Sheppard needs to be demoted....

[Willow'sCat]

I think it's safe to say that Shep's detractors are a definite minority. Not that it matters too much since the most important thing about Shep is that he's TPTB's Marty Sue- their puppet through which they can live vicariously, fulfilling all their wildest fanboy fantasies, and they aren't about to get rid of THAT golden apple any time soon.

All my opinion, of course.

Exactly, and without a shadow of a doubt that was proven with The Tower *just my opinion of course* Sheppard gets to do what TPTB never did or what they have now forgotten how to do... *again just my opinion*

[IWantToBelieve]

*shrugs* It is very much an opinion thing. I've enjoyed Sheppard immensely all the way through season one and two. I think the actual writing in season two was poorer than one, scripts seemed rushed, ideas not fully conceptualized, big plot holes, but Sheppard himself has remained to me the character of choice. And I'm in the minority in having enjoyed Tower. It was campy, it was cliche, but I thought it was fun. Of course, I don't have any Chaya hate, either. Or Teer hate. So basically, I don't get the whole 'kirking' fuss but it's very much a personal thing. There are groups of people in the fandom with similar ideas, and a group for almost anything that someone might feel. I'm in the Sheppard club, firmly, and can only hope that the actual scripts in season three show more thought and development than many of them did in season two. But, even looking back at S2, I enjoyed enough episodes to keep me hanging around. Intruder, Aurora, Insinct, Conversion, The Lost Boys (but not The Hive - biggest disappoint for me next to Condemned), Coup De'tat, The Long Goodbye, Inferno and Allies, Critical Mass.

The only episode I'm feeling grudging despair over is the one with McKay's sister. To me, that's a terrible idea. Worse than Grace and Grace Under Pressure.

[ShadowMaat]

Exactly, and without a shadow of a doubt that was proven with The Tower *just my opinion of course* Sheppard gets to do what TPTB never did or what they have now forgotten how to do... *again just my opinion*

Yeah, and there are so many unpleasant interpretations of "do", aren't there? Especially where TPTB Shep is concerned.

[Avatar28]

Hey I have a life it is sitting in a small blue box at the end of my bed. As for the rest well I agree with 1 and 2 not sure I agree on 3 guessing you are a guy?

*Glances down* Hmm, yep. Looks like it. ;-) Sorry, I work 3rd shift and have been up all night and was stuck here late besides. I'm a bit goofy.

[Rodan5757]

The only episode I'm feeling grudging despair over is the one with McKay's sister. To me, that's a terrible idea. Worse than Grace and Grace Under Pressure.

This I have to disagree on totaly...Grace was very Carter-centric dramatic piece that taught us a little more about who *Sam* was, we've had the Daniel eps and the Teal'c eps and even the O'Neill eps (anyone remember Cold Lazurus), Carter had been very one-dimentional in my opinion.

As for Grace Under Presure...Besides the fact that we see McKay finnaly relize that he may not be smarter then Carter and that he is ego-centric and that we get to see Zelenka save the day (gotta live that guy). We get to see more of Carter then I even could have hoped on cable television. Yes, it may lower the show's standards a bit...but come on...so does Kirking.

[Linzi]

*shrugs* It is very much an opinion thing. I've enjoyed Sheppard immensely all the way through season one and two. I think the actual writing in season two was poorer than one, scripts seemed rushed, ideas not fully conceptualized, big plot holes, but Sheppard himself has remained to me the character of choice. And I'm in the minority in having enjoyed Tower. It was campy, it was cliche, but I thought it was fun. Of course, I don't have any Chaya hate, either. Or Teer hate. So basically, I don't get the whole 'kirking' fuss but it's very much a personal thing. There are groups of people in the fandom with similar ideas, and a group for almost anything that someone might feel. I'm in the Sheppard club, firmly, and can only hope that the actual scripts in season three show more thought and development than many of them did in season two. But, even looking back at S2, I enjoyed enough episodes to keep me hanging around. Intruder, Aurora, Insinct, Conversion, The Lost Boys (but not The Hive - biggest disappoint for me next to Condemned), Coup De'tat, The Long Goodbye, Inferno and Allies, Critical Mass.

The only episode I'm feeling grudging despair over is the one with McKay's sister. To me, that's a terrible idea. Worse than Grace and Grace Under Pressure.

I agree with everything you say here.
I've never had a problem with Chaya or Teer. Then again, I don't ship for any character pairing on the show, so everyone's free to snog who they like, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, that's as long as that's not ALL we get!
The Tower could have been a better episode, with some interesting ideas about the Ancient gene in it, that was a little disappointing for me. But, it was a light-hearted bit of fluff, that made me howl with laughter. As for Mara being a teenager, perleeeze! I don't think so!
I loved Conversion, Aurora,Coup, Inferno, Siege III, Intruder, Instinct and The Long Goodbye, and can happily ignore any little gripes I have with certain parts of these episodes. Sheppard ws great in all of those episodes as far as I'm concerned.
Butthen again, Sheppard is the series for me, though I love McKay too, but only is small controlled doses!

I have to admit McKay and Mrs Miller has me really worried too. Especially as Martin Gero said

Spoiler:

McKay and his sister are in the first act and a half just by themselves. Unless you are a die hard McKay fan, that's not going to be too thrilling. I hope to be proved wrong though.

Shame Sheppard doesn't get that amount of screen time and character stuff, maybe people could understand him more if we did?

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, speaking as a die-hard McKay fan, I'm getting a bit sick of the character. Yes, I love him, yes, I think he's funny and obnoxious and cool and all that, but it doesn't mean I want to see him front & center ALL THE FRACKING TIME. Ye gods. How about remembering there are OTHER people on the team, eh? And other characters on the show.

I'm not as leery of the ep as some seem to be (or at least not yet), but I'm not looking forward to it as much as I should because we already get so much McKay stuff I don't really see a point in showcasing him yet again.

It's possible to overdose on something you love and I'm in danger of that with McKay thanks to all the Rodney-heavy storylines.

[Willow'sCat]

I have to admit McKay and Mrs Miller has me really worried too. Especially as Martin Gero said

Spoiler:

McKay and his sister are in the first act and a half just by themselves. Unless you are a die hard McKay fan, that's not going to be too thrilling. I hope to be proved wrong though.

Shame Sheppard doesn't get that amount of screen time and character stuff, maybe people could understand him more if we did?

Well I am looking forward to being thrilled then. I think the argument about McKay is as old as this one about Sheppard and yes the same old people with the same old arguments... where have I heard that before?

[Deevil]

I love McKay to death... But I would like to see more of Teyla and Weir...

Which has nothing to do with Sheppard I know, but while we don't know much about Sheppards past - I think it's interesting that we focus on his development in the present until something acts as as trigger to give us more information.

Personally, I think when they were back on Earth and Weir was arguing to have Sheppard promoted, that would have been a perfect time to give us some info on his career. But it isn't a lost cause, and I don't think they are going to leave their lead flapping in the wind.

[Linzi]

Well I am looking forward to being thrilled then. I think the argument about McKay is as old as this one about Sheppard and yes the same old people with the same old arguments... where have I heard that before?

Well, I'm pleased someone will be thrilled then!
As another poster said, if you're a McKay fan you are lucky, coz you get it all. Well except him being with the hot alien chicks

[ShadowMaat]

Shep's TEH HERO, that's all we need to know.

Character development seems to be something we get whenever TPTB can't think up a "real" plot... and a lot of the time, it involves a woman (or, in the case of the female characters, a male).

It'd be nice if the producers could... oh, I dunno... integrate the character development directly into a relevant plot arc and NOT have it be about sex/relationships, but I have a feeling that's asking an awful lot. *sigh*

I'd like to learn more about Shep. I may hate his character right now, but if I understood more about him I might be able to change my mind. Unless he gets development AND they keep up with the kirking. It may not bother everyone, but it bugs the everlasting heck out of me.

And if he keeps up with the wooing of the sexy alien chicks, I'd like to see it have cataclysmic repercussions for the rest of Atlantis and for him to get called on the carpet for it. Demoted? Yes, maybe. I'm just vicious enough to want that sort of thing, but I'd settle for any kind of official reprimand and an order that he keep it in his pants or he WILL get demoted.

You can make up all the excuses you want to pardon his actions, but I still don't like it and I still think he should suffer for it. And if others have to suffer as well, so much the better. Maybe it'll be enough to shake him out of his smug complacency. At least until someone hits the reset button.

[Linzi]

Actually, speaking as a die-hard McKay fan, I'm getting a bit sick of the character. Yes, I love him, yes, I think he's funny and obnoxious and cool and all that, but it doesn't mean I want to see him front & center ALL THE FRACKING TIME. Ye gods. How about remembering there are OTHER people on the team, eh? And other characters on the show.

I'm not as leery of the ep as some seem to be (or at least not yet), but I'm not looking forward to it as much as I should because we already get so much McKay stuff I don't really see a point in showcasing him yet again.

It's possible to overdose on something you love and I'm in danger of that with McKay thanks to all the Rodney-heavy storylines.

My son is a die hard McKay fan, and feels pretty much as you do. Too much of a good thing gets old very quickly. He likes Sheppard and would like to see him get better storylines, and no, he doesn't think Sheppard is hot, and yes he gets annoyed with all the pretty girls throwing themsleves at Shep. He believes it trivialises the character. It doesn't bother me that much, though I can think of better storylines for Sheppard.

[Deevil]

Ohh I love the idea of other people paying for Sheppards mistakes. The drama and the angst - 2 of my favourite things.

Now that is something I really really want to see.

[IWantToBelieve]

I like McKay. I really do. I like Sheppard. Yes, Sheppard for me comes before McKay, but I love the McKay/Sheppard banter, the friendship - it makes the show very enjoyable. But I also really enjoy what Ronon brings, I like Carson, and I like Weir. The only character I didn't care for was Ford. Bates did what he was meant to do, Kavanagh I think was a bit OTT but there are people like that in real life so, not so much of a stretch, but McKay centric stories should *include* the team, Atlantis. GuP was great, until the hallucination kicked in, because it's been done before and even though I think there was good dialogue in there, it was just stupid because they've done it before. It seemed pointless. I did enjoy Zelenka and Sheppard in it. I hated Grace. It was boring. They introduce these bad aliens and we NEVER learn more or why or anything. And then we spend the entire episode with her hallucinations that do what? It didn't do anything.

Legacy was a good hallucination story. Grace and GuP were not.

I have no issues with stories taking turns with character focus. What I dislike is how they do the McKay focus. It's forced. The stories are created around wanting the focus instead of creating an interesting story and using it to highlight a character. That's where their problem is, at least, how I feel.

[maxbo]

If it would lead to character development for Sheppard, I would love to see him either demoted or threatened with demotion. Season 1 Sheppard was too much of a maverick to be SGA's CO and when he was promoted I was looking forward to seeing him try to marry his loose canon tendencies with his new responsibilties as the military head of SGA. Instead, we got episode after episode where he was either strangely subdued/compliant or where he was inappropriately getting busy (or trying to get busy) with the ladies.

I know his behavior has been called *kirking* (for ease of reference), however, in the second half of Season 2 TPTB had poor Sheppard out-kirking Kirk because whatever you may think about Kirk, no one came before his ship and his responsibilities as captain of the Enterprise. For instance, I can't see Kirk behaving the way Sheppard was written in the Tower because Kirk would have been too concerned about both his safety and the safety of his team to consider taking the woman up on her offer. I also can't imagine Season 1 Sheppard behaving that way either.

I didn't realize how much I had separated Season 1 Sheppard from Season 2 Sheppard until I saw Inferno. Sheppard was written as such an over-the-top sexual aggressor in this episode that I realized that this could be all that TPTB has planned for Sheppard. In lieu of character development, he's become the guy who gets the chicks and it's a damn shame.

A well-written demotion storyline (where there are consequences for Sheppard's actions) would have to delve into why Sheppard behaves the way he does and could be the first step to salvaging this character long-term.