The Hive (211)

[xfkirsten]

Hm. There's been a lot of, IMO, deserved criticism of the speed of McKay's recovery in the second half. I was thinking of how seeing McKay in Weir's office, apparently perfectly fine after nearly dying, broke the pacing when I suddenly remembered PM, I think, writing in his set diary that he filmed a scene with DH wherein he released McKay from his restraints. Was this cut for time? Can anyone find the text for this?

I think it was cut for time, yup. It was in the set diary in the Sept/Oct 2005 issue of Stargate Magazine.

"2:30 PM
On to scene 33. Post McKay freak out. I'm supposed to release him from the straps in the scene, but to be honest, I'm tempted to leave him there all afternoon because it's nice to see him still for a change!"

[andrelage]

IMO this episode could have been a lot better because the writers seemed to be rushing the episode between scenes. however there were some good points such as DH acting when he was on the enzyme.

[Yeade]

[Re: Missing scene of McKay's withdraw] I think it was cut for time, yup. It was in the set diary in the Sept/Oct 2005 issue of Stargate Magazine.

Thanks for the transcript, xfkirsten. We can only speculate as to the content of the cut scene, but I think if it were McKay badgering a reluctant Beckett to let him out of his restraints, get cleaned up, and report to Weir right now, it would've helped the pacing and continuity of that part of the episode greatly. Ah, well. Either way, "The Hive" suffers, IMO, from too much time compression--as I wrote earlier, I got the impression the episode took place over the course of nearly a week, and that is a lot of time to fit into an hour.

[bcfc]

A good enough second parter, Mckay being on the enzyme was funny as was Ronnan's never ending supply of knives. I agree that the escape seemed to easy, and made it pathetic when we didnt see Sheppard taking the Wraith Dart

[jonno]

Not that I didn't enjoy it, but one thing that grates:

Divided, fueding enemy leaders, with human slaves that worship them ... sound like the system lords? = ?

Still. I suppose it does make the Wraith more interesting. I just think it could have been made interesting in a different way.

The episode was good ... not great, but good. It had a fairly even split of scenes between Shep's team, and it was nice that at the very end Ford was more 'back to normal', helping defend his friends.

Rodney's recovery was a bit quick - I think you have to assume a 12 hour period in which the rest of the team was languishing in the cells, and Rodney was recovering.

[mancslad08]

Ok sorry folks this was pretty freakin' weak, made even more disapointing in context of the cliffhanger and the long wait.

The pace and flow was jarring and disorienting and the episode overall felt like more of a mish-mash of scenes than an actual continuous story.

This episode is also packed to the brim with the dreaded cliches and ridiculous plot contrivances that pop up to move the story along in those times when Atlantis sinks to its worst. Despite the massive influx of SFX it also manages to somehow be rather boring.

Ok lets run down the list of those contrivances and cliches I was talking about so I don't just come off as full of it.

-Door controls that make the door open when you shoot/damage them: Try this with ANY technological device, I dare you.

-The Wraith prison bars have gaps big enough for people to fit through, especially Teyla.

-What would happen if an SGC member lost their IDC because they were captured or forgot to use it because they were doped up on Wraith enzyme. Could this be a possible point of tension in the sotry perhaps, where the control room has to gamble on trust?.... We'll never know.

-Classic junkie withdrawl scenes from the evil drugs. Drugs are bad m'kay and every drug will have a horrible heroin like withdawl period. Yes every drug and yes regardless of what it does or it's chemical make up. You get your fancy pants science out of my science fiction.

-Sheppard gets saved from certain death at the hands of the Wraith queen because she gets a phonecall. It's never explained where she went or what she was doing. Did the other queen want to trade recipies, did that boy she likes finally let slip that he thinks she's cool? We wouldn't want to see any of that crap right. If we did we wouldn't be able to show Teyla sweating for 14 minutes and asking Ronan if they'd escaped yet.

-*Insert various scenes of Wraith hissing at people, bending their necks, bugging out their eyes and drooling for no reason here*. When Shep was talking about Wraith and clowns was I the only one thinking "seperated at birth?".

-The mysterious hot chick is not just a mysterious hot chick but actually evil! OMG unexpected!

-We learn that there's Wraith worshippers, how novel. We of course never get any explanation of why the Wraith need or want worshippers. I'm sure some fans will be able to make up a good explanation like usual though. That's what I love about Atlantis, the degree of audience participation in making the stories.

-Later on Shep's about to be eaten again but Ford, who was a twitching junkie wreck the last time we saw him, suddenly storms in, with Ronan's gun no less, and shoots an entire room of armed guards to save him. You know now that I think about it maybe you should of shown us Ford's miraculous unarmed escape from 5 armed Wraith guards while in a state of semi-coma and his re-finding of Ronan's confiscated gun on an entire frigging' hiveship instead of showing us Teyla and Ronan sweating. I'm just saying it probably would have been a bit more interesting, you know as opposed to the nothing you did show us. Couldn't think of a way to make it believable huh, yeah me either. Good to see that that didn't stop you from using it anyway though. The fans can go ahead and make up an explanation for it if they really want one right?

-As the episode draws to a close we go outside where we see Shep provoke the Wraith ships into killing each other by shooting a mile long hiveship with a dart's puny gun that barely sets grass of fire. The two hiveships start shooting each other as a result of this heinous attack and then one of them blows up and takes out the other one. Conveinient huh. They're like dominos, or those slime barrels in Doom. Of course even a 12 year old playing Doom learns not to shoot the slime barrels up close after he gets blown up the first time. I guess this is something the Wraith will need more than the alloted 10,000 years to wrap their heads around. If only they had some twelve year olds.

-Oh but wait there's more. In the roughly 30 seconds between the time Shep provoked them and the time they blew up he was able to fly to safety (never actually shown on screen of course) and "surprise" us later with his miraculous survival.

This entire thing played out as almost a parody of it's own ridiculousness. It would have been excellent and hilarious as a satire of sci-fi cliches had it not been trying to present this stuff seriously. It was though so that makes it cringe inducing.

Lost Boys was a good episode with some nice character development for Ford and a decent argument on behalf of using the enzyme. This thing just has McKay say "you know when you're under the influence of drugs you see the world differently, whoda thunk it eh, guess Ford's auto-wrong now huh huh" and that's supposed to be the wrap-up I guess.

This episode doesn't continue off of any of that good stuff that was laid down in part one and instead just opts for the SFX orgy approach. This is pretty much exactly what happened with Seige 1,2 vs 3. What gives? Is it something about the long breaks that allow the continuations of these episodes to develop dry rot or something?

"The storm" and "the eye" kicked ass though so what went wrong here?

This one fights it out for the title of lamest episode of the series with condemned and Seige 3 I'm afraid, and I think it's stepping into the ring as the favorite.

The Wraith chick was hot though.

Fantastic summing up, not that anyone here will listen.

[Silmarwen]

Fantastic summing up, not that anyone here will listen.

I listened...

[Pharaoh Atem]

i hope ford made it off the ship before it blew up

[Countess Wardour]

I had a huge laugh when Ronan was pulling knives from everywhere, including his hair!!!

[AdrianneP]

Fantastic summing up, not that anyone here will listen.

Oo man! I totally have to hunt down the original post and give that man/girl Green! I should give you Green as well for reposting the entire thing. Dead on and HILARIOUS to read!

Adrianne

[AdrianneP]

And man, I hadn't even thought about Sheppard & Team not inquiring after Rodney, when they came through the gate. They no longer had Ford with them, meaning they wouldn't know the address to Ford's hideout world, meaning that McKay should have been their top concern, once they were safe. Geez, these are the little details that don't take much time to write but make a world of difference. *grumbles discontentedly*

There was no time for such dialogue because Weir had to make goo-goo eyes at Shep and then glance at Teyla and Ronan in a "Oo are you guys still here?" kind of way and then goo-goo Shep again and then glance at Telya and Ronan in a "I really meant LEAVE" kind of way ...

God how I hate Ship.

Adrianne

[Spooks99]

Word, Ouroboros. Definitely a weak episode. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at some of the cliches. Double word esp. on the magical opening doors. Mainly I just had a problem with the Sheppard scenes. I don't think he could have been a more unconvincing wraith worshipper if he tried. It bothers me that the writers are making everyone stupid, Atlanteans and wraith alike. The wraith queens are telepathic, for crying out loud! How could she not see through Sheppard in two seconds flat? "Oh, uh, yeah, I'm a wraith worshipper, too. Really." If the writers were determined to go down that road, they could have been more subtle. The girl was pretty good--just the right amount of creepy that she seemed off, but not too obvious. They should have written Sheppard more like that--planting a suspicion in the queen's mind which he "reluctantly" and maybe a little defiantly confirms upon further interrogation. And don't get me started on the oh-so convenient mutual destruction of the wraith ships and the "suspensful" ending.

[PG15]

There was no time for such dialogue because Weir had to make goo-goo eyes at Shep and then glance at Teyla and Ronan in a "Oo are you guys still here?" kind of way and then goo-goo Shep again and then glance at Telya and Ronan in a "I really meant LEAVE" kind of way ...

God how I hate Ship.

Adrianne

Well hey, it's your interpretation.

[Serenity228]

Hi- I'm new so bear with me, but I wanted to say a couple of things after reading the whole thread (whew).

I think several people have vital points. There are some holes or discepancies in this episode, but every episode cannot be everything to everyone. For instance, if the writers wrote a completely tight episode with no plot holes that followed each character from start to finish, there would be little room for conversational banter. However, the more character development and back and forth joking or repartee that the actors engage in, the more the plot suffers. I believe that the writers try to strike a balance, trying to please the bulk of the audience. Let's face it, they've got to do what pays the bills and that does not always please everyone all the time.

I have also noticed that SG-1 and SGA have frequently been compared to Firefly, Farscape, and BSG. Let me say first that I love all of these shows, but they are very different. I let my children watch SG-1 and SGA, but not the others. Not because the other three are not fabulous shows, but because they have a different tone. They are darker and grittier. The Wraith are supposed to be menacing, but not on the same level as those disturbingly scary cylons or horrifying reevers. SG-1 and SGA, IMHO are striving for a wider range of audienence ages than the other shows. I wonder if this could be where some of the disappointment stems from?

I personally was not upset when Ford appeared hale and hearty after having been dragged out of the cell near death and seemingly placed in a cocoon. After taking too many literature classes, I have learned that one of the best literary devices at an author's disposal is leaving things to the reader's or the viewer's imagination. Honestly, we have all seen Super Ford in action. Whatever the writers could have dreamed up would have paled in comparison to our imaginations as to how Ford got loose and recovered the team's guns.

And finally, how cool was it when Ford came running in to save John, threw him Ronon's gun, and they both started firing in tandem?!? I'm sorry- that was a totally cool dual hero moment!

[OutThere]

I personally was not upset when Ford appeared hale and hearty after having been dragged out of the cell near death and seemingly placed in a cocoon. After taking too many literature classes, I have learned that one of the best literary devices at an author's disposal is leaving things to the reader's or the viewer's imagination. Honestly, we have all seen Super Ford in action. Whatever the writers could have dreamed up would have paled in comparison to our imaginations as to how Ford got loose and recovered the team's guns.

I remember idly wondering how Ford got loose when I watched the episode, but I think you are right. Showing Ford escaping would have ended up being just a predictable fight scene that took up screen time. Having him just show up tells us all we really need to know: he's tough, resourceful, resilient, crafty, and a wild card that should never be counted out of the equation.