The Hive (211)

[xfkirsten]

The way I see it, the drones are either not sexual---assuming they're not meant to be entirely sexless---or there are sterile females. Not to say that's how I think baby Wraith are made, but my pet crack theory about that is too long and off-topic for this thread.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm definitely thinking the Wraith are eusocial, much like social insects.

[Ouroboros]

Whew. I always get a bit nervous asking stuff like that. Glad we're cool.

Well, I've seen Firefly and---I hope you'll be glad to hear, lol---finally got around to watching BSG. Only the first few episodes of Farscape though, I'm afraid, and none of the others, though I've watched quite a bit of 24. I suppose I tend to take a more relaxed view of plotholes because I can usually retcon things and, simply put, because I see SGA as such a different show that it's difficult to make comparisons or hold it to the same expectations as I do other shows.

So, while I understand and share some of your frustrations about the sloppy plotting and unfulfilled potential, I don't mind it so much. So long as SGA continues to be about the characters I love---which I'm guessing isn't quite as important to you.

Ok I got it nailed down now. If you want to know what I want to see from Atlantis just wait till you see "coup d'etat". It's a wonderful, clever smart little episode with good credible badguys that actually seem like a threat and a plot that's both tight to the rails and free of holes but also twisty enough to keep you guessing. I won't blow it for you or anyone else reading this with actual spoilers but if I can single out any single episode that shows what I want to see more of in Atlantis coup is it. Watch that episode and compare it to something like the hive here and you'll understand my sourness.

As for those shows you're watching I left 24 off my list as a horrible omission but yeah I'm a junkie for that to. Farscape is a good show just stick with it. A lot of people get put off by the sort of fluffy feel of the first season but it gets way more intense in season 2 and especially 3-4.

Considerably more than 3,000 probably, lol. I've always thought that figure referred to the dart complement of a hive ship rather than the population.

Apparently that number came form some official source that's never cracked a book on wet navy ships and seen the crew counts on something even as comparitively small as an American aircraft carrier. To be fair though hiveships do seem mostly hollow and there's a lot of empty corridoors in them with a Wraith goon only ocasionally strolling by.

The way I see it, the drones are either not sexual---assuming they're not meant to be entirely sexless---or there are sterile females. Not to say that's how I think baby Wraith are made, but my pet crack theory about that is too long and off-topic for this thread.

I always thought the idea of noface females as sort of nurses/handmaidens for the queen had potential. The drone males are in charge of pretty much just fighting/hunting and the drone females tend to the hive functions and the Wraith young. Everytime we see a drone he's standing around holding a stunner so they don't seem to be good for anything other than fighting.

Besides, I figure the drones wouldn't be much trouble for the hive queen; so far as canon goes, the drones seem to only have enough psychic ability to access the hive mind, which would work in favor of the queen.

I wonder about how much sentience the drones even have. Is it possible they're just dimwitted puppets for the psychics of any higher caste Wraith in the area? Typically it's a human type Wraith leading a pack of drones but we have seen drones fighting what seemed like alone before. That's not to say that there couldn't have been other higher level Wraith in the area controlling them though. They probably have some brains of their own but somehow I don't see them composing symphonies or doing complex math without direction.

It should be noted that the queen in "The Hive" was pursuing a line of questioning that Sheppard genuinely didn't know the answer to. She wanted to know where Sheppard had gotten the dart and, honestly, he had no idea how Ford pulled that one off. She was putting the same kind of mental pressure on Sheppard as the Keeper put on Sumner though, but it was harder to tell without those echoing voice effects. Possibly her compulsion was the reason why Sheppard started rambling on about all he knew of the darts (and he didn't know much, did he?). It's also possible the Keeper was older and thus more powerful or that her position had more perks than hair dye.

The Rising Keeper's voice echoed all the time. Maybe that was supposed to denote her higher powers? That when she talked to you you heard her through your ears and in your mind? Maybe that's what it was intended to represent? She was obviously more important than blondie here since everyone got so flustered when she kicked the bucket. Another thing I've noticed is that all the recent Wraith haven't been using the Wraith hands from season 1 anymore. The one in hive didn't have them and neither did the girl in instinct. I thought that was a gaff at first but maybe they're just refining the makeup like they did with the Jaffa over the years. Cant say I mind as the old ones did look kinda silly, just like the giant snake helmets.

You know I'd also like to know where the Wraith keep getting all that leather from? Have you ever seen a cow in pegasus? Of course I suppose you don't necessarily need a cow, you just need something with skin.

[BigGator5]

The thing that was really cool about this episode, was the Wraith vs Wraith battle. That was just too cool!

[Yeade]

If you want to know what I want to see from Atlantis just wait till you see "coup d'etat". It's a wonderful, clever smart little episode with good credible badguys that actually seem like a threat and a plot that's both tight to the rails and free of holes but also twisty enough to keep you guessing.

Agreed.

Though I still had to retcon a few minor quibbles. A personal preference, though, and nothing that detracts from the episode.

Anyways, my point was that many of the episodes that were uneven in plotting had great little adorable character moments. I'd say your reception, then, would depend on what you watch SGA for: the plot or teh hawt cute.

For example, in "The Hive," Ronon pulling knife after knife from his person (from his hair!) was terribly endearing and pretty damn hot, but it also begged the question of why the Wraith seem to suck so bad at searching prisoners. Some focus on the former--and it helps if you're hopelessly in love with the characters--others focus on the latter, and still others fall in between somewhere.

I tend to wander about the middle of the road, in that I do find all the characters almost unbearably adorkable and thus can turn off my brain and be totally, unabashedly shallow while at the same time I'm not unaware of the plotholes and enjoy dissecting, well, everything. You, OTOH, seem to stick pretty exclusively to the plot.

Er. I hope you'll forgive me, but I don't have much else to add on the subject of the Wraith since I agree with pretty much everything you covered. There's maybe one thing I should clear up though.

The Rising Keeper's voice echoed all the time. Maybe that was supposed to denote her higher powers? That when she talked to you you heard her through your ears and in your mind? Maybe that's what it was intended to represent?

I was referring specifically to the one or two moments during the Keeper's interrogation of Sumner when her voice not only echoed like crazy but took on a range of deeper, more sinister tones. Um. I think the first was when she forced Sumner to kneel and the second when she got "Earth" out of him. However, immediately afterwards, when she questioned him about whether Earth was in the Pegasus galaxy and how many humans lived there, the heavy echoing effect and layered tones were gone despite the fact that she was clearly still mentally pressuring Sumner.

The hive queen's interrogation of Sheppard in this episode reminded me of the Keeper's later questions. The echoing and additional tones--what I figure is probably supposed to represent what Sumner felt in his mind--were not in evidence, but Sheppard was having trouble keeping his expression blank.

You know I'd also like to know where the Wraith keep getting all that leather from?

Who says it's leather?

[Elite Anubis Guard]

Well..that f*king rocked. Fantastic conclusion to the hiatus but Fords escape was a little disappointing. I really liked how Sheppard tricked them into attacking each other.

The development with the Wraith have become interesting, they've got slaves and worshipees now, as well as more fudal relationship with each other.

Looks like we've gotta figure out a new way to blow up Hiveships because I really don't wanna see the Daedalus blow up anytime soon.

Fantastic character moments for Sheppard, McKay and Ronan. Atlantis is proving to be better than SG1 this season.

[Matt G]

1. Yeah I knew that the cute brunette was dodgy but only because I'd been spoiled about Wraith worshippers and put two and two together.

2. McKay on enzyme was very cool...but he did get off it damn quick

3. Some nice tricks from Sheppard.

4. POints taken about Ford's escape.

Overall, solid ep, solid two parter but The Storm/Eye cleans it out!

[Flowerbud]

You know I'd also like to know where the Wraith keep getting all that leather from? Have you ever seen a cow in pegasus? Of course I suppose you don't necessarily need a cow, you just need something with skin.

They don't need no stinkin cows. They've got pleather.

[spg_1983]

You know I'd also like to know where the Wraith keep getting all that leather from? Have you ever seen a cow in pegasus? Of course I suppose you don't necessarily need a cow, you just need something with skin.

Its human skin. Its not like they dont have enough extra human bodies lying around.

[Ouroboros]

Anyways, my point was that many of the episodes that were uneven in plotting had great little adorable character moments. I'd say your reception, then, would depend on what you watch SGA for: the plot or teh hawt cute.

For example, in "The Hive," Ronon pulling knife after knife from his person (from his hair!) was terribly endearing and pretty damn hot, but it also begged the question of why the Wraith seem to suck so bad at searching prisoners. Some focus on the former---and it helps if you're hopelessly in love with the characters---others focus on the latter, and still others fall in between somewhere.

I tend to wander about the middle of the road, in that I do find all the characters almost unbearably adorkable and thus can turn off my brain and be totally, unabashedly shallow while at the same time I'm not unaware of the plotholes and enjoy dissecting, well, everything. You, OTOH, seem to stick pretty exclusively to the plot.

Ok I'll admit there have been a few times in the past where I've watched shows I probably wouldn't have otherwise watched just because they had some hot women in them. Well, watched in the sense of looked at (the women) while listening to headphones. In my defence though they were really hot. None of the women on Atlantis really hook me in that way though I'm afraid. For sure not any of the regulars. Teyla and Weir aren't trolls or anything they're just not interesting to me and I couldn't even tell you why to be honest. Even some of the guests like Sora that everyone drooled over didn't really sizzle my personal bacon. So I guess the decided lack of an Atlantis hottie for me leaves nothing but a big sour bowl of flaws for me to focus on.

I'm not locking myself into a policy though. I've seen the woman that plays those Wraith chicks without the makeup on and the dvd commentaries apparently say she's a Yoga instructor. There's hope if the makeup budget goes south!

I was referring specifically to the one or two moments during the Keeper's interrogation of Sumner when her voice not only echoed like crazy but took on a range of deeper, more sinister tones. Um. I think the first was when she forced Sumner to kneel and the second when she got "Earth" out of him. However, immediately afterwards, when she questioned him about whether Earth was in the Pegasus galaxy and how many humans lived there, the heavy echoing effect and layered tones were gone despite the fact that she was clearly still mentally pressuring Sumner.

The hive queen's interrogation of Sheppard in this episode reminded me of the Keeper's later questions. The echoing and additional tones---what I figure is probably supposed to represent what Sumner felt in his mind---were not in evidence, but Sheppard was having trouble keeping his expression blank.

Well I don't really remember anything that specific about the rising scene or even the hive one really so I'll take your word for it I guess.

I still got the impression that the redheaded one was more important so it's not too big of a leap to assume she could have been more powerful. This can also be supported by the wierd colouring she had compared to every other Wraith we've ever seen.

Its human skin. Its not like they dont have enough extra human bodies lying around.

Yeah I figured as much. I wonder how that works out though. Their feeding process tends to dry people out last crusade style so it's going to be hard to get useable skin from that.

[Elinor]

I enjoyed this episode.

Shep was cool, clever and funny! McKay was 'off-his-rocker'! Ronon and Teyla had a more dignified withdrawal..I love their scenes together. Carson was sweet and I loved the 'exorcist' line and Weir was lovely and concerned!! Foooord! Is he dead...will he come back?!! Hope so...Rainbow was really good as SuperFord!

There was a lot crammed into the story and some scenes I would've like to have seen filled out a bit more (Shep and the Wraith Queen. No whumping?!! I feel cheated!! ), but, at the end, I felt I'd been entertained and that's the main thing.

[Stricken]

Good Episode but it didn’t have me as hooked as SG-1’s second half opener as you knew that they would escape because they would be back next week.

The first Sheppard interrogation was weird to say the least, the queen didn’t seem to bothered about Sheppard only about where the “ship” had come from it did surprise me when she stopped and walked off when the second hive ship arrived making you think that she wasn’t happy with the prospect with sharing food with more Wraith on the next world on their “Round The Galaxy Culling”. In Rising I don’t remember the switch being thought activated, because when the Wraith Guard put Sheppard back in the cell he didn’t move his hand his head seemed to nod and the door closed, maybe an upgrade?

How many blades did Ronan have one him?? He seemed to have an never-ending supply of them, mind you the last one could have been the first as we cut away I had to agree with the thought that their escape had been too easy because it had, on a Hive Ship their must be hundred even thousands of Wraith and not one seemed to notice!

I didn’t clock on to the fact that this “human” would be a Wraith follower, I was taken in by the fact that she was still alive on this Hive Ship and she had yet to be fed upon, and as I am sure most people felt the same way. I started to think something was quite right when, with the team now separated and Ford’s grip on the enzyme fading and him becoming ill, with Ford removed from the cell Sheppard was alone with her and she was asking questions about where he was from?, what was it like? Etc and Sheppard did the right thing by saying “Lets get some sleep”

Well, what to say about Mckay, it was brilliant they way that DH was acting when he was going to take the enzyme but then he wasn’t, and then taking out those guards and the line “And that's what happens when you back a brilliant scientist into a corner!” And then the dialing, it seemed to go on forever, simply because he couldn’t focus on what he was trying to do, as he realized he was hungry, and then the walking around in the gate room trying to tell Weir what had happened to the others, all he managed to make sense was, Ford and Enzyme, lol this year has had some great Mckay moments and the TPTB seem to get great fun out of torturing him. During his scene with Beckett I was laughing at one of the lines, I forget which one, when I realized it wasn’t really suppose to be that funny but the way DH portrayed it was classic Mckay moment.

The “Wraith Followers” was taking it a bit to far in my opinion, I was thinking “what have the Wraith turning into the Goa’uld!!!!! But when you think about it, they could provide a good storyline in the future.

The ending of this episode was just right, Ford escaped comes in stuns/kills the Wraith with Ronan’s gun (what would we do if it got left behind??) saving Sheppard and who knows if he survived the explosion the outcome looks bleak but knowing Ford he will be back, he’s like the Terminator in that respect

At last we seem to be finding weaknesses in the Wraith, take a dart from one Hive, fire on the other and then start a fight, good thinking there by Sheppard, and I must say that the visual effects in this episode were superb, from the Hyperspace tunnel, which we haven’t seen before, to the darts fighting each other, to the Hive ships taking shots at each other, to the destruction of them.

The questions to come from this episode are:

Did Ford Survive?

Did the people of Edowin know how close they came to being culled? And will we ever get to meet them?

Great Episode, the special effects boosted this weeks ranking:

The Hive receives a S.G.C rating of 8 out of 9 Chevrons

[Linzi]

I enjoyed this more than I thought I would.
It was entertaining, but I felt too much was going on.
The Queen was incredibly disappointing to me. She wasn't intimidating like the Keeper was in Rising, maybe the red hair was scarier?
The interrogation scene was terribly disappointing. I expected more tension.
I wouldn't have guessed about Neera, but I'd read spoilers and expected that. I don't see how this epsidoe can possibly be included in Shep's hot totty of the week list! He was quite aloof with her.
I laughed at the clowns lines, I loathe them too.
I laughed at Ronan and his many knives (makes you wonder where else he's got some hidden!)
I liked Sheppard making the Hives destroy eachother - that was cool.
Negatives,erm a couple for me.
The Queen, as already discussed.
McKay's withdrawal was too OTT for me.Just seemed like an excuse to put him through more torture. Please PTB, torture someone else, for a change! If I see another freaking out McKay like that again this season, I'll scream! It started out amusing, but was too long and too OTT, IMO. Then hello? He's suddenly ok? Weird. Just didn't sit right for me. Why on earth didn't he tell Weir about what had happened earlier? As soon as he could talk I'm sure he'd have told Beckett to get her, or got a message to her, so that didn't make sense atall.
Liked Beckett here though.
The fix for the problem seemed a little easy to me. Sheppard makes the Queens distrust eachother and they destroy eachother. Obviously that's possible, but a little too easy.
Overall entertaining, good stuff, but could and should have been excellent,with not enough tension.

[Yeade]

Hm. There's been a lot of, IMO, deserved criticism of the speed of McKay's recovery in the second half. I was thinking of how seeing McKay in Weir's office, apparently perfectly fine after nearly dying, broke the pacing when I suddenly remembered PM, I think, writing in his set diary that he filmed a scene with DH wherein he released McKay from his restraints. Was this cut for time? Can anyone find the text for this?

[Linzi]

Hm. There's been a lot of, IMO, deserved criticism of the speed of McKay's recovery in the second half. I was thinking of how seeing McKay in Weir's office, apparently perfectly fine after nearly dying, broke the pacing when I suddenly remembered PM, I think, writing in his set diary that he filmed a scene with DH wherein he released McKay from his restraints. Was this cut for time? Can anyone find the text for this?

I remember reading that too. I think it was in a magazine interview. I'll go and check my stash, but I've sent some on to friends, so may not be able to help.

[Nel]

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I loved some of Sheppard's one-liners. I like how JF always has a smile playing on his lips when he says them. He seems to get a kick out of playing the mischevious, playful side of Sheppard.

I thought DH did a good job in this episode. Not so much in the addiction/withdrawal section, but at the end. The look on his face when he realised Sheppard's tactics to make the two ships fire on each other was brilliant. He looked so proud of him. Then the delight faded as he was faced with the thought that his colleagues had been lost. It was much more subtle than his acting earlier, but I think it was very effective.