The Lost Boys (210)

[Shep'sSocks]

Really? You equate drugging three people with the slaughter of thousands of innocents?

Since you didn't read clearly (or only read what you wanted to read) I said the analogy was a stretch.

Since I'm the one who read it, I don't think you are able to say what I read and what I didn't. But I am interested to see where I wrote that I equated drugging three people with the slaughter of innocents. Where exactly did I write that? Please point me to the post.

What I asked was, 'You don't think that turning people into drug addicts is harming them? I don't think it's much of a stretch.'

Let me turn that into a statement for you: I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that turning three people into drug addicts is harming them.

[Major Tyler]

I am interested to see where I wrote that I equated drugging three people with the slaughter of innocents. Where exactly did I write that? Please point me to the post.

Let's go through this step-by-step:

1.) I said that comparing Ford to a First Prime was a stretch...
2.) You said you didn't think it was much of a stretch because Ford drugged three people...
3.) The text of mine you quoted was in response to an anology that characterized First Primes as slaughtering innocents...
4.) Ergo, when you said that it was not a stretch to compare Ford to a First Prime because he drugged three people, you are effectively equating drugging three people with the slaughter of innocents.

Let me turn that into a statement for you: I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that turning three people into drug addicts is harming them.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's an entirely separate issue.

[Shep'sSocks]

Let's go through this step-by-step:

1.) I said that comparing Ford to a First Prime was a stretch...
2.) You said you didn't think it was much of a stretch because Ford drugged three people...
3.) The text of mine you quoted was in response to an anology that characterized First Primes as slaughtering innocents...
4.) Ergo, when you said that it was not a stretch to compare Ford to a First Prime because he drugged three people, you are effectively equating drugging three people with the slaughter of innocents.

Nope. Wrong. What I wrote is what I meant.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's an entirely separate issue.

Except what I wrote was precisely what I meant. That drugging three people is harming them. I don't know how many times you need that repeated until it's drummed into your head.

[jannagalaxy]

I think that this episode shows the danger of drugs.

There are many drugs in real life that kinda do the same thing. Make you stronger, faster. But can also screw with your head. Like what's happened to Aiden.

I hope that Aiden will see the light and what he's done.

Just my view.

[ShadowMaat]

Well, technically, Ford has been "slaughtering" Wraith left and right. We simply don't have a problem with him doing it.

[Tezzador]

Just wonder how on earth is sheppard gonna escape being fed upon?

[Jeyla4ever]

FCOL, provide an example of Weir letting her emotions cloud her judgement in this episode? Try for once to be objective without the blinders of your preferred ship get in the way. You don't like Weir because of it despite your protestations to the contrary.

Oh, and people can't be motherly and effective leaders? I suggest you say that to my mother and see where it gets you. She thinks that's an idiotic notion.

If I was in a leadership position, where my children would be under my command and I had to decide on the fate of their lives, I guess I would have a very difficult time choosing...and probably would choose my children and not think very objectively because I would want my children to be safe...Again, I can only speak for myself and for my personal experience with my own children....(Three boys to be exact) And if you could not see in the episode how strained Weir was about having Shep's team missing and how it did affect her decision making,then there is nothing that I can write to make you see this.... And I don't see your connection with my opinion of Weir's reactions in this episode and how you say it has to do with my favorite Ship....And if you read other postings, I am not the only who feels like this in regards to Weir's behavior...and I don't think you can claim that their reason is because of their preference of ship.....JMHO

Can't we just agree to disagree and move on, people! Is this not what these threads are for? For people to voice their opinions? When did this become a crime in here? FCOL!!!!!!!!!

[knocknashee]

Humourous...just saw an ad at the top for Detox 5 treatment...might have to save that for Tey, Rod and Dex...and Ford if they can get him to come back...

And FCOL, this is supposed to be a topical discussion, not a shipper's b*tch-fest...take it outside! And on another note, I wasn't aware that the topic title was 'Slag Ford off for all it's worth' either...

[blingaway]

Well, technically, Ford has been "slaughtering" Wraith left and right.

And now he's keeping them as livestock. Interesting situation there. Does the milk cow have a better life than the steer bound for slaughter? What would a sentient milk cow think of the dairy farm? At what point is the sentient adversary so evil that such treatment is justified?

[entil2001]

Let me just say that I hate the way that SFC promotes the mid-season break. Half the time, they call it a “season finale”, and other times, the more correct “summer finale”. Whatever the case, it’s just plain confusing to the casual viewer, and with so many SFC shows hitting the mid-season break, there are tons of people posting all over the ‘net about how it sucks that this is a short season. Thanks, SFC…for every positive, you manage to pull out a dozen negatives.

I say this because if I was only half-aware of how SFC does their scheduling, I’d be damned unhappy too. Not because the season would be half as long as it should be (which would be bad enough), but because this is not the best episode to end a season with. It’s definitely mid-season arc progression in scope, not the punctuation on the season itself.

I’ve been waiting for Lt. Ford to factor into the episodes again, and I suppose this is a case of being careful what I wish for. Actually, that may be overstating the case. This is not a horrible episode, and I think this is some of the best work Franks has done in the role. Giving the character this twist has been a real plus. I just didn’t feel the level of excitement that I had been anticipating.

I find the concept itself intriguing. Ford gathers a group of fellow enzyme-addicts into a berserker strike force and decides that the best way to prove his sanity and worth to Weir and Sheppard is to press gang Teyla, Ronon, and McKay into the club. All things being equal, if Ford were sane and rational, letting his old friends see his team in action wouldn’t be a bad call. Forcing Teyla and Ronon into the addiction steps over a rather obvious line.

The problem I have with this (beyond seeing so many characters becoming addicts against their will) is the principle of consequences. It goes something like this: if you’re going to have characters undergo terrible personal circumstances, there should be equally serious consequences. The way I see it, everything suggests that the enzyme is highly addictive, to the point that Ford and his gang see nothing wrong with “feeding” off the Wraith in ways not unlike the Wraith feed off humans.

Teyla and Ronon are quickly falling into the same addiction. As much as that’s becoming more and more obvious, I can’t help but think that there’s little to no chance of it being a long-term problem. Similarly, there’s the whole situation on the Wraith hiveship. All things being equal, none of them should survive, least of all Sheppard. But the fact is that we all know the regulars will survive, so the tension of the moment is somewhat mitigated.

The tone and pacing didn’t quite do it for me, either, but it’s mostly the fact that there are many issues that are likely to come up that, for many reasons, probably won’t. This season on “SG-1”, consequences are being delivered on a regular basis. I’m still waiting for McKay’s bad judgment in “Trinity” to have a long-term effect. I know that there’s still a second half and things could change dramatically in that hour, but right now, I have my doubts.

[Shep'sSocks]

And now he's keeping them as livestock. Interesting situation there. Does the milk cow have a better life than the steer bound for slaughter? What would a sentient milk cow think of the dairy farm? At what point is the sentient adversary so evil that such treatment is justified?

Feeding off them. Ironic.

[mgbland]

I hear lots of questioning of Weir's leadership ability. Hammond has sent lots of teams off to search for SG1 on several occasions. He has been known to call off the search, or be ordered too. I wonder if part of the reason for this attitude about Weir has to do with her gender. It's unclear how much time has passed. Also, Weir knows how Sheppard feels about being in the hands of the enemy. From the standpoint of security, it's important to rescue Sheppard's team before Atlantis's cover is blown. Being supreme commander of Atlantis , Weir doesn't have to call off the search until she wants to. I believe since she is in charge of when the stargate is opened to Earth, if needed, she can just stop sending messages until Sheppard is found.

On another thought, regarding the ops mission Sheppard and Teyla went with Ford's boys, do you think it's possible that Sheppard left a clue for Lorne. Since Sheppard and his team weren't too heavily guarded at Ford's base camp, he could have come up with a note of gate coordinates while he was in the bathroom or something. Ford's goons weren't looking at Sheppard too closely during the op.

[mgbland]

Just wonder how on earth is sheppard gonna escape being fed upon?

You wonder? She'll fall under James T. Sheppard's spell and insist on being part of his fan club. No female can resist those eyes and the rakish hair. Of course when she tries the first passionate kiss, poor Sheppard will faint, and later wakes up in the cell with the girl.

[ShadowMaat]

I've started a thread for discussing Weir's leadership abilities: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=18085

Hope that'll help folks here who are tired of looking at it.

[the.bah]

Why didn't Sheppard just take the dart through the gate, but instead of heading to the wraith ship, land and use that gate's DHD to get back to Atlantis?