything all puppies and rainbows and it's just a bizarre little subset who finds reason to complain?

[Deevil]

It's just the bizzare subset mate!!

[ShadowMaat]

It's just the bizzare subset mate!!

Shouldn't that be M8??

I guess that being the jaded little perfectionist that I am, I have trouble imagining ANY character to be 100% absolutely perfect with no room for improvement or change. Seems boring to me. But hey, if that's what floats your boat, M8...

(and yes, in the spirit of good fun I'm overstating things a bit)

[Lightbane]

Man, what is with the Lorne and Shep hate? Lorne gets far to little plot and screen time to see what kind of a character he really is two really good episodes (Conversion, Coup D'Eat and maybe The Lost Boys/The Hive) are not a great indicator of a character

Same with Shep they are overdramatisinig the character too much of this action stuff and sex over dramatises the character and makes him boring

Moments where Mckay manages to blow up 3/4 of a solar system are what makes a character (Trinity)

Sheppard doesn't need to be demoted or killed just toned down and made more realistic to his role

Lorne just needs a thicker plot line in the 8 episodes of Season 3 plot lines they have released theres only

Spoiler:

a small scene in "Sateda" where Shep and the team get captured by the Wraith and Ronon and gets taken to Sateda for "Runner" activities, Lorne says he will put together a strike team to get him back, out of the first 8 episodes of Season 3 Lorne is only mentioned in one

he needs more storyline or just more air time to make this really REALLY minor character a bit less meaningless, cus if its just to "kill" him what was his purpose of being in it anyway?

[ShadowMaat]

Lorne gets hated by certain people for the same reason that some folks hate Ronon or Jonas: they suck because they aren't someone else.

Yeah, there are lots of folks who dislike Ronon and Jonas on their own merits (or demerits, I suppose) and the same could be true of the Lorne bashers, although in that case I find it a bit... suspect that the ones doing the loudest screaming about what a crap character Lorne is are praising Bates unto the high heavens in the same breath. But that's probably a subject for another thread.

I'd like to be Shep held accountable for his actions. He's just as "guilty" as Weir in some areas and he has a whole raft of his own guilt where decision-making is concerned. Particularly in regards to the kirking. But TPTB will never admit that Kirk Shep is doing anything wrong, so that part at least is never going to happen. *sigh*

Just let him get an incurable STD or something. Please...