The Siege, Part 1 (119)

[StarGate-SAS1]

just seen this on sky one, and it was a fantastic episode. It's the edge of your seat kind of thing. I loved it when grodin turned on the gravity, and mckay fell a great distance. It's a shame that grodin is dead though. I really liked him.

Now i have to suffer the torment of waiting a week to find out what happens.

i was also sorry to see grodin go ... he will be missed ... was he british? as he seemed to be able to speak proper english ...

poor old Bob ... shame he didn't last as long as Steve ...

Can't wait for next ep ... will be good!

[.:Lemon:.]

i was also sorry to see grodin go ... he will be missed ... was he british? as he seemed to be able to speak proper english ...

Yeah Grodin was a Brit

[mancslad08]

just seen this on sky one, and it was a fantastic episode. It's the edge of your seat kind of thing.

I definately wouldn't call it 'edge of your seat'. It was ok, to be honest I thought it was a bit slow for a season finale; though I'm sure next week will be faster (then again that's what I thought with Moebius and look at what a horrible episode that was)

[Crazedwraith]

Very very good episode...Poor Grodin He shall be missed and those last words: "I'm sorry" very good very dignified. RIP Gordin (though very small ones from the looks of it )

Teyla's attmept to telepath a Concious wraith and tell him you're doing at the time was incredible stupid and obviously doomed to failiure.

Very good though. 'Bob' was nearly so good in the armour as 'Steve' was in the a coat...

Bring on PtII.

[Matt G]

1. Decent ep that felt more like a set up than a finale.

2. Scratch 1 Brit!

3. I was dead cert Deadeleus was going to turn up in this ep but it was not to be. Dealing with Bob and the space platform still worked nicely though!

Let's get ready to rumble with part 2!

[WormholeAlien]

Woohoo! great Ep!

Me wants to see T-Rex vs. Wraith.

Can they drain the life out of a T-Rex? or will the T-Rex fill its stomach with wraith?

Poor Bob! hope he's still alive. um... and Peter too.

To all the folks arguing over wraith tech level vs. ancient tech level and saying that 1 PJ = x amounts of darts and there being hundreds of darts vs. a handful of PJs....

What about the glow squids? the outposts seem to be chokoblock full of those things. Atlantis should have had enough of those to rip through the wraith ships like anything. But then again, we saw in the first PJ vs. Wraith encounter Major sheppard fired 3 glowsquids simultaneously at the dart to destroy it in one hit.


But.... Super cool slicer beam on that ancient weapons platform. Very much like the Shadows' slicer beam in B5.

Sheppard's autotrust of Teyla is getting a bit annoying. Even though bates takes a lot of satisfaction on badmouthing Teyla, his suspicions are sound given the situation. She got taken over by a wraith in her last wraith comms attempt, she should be kept out of some things.

As for Teyla trying to go Vulcan with Bob, she forgot to say "My mind to your mind, My thoughts to your thoughts..." Thats why Bob got the upper hand.

Me wants to see Part 2!

[Anubis]

Brilliant episode.


This felt like more of a set-up to the finale, than Moebius I did. Much more. Great humour from McKay and Grodin at the weapon platform, great stuff. It's a shame that he got blown up, though. Perhaps he may have survived .. as it wasn't completely destroyed, just into small chunks. Good special effects for the ships and explosion, though.

Bates was GREAT in this episode, I was never fond of him up to this point, but I really enjoyed it. And then the little fight between him and Teyla, if only Sheppard for Ford hadn't arrived earlier. As for Sheppard always trusting Teyla, ok, I know she's a team-member .. but a bit too much, perhaps? Don't get me wrong, she's a great character, but being trusted so much may be a little over-the-top. Perhaps some ship development between the two?

Have to say, Bob was great, what a name. All those bullets in him, over, and over. I'm guessing he's dead, since he's not much use anymore.


BUT .. I'm REALLY looking forward to part two next week.

[Metarock Sam]

Oh my God they killed Grodin. Not only a good character but English one thats wrong . However I liked this episode. It rocked and Mckay was happy when Zalenka said He was more important.
What a name for a Wraith Bob. I liked Bob even though he died he had a neat Tatoo thing on his head.
Can't wait for next week and then I will have to be sad and not watch much TV for another six months waaaa

[smallgirl]

I agree with Anubis this was a great set up for a finale episode.
Unlike all the 2 part SG-1 ones that we have had I have high hopes for part 2 of Siege. With the SG-1 two parters I enjoyed the first part and then felt let down by the second. Siege part 1 was at a slower pace so you felt you were really building towards an explosive finale rather than having a fast paced part 1 that then turns into an anti-climax with part 2.

An awful lot happened in Siege part 1 but it didn't feel rushed.

I loved McKay and Zelenka's interaction at the beginning with Zelenka trying to get McKay to let him go instead by pandering to his ego about being indispensable to Atlantis. The parting between them with McKay asking Zelenka to look after Atlantis and Zelenka wishing McKay luck was lovely. I always enjoy the banter between Zelenka and McKay because they annoy each other ( especially McKay annoying Zelenka) but clearly are good friends and think a lot of each other. McKay was also great with Grodin. I am so gutted about Grodin's death. I am glad they gave us some real quality Grodin time first and had him die heroically but it just makes me miss him even more.

Weir was good in this episode as well. It was good to see her working with Zelenka to try and salvage some Ancient info from Atlantis. It all looks pretty hopeless but Weir is behaving as a leader should by trying to think of as many options to try and achieve success as possible and trying to be positive for those under her command. Her conversation with Halling about destroying Atlantis so it didn't fall into the hands of the Wraith was interesting. For a diplomat, she can be quite undiplomatic when it comes to the Athosians. I think there was more that she could have said to try and make him see things from her perspective. However like in 38 minutes when she shut him down in regard to Teyla facing death on the trapped PJ, she is on a limited timescale with big life/death decisions to make and she clearly hasn't got the time to debate Athosian beliefs with him. One of the things I really enjoy about SGA is how often situations arise where I can see both sides to the argument. I like that SGA doesn't resolve these things straight away. They leave it up to the audience to then debate at leisure what should have been said or what should have happened in any given situation.

This was also the case with the Teyla/Bates situation. I understand why Teyla would hate not being trusted and feel personally insulted that she was accused of unwittingly giving information to the Wraith. However Bates was correct to be concerned and it is his job at the end of the day to be the pain in the ass who puts security ahead of people's feelings. Sheppard and Ford both acknowledged that as Teyla isn't in control of what happens and because they all still don't know exactly how the link works it's possible that the Wraith could access her mind without her knowing. I wasn't keen on the way Bates approached Sheppard about his concerns and his attitude towards him. Bates acted unprofessionally in regard to how you speak to a superior officer but Sheppard is partly at fault because he has been unprofessional in the past in dealing with Bates as his subordinate. Bates and Sheppard seem destined to continually butt heads where Teyla is concerned ( if Bates is okay that is). I don't see Sheppard's defence of Teyla as an indication of any possible 'romantic' feelings towards her. I see it as that he has decided to trust her and have her as part of his team and he doesn't like his authority questioned in this matter. I also thought Bates was out of line with how he handled Teyla striking him. She shouldn't have hit him but the fact that Ford had to hold him back from retaliating and then he started wagging his finger at her and making threats was not appropriate for a chief of security. All this however, like the Weir/Halling discussion, is a indication of how the impending doom at the hands of the Wraith is making everyone at Atlantis very on the edge. They are showing signs of normal human emotional frailty whilst still getting the job done.

That leaves me with Sheppard and 'Bob'. Poor Bob didn't last long but he was enjoyable whilst he lasted. I think letting Teyla try to access his mind was very dangerous. Under monitored conditions in the infirmary with the Wraith light years away she couldn't control things and yet they let her try it face to face with a Wraith? The result only showed how right Bates was earlier to be concerned about things. It then ended with Sheppard shooting 'Bob' in cold blood, whilst he was a prisoner of war with Ford telling him that he had gone too far. I don't think anyone is more on the edge in Atlantis than Sheppard himself. I can still see this situation from both sides like all the others but morally speaking Sheppard shouldn't have killed a P.O.W.

SG-1 has dealt with military moral dilemas often enough but I always found their approach more clear cut. SGA feels darker.

[Funkmeister]

I dunno if the wraith would even count as POW's. They aren't human, and they're pure evil. Shooting him was probably a good idea. As Sheppard said in an earlier episode (poisoning the well, I think) "if the wraith had been at the Geneva Convention, they would have eaten everyone."

[Major Tyler]

I dunno if the wraith would even count as POW's. They aren't human, and they're pure evil. Shooting him was probably a good idea. As Sheppard said in an earlier episode (poisoning the well, I think) "if the wraith had been at the Geneva Convention, they would have eaten everyone."

You know, I don't buy that the Wraith are pure evil...they're just hungry. How friendly would you be to your hamburger.

[Major Clanger]

We had the discussion about attitudes to other species in Pretence (was it?) way back when in Stargate, when lord Zippy made the comment that we aren'T actually humane to pigs (I think it was pigs)

The Wraith treat humans as badly as we treat cod. In fact, i reckon that if Atlantis were to be broadcast in the North Sea the cod would all be rooting for Steve, Bob and their buddies.

Anyhooooo on to the ep.

Liked this one a lot. And not for purely shallow reasons either.

Let me get The Big Bates Thing (big for me, anyway) out of the way. Bates, for me, is one of the very few military characters in any tv show (sci-fi or otherwise) who actually behaves like a really professional member of the military. I get so mad when I see people criticising him and ripping him apart (on boards) because he "disagreed with Shep". Sure, Major Shep is about as edible as it gets if you're not the Deppster, but even so: he is a human character and he has flaws.

I love Shep's flaws. I adore that he has flaws. But I wish Bates would be given more credit than he gets. He is, IMO, 100% totally and completely and utterly right about Teyla. Something, I have to say, that I have been bugging Mr. MC about since her silly necklace was broadcasting to the Wraith, and have been positively fizzing with since her little mindmeld thingy.

I don't care about her character at all, btw, the writers haven't done a good job in making me care one jot about her. She is an annoying girly, who isn't even enough of a good leader to her people to stay with them, or delegate someone to lead in her place.

But I digress, because I can live with the 2d Teyla that we have.

Fantastico that Shep nearly ate the face off her after the Bates thing, and sent her to her room.

How fab was Dr.Z? (oh, and he did not say that Rodders was cleverer - more clever? - than him) I think he could get to be one of the truly fantastic characters in any show, but certainly in this one. I hope his character expands more and more (I have some candidates for who could get less and less...) I loved the way he and Rodders were sniping at each other, like an old married couple who are worried about each other.

On to some more stuff about the ep. Nice one that the Wraith could hide for 2 weeks. I still don't think we are getting anything like near enough of the scale of the city though. could someone hide in Manhattan for 2 weeks? you bet they could. (How many are on Atlantis anyway? from Earth I mean)

Not going to comment on Weir at all, I wouldn't mind if she vanished one day.

Sad that they killed a character though, but yipppppeeeeee that we (hopefully, since nobody in Sci-fi is ever truly dead unless you see the body, and even then not always) do not have to put up with that silly approximation of an English accent. Get some Yorkshirpersons on there for goodness sakes.

And the shots of the jumper docking onto the satellite were fab. I deffo want one of those.

Right, I'm rambling and ranting so I'll push off.

And I know I sound pretty negative, but I really would give this four and a half out of five.

[ShadowMaat]

I didn't like Bates when we saw him in Suspicion, but I've liked him ever since. However, I found his behavior in Siege 1 a little aggravating. I agree 100% about his complaints, but I think he was a little outrageous in his behavior... and when you look back, the guys who wrote suspicion also helped on Siege 1. *sigh* I can see how people wouldn't like him, it's BECAUSE of the (IMO) extremity of his reactions in eps like Suspicion and Siege 1, but the rest of the time, he's a great, solid character who manages to communicate his suspicions without seeming overly rabid. I hope we'll see more of him in S2. Alive and well.

I could care less about Teyla. I find her tedious and vastly uninteresting. Every time she opens her mouth, I'm annoyed. But she's the Sexy Female Alien of the show, so she isn't going anywhere. *sigh*

As fo Zelenka, he's awesome. And just because I'm a glory hog, I'll mention here, too, that I've put a Zelenka-centric plot bunny up for adoption, if anyone wants to go take a look.

[smallgirl]

Let me get The Big Bates Thing (big for me, anyway) out of the way. Bates, for me, is one of the very few military characters in any tv show (sci-fi or otherwise) who actually behaves like a really professional member of the military. I get so mad when I see people criticising him and ripping him apart (on boards) because he "disagreed with Shep". Sure, Major Shep is about as edible as it gets if you're not the Deppster, but even so: he is a human character and he has flaws.

Major Clanger I totally agree that it is wrong to take offence at Bates for disagreeing with Sheppard and upsetting Teyla when the guy is just doing is job. I do hope Bates recovers from his injuries because Atlantis needs him. They need a security chief who is prepared to express legitimate concerns about safety even if it means upsetting people and questioning a senior officer's judgement. However my objection to Bates in this ep and in the past is not what he says and whether it is right for him to express his opinion, because clearly that's what his position requires but it's more the way on occasion he has chosen to go about it. As previously mentioned, I think it's partly Sheppard's fault. Sheppard is too quick to shut Bates down when he doesn't agree with him and that makes Bates frustrated. Bates sometimes doesn't show the right respect to Sheppard because Sheppard doesn't show the right respect to Bates. In HZ, Bates disobeyed Weir in order to obey an order from Sheppard because Sheppard is his military CO and because I believe Bates thought Sheppard was correct in his decision regarding base security. Sheppard doesn't seem to have taken that into account in his handling of Bates since. It should have shown Sheppard that Bates while not always having the most appealing manner does have his head screwed on and is conscientiously doing his utmost to fulfill his duty to protect Atlantis and it's staff. I liked in HZ that Bates apologised to Weir after disobeying her, there was not real necessity to do that, he genuinely felt bad about undermining her authority. His doing that showed to me that he respects her, despite not always agreeing with her decisions and maybe possibly not being fully confident in her because she is a civilian. I believe this is because Weir respects him and recognises the job he has to do. Like with what you said about Sheppard having flaws, Bates does too and I like both characters because it makes them believable.

I didn't mention before, but thinking about Bates and having seen Siege 1 again today, I was really impressed with Ford. Ford was showing quite a lot of maturity and sense in this episode. He didn't have the answers but he was asking the right questions and being thoughtful and controlled in his approach to situations. He expressed his concerns about Teyla to Sheppard and Weir and Teyla herself whilst trying really hard to be respectful to all. I liked that Weir asked his opinion because she could see his discomfort and knew he wasn't 100% in agreement with Sheppard but didn't want to contradict him in front of her. Even when Ford wasn't saying anything in this episode you could see him really thinking whilst everything was going on around him and taking it in and evaluating the situations.

[joanne1138]

You know, I'm in the UK and I actually know people who talk like Grodin. I have a friend with practically the same accent and apparantly most of the people in her village talk like that too. It's actually kind of freaky.

And the bunny, the wonderful bunny! Go see the bunny. Sorry, I reeeaaally want someone to write it.

And I like Bates too. Especially in Letter from Pegasus. Not so much in Suspicion and this eppy.